Not comfortable with abstract atonal music

[tinyhands]

Hello, my teacher has suggested I start exploring more abstract 20 th century music as she thinks it will really help with my expression and confidence issues. She says I am very intuitive, have lovely phrasing etc but I am still cautious in my playing, and I need to 'let myself go' more. Also quite comfortable in the romantic genre but she suggested taking more risks in my playing could be really beneficial for me.

Biggest hurdles seem to be getting fully into the character and playing loudly. I know myself I am quite a self-conscious person plus I have never been comfortable with loud aggressive situations, I hate arguments, horror films, I am sensitive to bright lights and loud noises for example. Anyway I totally know what she is getting at and I would like to be more comfortable with just giving my all and letting go - but the problem I have is that the pieces she would like me to explore, Schoenberg's atonal music and Bartok..well I tried listening to them, but I just find them horrible. in fact I will go so far to say I felt really anxious and uncomfortable listening to Schoenberg in particular. But like REALLY anxious.

Honestly I actually felt uneasy and quite even quite frightened listening to the music! In the same way I don't watch horror films as I hate the feeling of being scared.  I know this sounds crazy, I said to my teacher I really did not enjoy his work but she was saying how they are fun to play, how she would not necessarily put them on to listen to on a Sunday for example, BUT when you play them you really get into them. I suppose I'm wondering if anyone else has felt something similar, like has an extreme reaction to certain types of music. 

I know I am a sensitive person with music, I am very moved easily ..I've cried at every opera and ballet I've ever seen. My husband laughs at me, I can hear 2 notes of Chopin and I get tears in my eyes.  So in suppose this is just the same..an emotional reaction to music.  But my goodness I was quite surprised at how uneasy and upsetting I found his music to be. Anyway I really don't think I can play his stuff, think my teacher is a little disappointed but I really don't feel comfortable with it. I know his work is not hugely accessible at first, I think it's the atonal thing..it just sounds so unnatural and unpleasant on the ear. I know my teacher is thinking I will 'get ' his music in time, but I don't think she understands how uneasy it actually made me feel, my heart races and everything!!

Anyway..could anyone could suggest any 20th century abstract pieces which they think would help expression but were a little nicer to the ear? that would be great.  I am Learning some Shostakovich though which I thought was quite abstract, so maybe that's a start....

[nw746]

Schoenberg's music is very anguished and disturbed by design—that's more or less what he expected people to feel (with the exception of a few "lighter" works like the Suite Op. 25).

I enjoy Bartók a lot, whose music has strong folk music roots, but not everyone's a fan. And they're not strictly atonal but I also really like Szymanowski and Roslavets and sometimes Messiaen.

[indianajo]

I feel that the respect for Shoenberg and the twelve tone non-tonal movement in academia is one of the great frauds of the twentieth century.  Right up there with academic respect for Jackson Pollock and other idiots.  If those guys had any talent they would be as famous as Lennon, McCartney, and Disney.
Bartok's quartet is atonal ****, although his folk music inspired pieces I can appreciate.
About as far as I will go with atonality is Satie, and he is atonal light.    Quirky but not offensive.  
My teacher had me do Ernst Toch Der Jongler at contest one year.  It is loud, dissonant, very male (which I am) but I hated it and I haven't touched it since recital 1962.  Some boys like firecrackers & chainsaws, I like music, which has the occasional perfect interval.  
If you want to be free loud and brash, but still enjoy the music, try Lecuona Malaguena, Sousa Washington Post March,  Scott Joplin Magnetic Rag.   At least that is what I do.  
These are probably guarenteed to drive your teacher crazy, as being too popular.  
I was jumping around on those right hand octaves in WPM this week, opposed to the tuba stride part in the LH  - I can still find the keys rapidly at this advancing age. I turned 67 last month.  
As far as actual talents who flirted with atonality occasionally, see Prokovieff and Stravinsky.  Both their good pieces are very difficult, however, maybe not worth the effort.  2nd Piano concerto (P) and Petrouscka (S) are really hard even though piano versions exist. 

[visitor]

teacher was pretty lax in that it's a pretty wide net and there is a lot of variety and wonderful music to explore in that genre and vein.
if you want something with a more tonal underlay that uses a ton of modern tonality/atonal devices and central ambiguities, i have a bunch of ideas, this one popped into my mind immediately

[visitor]

this is a really nice one, ihave the score, not too terrible/difficult looking but it gets knarly in spots

in terms of understanding abstract, neat thing about these pieces is sometimes we have the composer's own thoughts and approaches we can reference. Here is Druckman on the process
(composer of the above variations)

[visitor]

this Slominsky is short but super cool

[georgey]

Anyway..could anyone could suggest any 20th century abstract pieces which they think would help expression but were a little nicer to the ear? that would be great.  I am Learning some Shostakovich though which I thought was quite abstract, so maybe that's a start....

Shostakovich is great.  I might suggest his 24 prelude and fugues Op. 78 if you are not currently playing these.

[mjames]

Listening recommendation: scriabin. Start with op. 1 because you'll realize it's quite similar Chopin's music, if you move up chronologically it'll definitely ease you into Scriabin's later music. I'm asking you to do this because although late Scriabin is not atonal, he does sort of make easier for you to bear to listen to and play actual "atonal" music like Schoenberg. Another listening recommendation is syzmanowski and late debussy.

[tinyhands]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply. I will have a proper listen to.all your recommendations when I get the chance.
Nw746 - I Had a quick look at Messiaen..I like the sound of his stuff, reminded me of Debussy who I love. Interesting what you say about Schoenberg'so intentions in his music to disturb, as I said to my teacher, I learn piano to relax and get enjoyment...his work does neither to me..:-)
Indiana Jo- I like Prokofiev and am going you explore more of his pieces.
Visitor -I couldn't access some of the videos , perhaps it's the country I was viewing them in..?
MJames-good tips with the Scriabin etc.  Thanks!

Yes I agree there is a wealth of 20th century music to explore , but you guys have given  me some great material to listen to. I totally know why my teacher was pushing the abstract atonal music..I think i'll focus on pieces that have a lot of colour rather than stuff that sounds so angry and aggressive!

[ted]

Have you heard Saudades do Brasil by Milhaud ? That might appeal to you.
If you really don't like something though, I can see no point in forcing yourself to try to like it. The same goes for any sort of music, not just modern. I don't like much classical and jazz so I don't bother with it. Life is short and music should provide unconditional joy.

[Bob]

Passing through the thread.  A couple random thoughts....

Maybe listen intensely to some atonal music for a while.   Then drop it.  Come back later, and it might sound different.

If you're emotions are that tied to music... Maybe trying playing something that's as expressionless as you can.  One note.  A scale.  Diads.  Maybe dissonant diads?   Something to train your brain not to respond to sound with emotion quite as much.  Or just not to respond to anything with emotion I guess.

[outin]

I am the complete opposite to you: I love abstract and atonal. What makes me grind my teeth is classical era music such as Beethoven or Mozart. I tried and tried to initiate myself into it but my natural reaction is so unpleasant that learning to play it is out of the question. I could never play it the way it's supposed to be played. I absolutely made my teacher crazy with Mozart because I tried to change it into something more tolerable

So explore, but if you still cannot overcome your repulsion, don't ruin your piano experience by forcing yourself. There's enough music in the world to keep you busy without such things! I am assuming you are not studying to be a professional pianist.

And definitely look into early Scriabin and Shostakovich and other Russian 20th century composers. Plenty of beautiful stuff there.