Feel like a charlatan?

[Ludvig_Van_Me]

Coz I do,


This topic is inspired by comments in the "Ooh, can you play FotB?" *Slap*  thread.


Sometimes I feel the only skill I have is long fingers and alot of time on my hands(no pun intended)   of and a good mental imagery and memory.

I do have long fingers; an octave and 2 notes is no problem, an octave and 3 is pusing it, but possible.

If someone says "can you play", "Oh i have the music for- play this"

Saying "no, my sight reading isn't that good" or "no i dont know that", doesn't really make me feel like a competent pianist.

Sure I can pretty much play what I like but thats not really enough, id trade in my Freakishly long fingers for the ability to have the piano part of my being not a struggle.






Warning, long finger joke:  What do you call a lesbian with a long finger?


Well hung.

[donjuan]

yeah, I know exactly what you mean about feeling like a charlatan... I dont play for people anymore, it makes me feel funny.  and not funny haha but more funny strange.Especially since I like Liszt so much.  and I dont play very well so I probably come off as some abraisive showoff type who thinks he's everything because he attepts tough stuff but Im really not; Im 100% in it for the music..

and one of the other reasons why I dont play for people is because they might go and talk to others about my pretentious performance and Im sure they will use words to make me seem so smug..

btw, lol@lesbian joke

donjuan

[Bob]

alternative punchline answer:  Single.    (That's the answer I've always heard anyway.  No offense to anyone reading out there.  It's just what I heard.)

I agree.  There are a lot of skills of being a musician.  Traditional piano lessons definitely emphasize preparing pieces, not sight-reading so much necessarily.  I remember the realization that I really couldn't sight-read very well.  And also the realization that I didn't know if I was able to prepare a certain piece in a certain amount of time.  I'm sure there's more about it on here.  I've worked on it a little and have gotten a lot better at it.  You just have to accept a lower level of performance when sight-reading.  It's a very different skill.

It also reminds me of the phrase, "Don't judge a book by its cover."  When I hear a student performer playing something really difficult, I might wonder, "How long have they been working on that?"  "Do they have basic music skills?"  "What else can they do?"  I heard a little kid once playing a difficult piece, a concerto -- sounded really good for the kid's age, not perfect but probably beyond what I could play at the time.  Turns out that was all the kid could play -- He didn't know theory, couldn't sight-read at all, etc.  It was kind of said.  He had a kind of parent/'trainer.'  I would guess that kid had been working on just that piece his whole life.  I think he was about seven years old.

[Ludvig_Van_Me]

I didn't get your alternative punch line for a bit, I thought "but if she had a long finger she'd get loads of girlfriends"  then it hit me, lol good one.


Back to the point,  yes I feel like that 7 year old boy.

All ive got is finger muscle memory like that boy.


I have nightmares about being at a party or something and the host has a piano and someone going "<my name> plays the piano!"

"hey play this!" me saying "mmm I can play you some chopin" and get a "Booooring, play some coldplay instead"



After I learn a piece I try to go on to a different composer, My aim is to have at least one great piece from all the great well-known composers down.

So If someone asks me to play something i can say "Sure beautiful, who do you like?"

I feel that would be deceptively impressive as my repertoire would seem much larger than is was.

As for classical requests within certain composers, then that is a bit ambitious, I have a few beethoven sonata down so I can just about take requests for the better known easier sonatas; moonlight, fur elise <getting harder> Pathetique, appassionata and a bit of the first movement of Hammerklavier.(4 pages)

thats my beethoven Repertoire, and my pieces for wooing; Chopin's
 nocturne 20, liszts un sospiro, cavatina and *cough*  The theme from 'the Piano'  *cough*

I like it Ok?

[bernhard]

After I learn a piece I try to go on to a different composer, My aim is to have at least one great piece from all the great well-known composers down.

So If someone asks me to play something i can say "Sure beautiful, who do you like?"

I feel that would be deceptively impressive as my repertoire would seem much larger than is was.

That is the spirit! Don’t just feel like a charlatan: Be one!

Now to go one step further:

Get a copy of Gunther von Noe’s “Happy Birthday To You – Humorous variations” (Doblinger). This is a hilarious book with parodies of the most famous compositions by famous composers with Happy Birthday to You throw in. If you have ever seen a Victor Borge show or video, he played many of those. Most are one–two pages long and of        an intermediate level (but sound much more difficult).

So you announce: “Something by Beethoven”, and launch into what sounds like the first movement of the Pathetique, and to  everyone suprises it turns into an araangement of HBTY in Beethoven;s style. Whenever someone requests a piece by a famous composer, you oblige just to turn it into another rendition of HBTY. You just have to put the work to learn the 14 variations (not difficult, really: Palestrina – Bach – Mozart – Beethoven – Schubert – Chopin – Strauss – Brahms – Verdi – Wagner – R. Strauss – Marx – Schonberg – Boogie Woogie).

