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Two New Mozart Piano Pieces Discovered

The International Mozarteum Foundation in Salzburg has announced it has discovered two previously unknown compositions written by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. They will be performed by clavichordist Florian Birsak on Mozart’s own fortepiano at the family’s old Salzburg residence. Read more >>

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Author Topic: What is intelligence?  (Read 294 times)
Bob
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« on: July 14, 2017, 10:40:02 PM »

Just curious what people here will say.

In it's rawest form, what is intelligence?  That's what I'm looking for.  There's Gardner, yes, getting out of date now, but if you (can you?) go a level at least above that... What's there?  What's intelligence at the highest, most basic level?

I would imagine if you took Mozart and removed any music aspect of his life or substituted something else, he's probably going to be pretty freaking smart in some area other than music too. 


I just find it interesting that intelligence can't really be defined at all or measured, except we all know it when we see it or don't see it.
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rachmaninoff_forever
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 11:28:56 PM »

It's how well you pick up on sh*t that's all
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outin
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2017, 04:06:00 AM »

The most simple answer is that intelligence consists of things you define to be measured by an IQ test. Things like logical reasoning, efficient use of working memory and short term memory, spatial perception, processing speed etc.

In practice there seem to be different types/aspects of it, some more easily measurable than others. IQ test can also fail because of problems in areas not associated with intelligence. It can also be difficult sometimes to see the difference between being knowledgeable/educated and intelligent.
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klavieronin
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2017, 04:45:18 AM »

Part of intelligence at least has to be related to information processing and pattern recognition. I think it's a question we'll learn a lot more about in the coming decades what with the advances in neuroscience and artificial intelligence happening currently.
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hardy_practice
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2017, 08:03:00 AM »


I would imagine if you took Mozart and removed any music aspect of his life or substituted something else, he's probably going to be pretty freaking smart in some area other than music too.  


I just find it interesting that intelligence can't really be defined at all or measured, except we all know it when we see it or don't see it.
Yeh, he was a master at billiards and dancing too.  There's no way you can define intelligence - it doesn't fit in a bottle.  Though  if you separate intelligence from genius you may possibly get somewhere.
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c_minor
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2017, 09:01:45 AM »

Maybe similar to creativity? If I remember correctly, someone said/wrote that it's seeing things that others cannot (or something like that :p). In mathematics, for example, there are problems which can be solved using brute force (the four color problem comes to mind, though I'm not sure if it can be considered solved); it is also possible that a more elegant solution exists, which applies basic principles to solve the problem.

I hope that made some sense.  Grin
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Bob
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2017, 11:13:08 PM »

Yeh, he was a master at billiards and dancing too.  There's no way you can define intelligence - it doesn't fit in a bottle.  Though  if you separate intelligence from genius you may possibly get somewhere.


Not questioning it, but what's the source on that?  I haven't heard of it before.  We don't get to hear about things genius composers are good or bad at besides music.  The only other not-quite-music aspect for Mozart that pops into mind is the fart jokes, but that could the historians focusing on what info they find too.
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mjames
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 01:42:22 AM »

There's a thing that seems to be common (though this might just be selection bias) among child prodigies. They were not only talented in music but in several other areas as well. Saint-Saens was noted to be adept in mathematics, literature (in several languages), astronomy, and philosophy at a young age. Mendelssohn was good at anything he put his mind to, and he had a strong love for classical literature as shown by the fact that he translated an entire play from Latin to German for fun, and he was quite the painter too; there's a collection of his amateur art all over the internet. Chopin was great at visual arts and had quite the talent for writing:

Quote
When the world declares the festivity of your name-day,
my Papa, it brings joy to me also, with these wishes;
that you may live happily, may not know grievous cares, that God may always favour you with the fate you desire,
these wishes I express for your sake.

--F. Chopin
6 December 1816.

A 6 year old wrote that? what?...

In regards to Mozart I haven't heard anything about him excelling in other academic subjects, but that would be due to the fact that his father treated him like a monkey instead of providing him with an adequate education as Mendelssohn's, Chopin's, and Saint Saens' parents did.
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hardy_practice
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2017, 08:53:40 AM »


Not questioning it, but what's the source on that? 
Otto Jahn is a good source but any biog will have it.
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goldentone
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 07:20:27 PM »

In it's rawest form, what is intelligence?  That's what I'm looking for.

I would imagine if you took Mozart and removed any music aspect of his life or substituted something else, he's probably going to be pretty freaking smart in some area other than music too.  

Intelligence I believe essentially concerns our ability to make connections and how quickly we make them.  Then there is perception which seems to be a branch of it.

Like how quickly can you assimilate a panoply of watch models against your own style and needs. Grin  

Though if you separate intelligence from genius you may possibly get somewhere.

Hardy makes an important distinction between intelligence and genius.  I believe genius is deeper than intelligence and resides in the soul.  Or we might say that genius is the substratum.  While we would all agree Mozart was intelligent, I don't know that means that he could have substituted science for his music ability as his genius there reigned.
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Bob
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 02:31:39 AM »

ability to make connections and how quickly we make them. 

This part is interesting.  Just making a connection.  And speed.  That sounds more basic and raw than making a pattern-connection.  It also leaves the possibility for the wrong connection, an irrelevent connection, or... a creative connection.
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