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Hello, for the people who can play scales up to 140 - 160bpm + in 16th notes. How long did it take you to reach that skill and what practice methods got you there? I really want to improve my scales and be able to play them at this speed one day but it gets very discouraging going to the piano and seeing very small improvement if any at all even though weeks have passed. Thanks
Very good point and yes actually I have taken all of this into account and have found and been taught different positions and motions but scales are still a problem because my weaker fingers just do not respond as I want them to in higher speeds, it is as if even using the correct positions and motions is not enough unless you have 'finger strength' or whatever you want to call it. I am taking my fingers to their notes but at my max tempos my weaker fingers either stop or call for tension in order for them to move. :/
Do you have a teacher? How responsive or heavy is you piano action? Do you try to play in a same way in higher speeds and maintain legato touch even if you really don't need to anymore? After some point you just cannot make it faster anymore by just practicing the same way over and over again. And different hands may need different solutions.
Not everyone is in a position to have a teacher unfortunately lol and that goes for the pianists that have great scales who never had a teacher too. I'm unable to have a teacher right now and my piano action is heavy
Well, you may have partly answered your question there. Heavy action and not naturally strong fingers is not an easy combination. I am not judging you for not having a teacher, it just means you may not be given some of the information on how to get over the speed threshold.Not all hands are equal to playing the piano. With ideal hands one may get to fast scales more easily even without a teacher. For others there's more problem solving involved and another (more experienced) set of brains just can be useful
There's an excellent post by Bernhard that explains the principles behind fast scales. Try to find that one. It talks about the four necessary mechanics and some tips for improving them.Also, you have to get used to speed, and that means not doing some things that inherently limit it. Hands together is slower than hands separate. Four octaves is slower than 3, than 2, than 1, than 5 notes, than a simultaneous drop (there's a term for that but I forget.)
I wonder if the only thing stopping me from playing scales better is my motions
Obviously Isn't the issue here how to learn and be able to excute those better motions? What works for one may not work for another.Finger strength can mean different things. Some people lack stability in certain fingers due to structural issues and hypermobility. For that the answer is how to compensate. Sometimes there's lack of control that can be practiced in many ways such as finger exercises.
Thank you outin, feeling a little more encouraged now. The thing is, I have practiced exercises that I believe without good finger strength and independence, it is not possible. For example holding 5 scale degree notes down just say the first 5 notes of the C Major scale, and lifting individual fingers to play their notes without any disturbance or movement from the other fingers, even Paul Barton who is a fantastic virtuoso of the piano said this exercise might look easy, but it's not. And I can do it with ease now pretty much lol. I also went further and made very difficult exercises out of this. Exercises that actually give the sensation to the fingers of when you hit your funny bone, it is very uncomfortable and I used to not be able to do this, but now I can. And as far as I'm concerned I made that exercise up for myself and have never seen anybody else doing it although I'm sure someone out there has also landed on it.
What you are describing is nerve irritation which imo is unhealthy and should have no place in piano training. That can happen with finger indepence exercises such as you describe. I doubt those will help with scales. With finger exercises I was referring to something quite different, something to help built agility and control without strain. It really doesn't matter if it's hanon, trill exercises or something self invented. What matters is how you execute. Not as forced finger lifting exercises.
I know it sounds dangerous and if done incorrectly it would be but I am aware of that and have no damage, I'm saying is that for me I'll have to say that my playing has improved greatly and weaker fingers are much stronger, even in terms of playing thirds with the weaker fingers, I don't think that in all of piano technique there will never be some sort of uncomfortable feat to pass only with effort and practice. I have no damage and my technique is the best it has ever been. Paul Barton also mentioned the temporary ache of wrists when learning chopins 25/1 or 28/24 but that he can assure you it will pass over with time and he is a virtuoso! DDo you have any agility exercises in mind? What are your scales like?
Well, if a virtuoso says so it must be true! Just a friendly warning: Some aches are harmless and passing but some may be a sign of beginning permanent damage. The rare times I do finger exercises it's either from Hanon or something I just make up myself. I don't care much for practicing scales unless needed for pieces. I find them too boring.
The issue with this idea of "weaker" fingers in otherwise non-pathological hands, is that it's almost always because one hasn't experienced what it means to balance on the piano 100% of the the time.Every sensation of supposed weakness is actually because they have a broken "fulcrum" somewhere and aren't aligned. Let's take a look at the issue of "collapsed knuckles" for instance. There's a net forward balance that has to be maintained when at the piano that is felt from the forearm. Those knuckles as well as the wrist are the fulcrums from which this is sensed. [Note the implications of different lengths required by this forward balance: In terms of say moving from finger 3 to 4 (a "weaker" finger) that means you have to feel the sensation of moving "in" and forward from the forearm relative to where you were from the 3. ]It's not a piano video, and exaggerated for effect (and also because she is standing) but it makes this easier to see:&t=73It's also a matter of coming from top, knowing that the level of the hand/wrist is at the correct "height" so that there is enough room to allow your fingers to flex from the knuckles.Having to "regenerate" it, if you land too low is incorrect and leads to collapsed knuckles. It's already too late. Trying to fix collapsed knuckles due to supposed missing strength in the fingers doesn't solve the underlying cause of mistiming your actions.Another thing to note from the video is that fingers and hands are being opened up indirectly through active movement of the forearm (and the intrinsic structural features of the hand), and not through the direct control through the muscles that control the fingers. In other words, there's a whole world of exploration of how the fingers can be used unrelated to finger independence that gives the illusion of independence.
Thank you, so when trying this with the C Major scale, it seems fairly straight forward but when applying this to scales like C minor or D Major, the motion no longer works anymore, for example the 3rd on a white key of B then the 4th in C# which is of course is a black key and higher up key which would compensate certain distance of finger and then the 5th on D, what sort of motion is needed here? Because it seems that there is a large raise from the B to the C# black note with 3 and 4 and then suddenly a huge drop for the C# black key to the 5th finger on the white key of D
There's an excellent post by Bernhard that explains the principles behind fast scales. Try to find that one. It talks about the four necessary mechanics and some tips for improving them.
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Topic: Scales 