Keep it a secret and you will achieve the following:

1.   You will convince your listeners that not only you have mastered some difficult and varied classical repertory as you are a superb improviser who can graft HBTY into it.

2.   You will avoid having to actually play the classical pieces – which probably no one wants to hear anyway – and instead you will have an entertaining comedy act at your fingertips.

In the unlikely case that someone actually wants to hear a real piece just laugh it out and say that no one is really interested. (They will not be). Or launch into another variation.

In fact, once you get the hang of it, you may even try to do your own variation by grafting HBTY on a favourite piece.. Recently, I prepared two of my students (sisters) to play the Bach- Gounod “Ave Maria” (one of the sisters playing the piano, the other the treble recorder) as a birthday present for their grandmother, whose favourite piece it was. Except that after the first few bars, it turned into HBTY – and then back to the Ave Maria. It was quite a hit during the party!

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Ludvig_Van_Me]

Thanks for that berhard, ill check that out


"Don’t just feel like a charlatan: Be one! "


LOL

[bernhard]

Thanks for that berhard, ill check that out


"Don’t just feel like a charlatan: Be one! "


LOL

You are welcome.

I have just remembered another one. Have you ever seen a movie with Gerard Depardieu and Andy MacDowell called “Green Card”?

In it, Depardieu plays a French man who in order to get a USA residency goes through a fake marriage with Andy MacDowell and passes for a modern composer. During a fund raising party, someone asks him to play the piano (which of course he has no clue how to do). What he proceeds to do is priceless. Just watch the movie, and next time someone asks you to play, see if you can pull the same stunt.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[anda]

In it, Depardieu plays a French man who in order to get a USA residency goes through a fake marriage with Andy MacDowell and passes for a modern composer. During a fund raising party, someone asks him to play the piano (which of course he has no clue how to do). What he proceeds to do is priceless. Just watch the movie, and next time someone asks you to play, see if you can pull the same stunt.

that scene was superb!!! thanks for reminding me - now  i'm laughing just thinking of depardieu playing "his latest composition" - it was something about trees, right?

[bernhard]

And the irony of it all is that apparently Depardieu can actually play the piano!

[richard w]

Get a copy of Gunther von Noe’s “Happy Birthday To You – Humorous variations” (Doblinger). This is a hilarious book with parodies of the most famous compositions by famous composers with Happy Birthday to You throw in. If you have ever seen a Victor Borge show or video, he played many of those. Most are one–two pages long and of        an intermediate level (but sound much more difficult).

So you announce: “Something by Beethoven”, and launch into what sounds like the first movement of the Pathetique, and to  everyone suprises it turns into an araangement of HBTY in Beethoven;s style. Whenever someone requests a piece by a famous composer, you oblige just to turn it into another rendition of HBTY. You just have to put the work to learn the 14 variations (not difficult, really: Palestrina – Bach – Mozart – Beethoven – Schubert – Chopin – Strauss – Brahms – Verdi – Wagner – R. Strauss – Marx – Schonberg – Boogie Woogie).

Hmmm, this will seem like a good idea until you are in an audition for the Royal College, and whilst playing the Waldstein suffer a memory loss during the development section and revert to Happy Birthday to You.

If this happens you have a few choices.

1. Pray that the piano stool is capable of eating candidates, and that it is hungry right now.
2. Claim that this is how Glen Gould renders that particular ornament.
3. Put it down to differences between editions, and swear blind that that's how it is in your Henle.
4. Apply to a different College.

I have just remembered another one. Have you ever seen a movie with Gerard Depardieu and Andy MacDowell called “Green Card”?

In it, Depardieu plays a French man who in order to get a USA residency goes through a fake marriage with Andy MacDowell and passes for a modern composer. During a fund raising party, someone asks him to play the piano (which of course he has no clue how to do). What he proceeds to do is priceless. Just watch the movie, and next time someone asks you to play, see if you can pull the same stunt.

That is what most of my improvisations sound like. I enjoy improvising, but other people are less enthusiastic. 

If someone says "can you play", "Oh i have the music for- play this"

Saying "no, my sight reading isn't that good" or "no i dont know that", doesn't really make me feel like a competent pianist.

Don't of course loose sight of the longer-term objectives, namely being able to overcome your charlatanism. Work on your sight reading, improvisation and playing by ear - all really useful if you are at a party and are asked to play. Consider also that as musicians we necessarily have very high standards for ourselves. It is very important to continually strive for these standards, but for the most part we will always be looking for improvements. Therefore, learn to put to one side you perfectionism and accept that to those people who haven't the first idea about music what you do, even if it is only to improvise around a few chords, is a marvel.


