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Author Topic: Victor used corrugated cardboard fix to tighten tuning pins for upright piano  (Read 459 times)
themaximillyan
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« on: May 06, 2017, 02:07:09 PM »

Victor ( Victor Dyachenko) used corrugated cardboard fix to tighten tuning pins for his home upright piano
He wrote:

Unfortunately I'm not a professional tuner. Just for lack of finance, I myself need tuning home upright piano my daughter's . I myself am the engineer of the steelmaking technologist here and I want to learn the basics of tuning upright. I using a computer program for tuning. Today I did it's the second time. The first was more successful. Today drew attention to loose pins that were quickly upset after the first tuning. It's C #2 and E2 Thank you very much for your advice with corrugated cardboard.
https://youtu.be/hC4igLgzdLg
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hfmadopter
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2017, 09:24:47 AM »

Yes, it's an old trick and can give some extended life from the pin block. Better yet is sand paper wedges. Wet/dry sand paper of 100-200 grid cut into V shapes. Slip the sand paper into the hole with the grit against the wood and screw the pin back in , don't hammer it in. I've read articles that this was Baldwin's suggested fix for a loose pin. But understand that if the piano starts failing all over the pins/multi pins, it's time for a new pin block.

Piano tuners today who bother to address this issue are using super glue, FWIW. Don't ask me how it works, I wouldn't dare try it myself. But they claim it's a more permanent fix than wedges of any type. I would think that once this is done, that's it for that pin block. You now saturated the wood pores and grains with a hard glue, it isn't ever coming back to life. But they claim it works.
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Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.
themaximillyan
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 05:50:26 AM »

Yes, it's an old trick and can give some extended life from the pin block. Better yet is sand paper wedges. Wet/dry sand paper of 100-200 grid cut into V shapes. Slip the sand paper into the hole with the grit against the wood and screw the pin back in , don't hammer it in. I've read articles that this was Baldwin's suggested fix for a loose pin. But understand that if the piano starts failing all over the pins/multi pins, it's time for a new pin block.

Piano tuners today who bother to address this issue are using super glue, FWIW. Don't ask me how it works, I wouldn't dare try it myself. But they claim it's a more permanent fix than wedges of any type. I would think that once this is done, that's it for that pin block. You now saturated the wood pores and grains with a hard glue, it isn't ever coming back to life. But they claim it works.
There are many practices of working with lost pins. Sandpaper, soft wood vener shim, metal bushings and super glue CA in the last decade. All this things is be and it's must work.
What is the difference this methods and Max's cardboard snim
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1903472/1/Ok,_so_I've_been_thinking_abou.html
 3mm cardboard  shim will partially destroyed in moment screwing pin and the microfibre of a cardboard fills the cracks of a bush and  hole of a pinblock . "A wooden hole is treated (fixed) using wood microfibre at inwardly"
As a result, the thickness  inwardly wood bush reduce and the necessary friction are again. Any layman can do this. It will not damage neighboring "working" pins, as Victor did now
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hfmadopter
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 10:00:35 AM »

As I understand it the sand paper is a longer term fix than cardboard and sand paper was at least one manufacturers suggested repair. Both work and do as you suggest, just one way is claimed to be the longer lasting method that was suggested by at least the one piano manufacturer. You hear accounts where shimming doesn't last and others where it lasted for decades LOL. I think it's all about a particular application situation. lets put it this way, I would do what I had to do. Most houses have a piece of cardboard box laying around so it's worth a shot if you have a loose tuning pin. It may only last a short time or may last for decades.

There is also a metal mesh shim available, not sure how that one works except obviously it takes up the loose space. I wouldn't think metal to be ideal personally.
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Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.
themaximillyan
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 04:33:42 PM »

As I understand it the sand paper is a longer term fix than cardboard and sand paper was at least one manufacturers suggested repair. Both work and do as you suggest, just one way is claimed to be the longer lasting method that was suggested by at least the one piano manufacturer. You hear accounts where shimming doesn't last and others where it lasted for decades LOL. I think it's all about a particular application situation. lets put it this way, I would do what I had to do. Most houses have a piece of cardboard box laying around so it's worth a shot if you have a loose tuning pin. It may only last a short time or may last for decades.

There is also a metal mesh shim available, not sure how that one works except obviously it takes up the loose space. I wouldn't think metal to be ideal personally.
I think it's not true to say that so sandpaper will work more reliably that a cardboard. There are no statistics. I think that at the moment of screwing a pin  sandpaper partially destroys the circumference of the wooden hole of a pinblock and a bush. With cardboard shim this does not happen, since it is soft and it's product of wood processing.
Metal bushing. I do not know if she can help for loose tuning pin
Cardboard surrounds us everywhere, I agree with you. I would be happy if this material would work for the benefit of the piano owners. Not  long times even
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hfmadopter
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 08:24:39 AM »

I would be happy if this material would work for the benefit of the piano owners. Not  long times even

I wouldn't hesitate to try it if you have a loose pin or two. I bet it works for at least a reasonable time. It will be important ( it always is) to keep humidity levels steady in the house the piano lives in. The worst enemy of older piano pin blocks and the piano itself is too low a humidity level. And that happens really easy in the winter with heat running in the house.

 
I found it interesting that in the sandpaper technique that you lacquer or varnish the back side of the paper and let that dry over night before cutting the wedges. I don't understand the purpose of that exactly. My only thought is that it must help control the integrity of the backing as the pin gets screwed in. I doubt the sandpaper ruins the hole, it's pretty fine paper, I think the grit is enough to aid in a good grip to the wood. Some methods of shimming produces a jumpy tuning pin when tuning the string, this  method is not supposed to do that.
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Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.
themaximillyan
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 11:31:14 AM »

I found it interesting that in the sandpaper technique that you lacquer or varnish the back side of the paper and let that dry over night before cutting the wedges. I don't understand the purpose of that exactly. My only thought is that it must help control the integrity of the backing as the pin gets screwed in.
I would assume that varnishing   the back side of the paper  done by applying a varnish for better coupling of the pin with a hole
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hfmadopter
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2017, 11:54:53 AM »

I would assume that varnishing   the back side of the paper  done by applying a varnish for better coupling of the pin with a hole

The instructions state to be sure to insert the paper with the grit against the wood.
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Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.
themaximillyan
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2017, 03:37:08 AM »

The instructions state to be sure to insert the paper with the grit against the wood.
Soft cardboard shim have hard connect with a hole and a pin. Why that  need us using  varnishing the backside or it's grit against the wood? That it's creating new friction without a varnishing and a sand
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hfmadopter
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2017, 06:14:51 PM »

Soft cardboard shim have hard connect with a hole and a pin. Why that  need us using  varnishing the backside or it's grit against the wood? That it's creating new friction without a varnishing and a sand

Ya, well I said I don't know the exact purpose of the varnish. You seem very committed to cardboard so my suggestion is to stick with that.
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Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.
themaximillyan
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2017, 02:56:20 PM »

Ya, well I said I don't know the exact purpose of the varnish. You seem very committed to cardboard so my suggestion is to stick with that.
Yes, you right. I had many practice with many material and my choice is a cardboard. it's material I use in my everyday.
I wish that anything man try did it  and his piano will as good again after cardboard shim procedure.
regards,Max
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