Counting notes in the head while playing a piece

[thomas82]

From my understanding,to play a piece you have to play at the exact counts of the beats.
However,I have problem with playing at the correct rythm reading the score and the same time counting the counts in the head.
Normally my routine practice is just by gut feel of the rythm from the score and hold the notes as long as i see what type of note it is and not counting the notes in the head.
My teacher advices me to count the notes in the head as she sees my rythm is not exact correct.
May i know any tips to sight read the notes on the score and at the same time counting the notes counts in the head.

Also if you memorize the song,did you actually also count the notes in your head too?
There are just too much thing to coordinate at the same time.

[outin]

Counting in my head is for the pulse rather than the notes values (after they are initially learned of course). There are some pieces where I always have to count at certain points (like if there are long notes in the beginning or long rests), but generally the pulse becomes fixed after a while and auditory memory makes sure it's correct. With such pieces it doesn't matter what tempo I play, I only need to "set" my inner metronome to a certain pulse in the beginning.

If it's too much to handle to count and read, maybe try it first with something memorized or just with one hand. You practice this just like any other aspect of piano playing, with small steps...

[j_tour]

If it's too much to handle to count and read, maybe try it first with something memorized or just with one hand. You practice this just like any other aspect of piano playing, with small steps...

I completely agree.  For me, actually counting (as opposed to subconsciously counting/being aware of the rhythms and subdivisions) is one of those things that, I guess, you're supposed to be able to do in theory, but I've never considered anybody to actually do it, except for doing some specific tricky passages, with or without a metronome.

Hard to say, really, because I suppose I and probably most people are always counting in some sense, just by a different name, like "feeling the pulse" or just concentrating very hard on the music, and being conscientious about playing the right rhythm, even if it's counterintuitive or something you haven't done before.

Here's a good example from something I've been reading through the past few days, Liszt's Hungarian Rhaps. #9 -- the part where the LH blocks out the rhyhm with the giant LH bass+(Bb+G+Eb, spelled from the bottom up).  Not need to count, but do need to remember to include the right amount of rests and so forth.  So, sort of counting without literally counting.

One oddity, off the top of my head, is that fugues from Bach sort of don't need the counting, once you're playing the right notes -- they just kind of unfold on their own.  Kind of hard to stop finishing to the end of the fugue once you get started, which makes it kind of counterproductive for memorizing the things, since you're tempted to just play through from beginning to end, rather than systematically working on the parts that trip you up.

[vaniii]

If it's too much to handle to count and read, maybe try it first with something memorized or just with one hand. You practice this just like any other aspect of piano playing, with small steps...

Second'd!

[keypeg]

It happens too often that students are assigned pieces but are not given good strategies for practising.  The problem is even greater if a student first self-taught, and so on testing with his first teacher, is seen to already be at a "level" and start there.  From this and another post where you wrote that you don't know your scales but feel your way along chords, it seems there are a few things missing that are tripping you up.  When a student's rhythm is inexact, and a teacher simply says to start counting notes, that to me is a knee-jerk reaction.

First there is the question of how you are working on any piece of music.  The strategy that I learned is for the music to be divided into smaller sections, and to work on those small sections.  Secondly, to work on one skill at a time, and layer them in.  For example, you might want to make sure that you have the correct notes down, with good fingering that you will stay with consistently.  At this point don't worry much about tempo or rhythm. Don't start playing a note until you know where that note is, so that each thing you do is correct and with certainty.  Allow this to gel. --- Counting comes second, and slowly, in a small section.  You cannot possibly count correctly if you are still hunting for the notes.

Meanwhile also check what missing skills might be tripping you up.  If you don't truly have a handle on connecting all the notes on the score with piano keys, this will be a constant blind spot.  Are your note values solid?  When I came out of self-teaching, I noticed that after whole, half, quarter, and eighth notes, there were "fast notes to stick in fast enough", and "really really fast notes".   The dotted eighth+sixteenth was a vague "hop-skip and jump" thingy.  I was fudging my way through.  One has to take the time.

Some teachers don't know how to teach how to practice in any individual sitting, or strategize working on a piece in stages throughout the week.  Others do, but are afraid an older student won't be willing to try it their way.  Simply telling you to count doesn't get close enough to the whole picture.

[outin]

Keypeg:
It must be a personal thing, but I always study the correct rhytm and pulse first. Otherwise my aural image of the piece may be warped. If needed I may even leave out notes in a measure first to get the rhytmic idea correctly imprinted in my head. Rhythm for me is the basis of all music and it's difficult for me to learn the notes without it.

[iansinclair]

I find that counting notes sometimes helps -- but not very often.  As Outin said, the way I approach these things is to get the pulse and main rhythm set correctly and stable in my head first.  Then if there are subdivisions of the pulse, I get those set out in relation to the pulse (usually they give no trouble, once you have the pulse, as it's rare for them to be anything much other than two to four subdivisions).  Then subdivisions of the subdivisions, if necessary.

I might add that doing it that way also helps tremendously in getting any accents or emphases correct...