And by the way, I also am very familiar with the charlatan feeling. 



Richard.

[Ludvig_Van_Me]

 


And by the way, I also am very familiar with the charlatan feeling. 



Richard.

aaawwww Group hug!

[athykay]

Get a copy of Gunther von Noe’s “Happy Birthday To You – Humorous variations” (Doblinger). This is a hilarious book with parodies of the most famous compositions by famous composers with Happy Birthday to You throw in. If you have ever seen a Victor Borge show or video, he played many of those. Most are one–two pages long and of        an intermediate level (but sound much more difficult).

This sounds fun, but alas, I wasn't able to find it on Amazon.com, Sheetmusicplus or any of my regular, quick and easy buy-music-sites.  Can you tell me where I might pick meself up a copy?

[bernhard]

 

Hmmm, this will seem like a good idea until you are in an audition for the Royal College, and whilst playing the Waldstein suffer a memory loss during the development section and revert to Happy Birthday to You.

Just make sure the date of your exam “happens” to be the birthday of one of the examiners.

[bernhard]

This sounds fun, but alas, I wasn't able to find it on Amazon.com, Sheetmusicplus or any of my regular, quick and easy buy-music-sites.  Can you tell me where I might pick meself up a copy?

I bought my copy from my local music shop some 6 or 7 years ago. All I can tell you is that it is published by Doblinger (an Austrian publisher with outlets in Vienna and Munich), the copyright is from 1997 and the ISMN is M-012-18523-9.

I tried googling the author and the title, and the only entry I got back was… this very thread!

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[athykay]

Thanks much, Bernhard.  I'll see if I'm able to get my local music store to order a copy.

[bernhard]

Thanks much, Bernhard.  I'll see if I'm able to get my local music store to order a copy.

You are welcome.

[Bob]

I think a lot of people have a "collective impression" about pianists.  Everything they seen should be what every pianist can do.  Certain a jazz pianist would be able to sit down and improvise a little, but a classical one usually prepares their pieces.  I don't think the typical piano student can sit down and play anything.

When someone has asked me to improvise, I just tell them I'm "not that kind of pianist."  Sounds funny, but it's true.  I could make something up, but I don't I would like what I played.

If they want Chopin, then I play something by Chopin if I know something at that moment.  If not, then I don't and suggest something else.

If they place a piece of music in front of music, then I take advantage of the sight-reading opportunity.  I play as best I can, making the overall sound take priority over playing all the right notes (ie bassline and melody at least).

People usually get disspointed if you don't play anything.  That's why I suggest something else I do know when I don't know their request.  With the sight-reading, a lot of people are impressed with anything that is played.  If they don't know anything about music, just hitting the keys confidently impresses them.  If they do, a lot of musicians aren't aware when you leave out notes.  Everyone will notice if you mess up, but there are ways of covering the small mistakes up.

If you really feel the need to impress these people, then you need to learn jazz improv. and get better at sight-reading.  I think sight-reading is a good skill to have and knowing a little about jazz doesn't hurt at all.  At advanced/professional levels of playing, I think you're expected to be able to do this anyway to be a well-rounded pianist.  At least, being a good sight-reader.  A professional who doesn't have at least an awareness of jazz is probably a little strange (and out of work more).

[bernhard]

This reminds me of a stunt that Victor Borge used to do in his teenage years. Whenever there was a party or gathering at his parent’s house, he was asked to play this and that  - which he had no clue how to play. He would announce solemnly: “Sonata op. 232 by Beethoven” and proceed to play one of his own compositions whose style was vaguely reminiscent of Beethoven. He always relished the moments afterwards – before he revealed the truth (although sometimes he didn’t) where some of the “experts” in the party would wax lyrical about how Beethoven last style was much superior to his early efforts and how such and such pianist could really bring  the music alive in that particular piece.

But I guess this sort of charlatanism probably requires more work and practice than actually playing the real thing…

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Derek]

In terms of building sight reading skills, I know a lot of people say "just do it more and it will get better" but the problem is, if you weren't trained properly you'll have a tendency to look at pitches rather than intervals.

I am remedying this habit in myself by practicing exercise from a book by Lorina Havill called "You Can Sight Read."  After approximately a year or so I'm finding it much easier to read reasonable music such as Chopin's nocturnes than I ever had before. I'm not quite sight-reading yet, but at least its not EXCRUCIATINGLY FRUSTRATING to read through pieces anymore.

Check out that book, it might help.

-Derek

[Ludvig_Van_Me]

Thanks derek, ill check that out

[jlh]

*this message originally had a question about finding the music for the HBTY variations, but I just realized that question had been answered already, so hence the edit.*

[puma]

Sometimes I do feel a bit like a fake - if put in a situation where someone said "play this" could I play it?  And I've tried to improve my playing to that point but ... all in due time, they say.
I think the idea to play one piece from each well-known composer isn't such a bad idea.  It's one way to increase your rep. 
Improv helps a helluva lot when trying to play for others.  I've been working on Take The A Train, a classic, and been extending the piece for the solo bit.  With just a few pieces and improv under your belt, voila, a jazz rep (easier said than done, however.)
And those movies don't help us at all!  You usually see someone sit down and just play from memory - this and that, effortlessly.  And it's done perfectly.  The reality is that they hired a master to play the piece and filmed his hands. 
How about the moving scene in the Pianist when he plays for the German, without any practice mind you!  And he's been starving, going through a terrible time, to say the least.  Words can't do me justice here. (The reality is that Adrian Brody spent hours practicing the piece). 
In other words, just because you can't play movie-perfect doesn't mean you won't be able to - or that you're a fake.  You can play what you can play.  And don't let the fact that you may only know this piece or that piece discourage you from learning more pieces and improving your skills until you can get to the point where you CAN sit down and play effortlessly.

[pianodoc]

So I've been searching for the happy birthday variations, both online and at my local store...... no luck!  Is this still in print?  Anyone know where to get them?  Athykay, did you have any luck finding it?

Get a copy of Gunther von Noe’s “Happy Birthday To You – Humorous variations” (Doblinger). This is a hilarious book with parodies of the most famous compositions by famous composers with Happy Birthday to You throw in. If you have ever seen a Victor Borge show or video, he played many of those. Most are one–two pages long and of        an intermediate level (but sound much more difficult).

So you announce: “Something by Beethoven”, and launch into what sounds like the first movement of the Pathetique, and to  everyone suprises it turns into an araangement of HBTY in Beethoven;s style. Whenever someone requests a piece by a famous composer, you oblige just to turn it into another rendition of HBTY. You just have to put the work to learn the 14 variations (not difficult, really: Palestrina – Bach – Mozart – Beethoven – Schubert – Chopin – Strauss – Brahms – Verdi – Wagner – R. Strauss – Marx – Schonberg – Boogie Woogie).

[bernhard]

So I've been searching for the happy birthday variations, both online and at my local store...... no luck!  Is this still in print?  Anyone know where to get them?  Athykay, did you have any luck finding it?

Yes, try this (many thanks to Doug who gave me the information ):

Go to Doblinger's homepage
https://www.doblinger-musikverlag.at/

 
To order the book, you must go to this page:
https://secure.wyru.at/doblinger/request.asp?languageID=EN

Give them your mailing information, then include the following:

Author: "Gunther von Noe"
Title: "Happy Birthday to you - Heitere variationen fur Klavier"
Bestellnr: "01 641"

Unfortunately the site is in German.

I hope this helps (if does, thank Doug who did all the hard work to get this information).
 
Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[cziffra]

I tell everybody i'm a charlatan, but inside, i doubt that i really am one.

[pianodoc]

Thanks to Doug and Bernhard for finding the music site, and posting directions.

In a short while we should see if this "out of country" ordering works, or maybe I just bought a small chateau up in the mountains?!?

[pianodoc]

Yahoo!

It works!  The music just arrived today.  Thanks again!

[thierry13]

Sure I can pretty much play what I like but thats not really enough, id trade in my Freakishly long fingers for the ability to have the piano part of my being not a struggle.

Your fingers aren't freakishly long. They are pretty normal if you compare to anyone in this forum. I can do a tenth but not a 11th( allmost but I can'T do it). And I consider myself having small hands... So your fingers aren't that long  Of course, If you just began playing, and your hand is not stretched at all you take a 11th, then you have long fingers. If your hand is allready stretched by playing piano, then your fingers are pretty normal.

[SDL]

You know I used to play electric organ  but I ALWAYS improvised because Id mastered it too early and became bored (I especially improvised pedalling).  When I played piano for school assemblies I ended up improvising too especially For All the Saints - added passing notes and octaves in the LH.  But I also did all the school musicals because I could read chords and a melody and hardly ever learn the written music, but improvised in a "piano style".  I tend to play by ear for things people ask for (theyre usually well known TV themes or something!).  Try learning by ear and establish a style - hybrid jazz, rag, "classical". Ive also tried "in the style of " Bach, Mozart, etc say with a theme of Skippy or something.  This can be alot of fun.