"Why it takes a year to construct the world's greatest piano"

[Bob]

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/details-steinway-and-sons-piano/index.html

[perfect_pitch]

I'd agree with that, if it wasn't for the fact that Steinway aren't the best pianos in the world.

One word: Fazioli.

[ahinton]

I'd agree with that, if it wasn't for the fact that Steinway aren't the best pianos in the world.

One word: Fazioli.

Some more.

Bösendorfer.

Mason & Hamlin.

Steingraeber Phoenix.

Best,

Alistair

[alexjr1543]

Only a year?

[chopinlover01]

Bosendorfer and Fazioli consistently beat out Steinway for classical in my book. For jazz, I'm a huge fan of Fazioli and Steinway.

[mjames]

sometimes I wish my school was a bit more diverse in piano selection. all we have are steinways

[lostinidlewonder]

Stuart and Sons imho are the best pianos in the world.  https://www.stuartandsons.com
They also cost a heap.

[perfect_pitch]

Stuart and Sons imho are the best pianos in the world.  https://www.stuartandsons.com
They also cost a heap.

Which is why they're in most of the concert halls around the world...   

sometimes I wish my school was a bit more diverse in piano selection. all we have are steinways

Oh boo hoo... I wish our school had a damn Steinway. Or a Fazioli... hell, I'd be happy with a nice Concert Grand Yamaha.

[lostinidlewonder]

Which is why they're in most of the concert halls around the world...   

Ha, doubt most could budget for one! One of my students own one and they are beginners lol. It's like a crime to play such basic music on the beast lol.

[perfect_pitch]

Ha, doubt most could budget for one! One of my students own one and they are beginners lol. It's like a crime to play such basic music on the beast lol.

You missed my point entirely... never mind.

[mjames]

Which is why they're in most of the concert halls around the world...    

Oh boo hoo... I wish our school had a damn Steinway. Or a Fazioli... hell, I'd be happy with a nice Concert Grand Yamaha.

most of them are pretty bad tho, non-music majors aren't allowed to access the nice steinway pianos lol.

[tnan123]

I understand the love for Fazioli but they seem to hold a pretty niche market as well. They are great instruments and have a unique color perhaps more suited for certain applications (certain repertoire, or perhaps for concertos). However, for some of the biggest competitions with so much riding on the line and where competitors have a choice of which piano they play, I see that they overwhelmingly choose Steinway even if they aren't "Steinway artists"

The International Chopin Competition in 2015, arguably the most prestigious competition in the world saw only 1 competitor choose Fazioli.

My take is that there is no "greatest" piano. It all depends on the piece being played and the pianist playing it.

EDIT: reading my post again, I want to say that I'm not bashing Fazioli at all. I would say they rank among the best. My point is to say that the "greatest" piano will always depend on a lot of circumstances just as someone pointed out how some pianos are better for jazz vs classical.

[lostinidlewonder]

You missed my point entirely... never mind.

Not really, your sarcasm didn't really make sense to me. What kind of piano do you think exists in all concert halls around the world? Do you also realize how many people actually work behind the makings of a Stuart and Sons? If you do you will realize why they don't litter the world like Steinway for instance.

[iansinclair]

It doesn't matter a bit which particular brand of piano one thinks is the best.  Not.  One.  Little.  Tiny.  Bit.  Though I'm not surprised that the opportunity which was provided to watch an excellent video on how a piano is built was used to bash Steinway.  That's to be expected.

The points raised in the video, however, are valid for any of the top grade pianos, whichever ones one cares to place on the list.  I might add, though, that in a very real sense it takes much longer than a year: it is quite impossible to build a top end piano using inferior wood, and the wood used in the instrument never takes less than a few decades to grow.  It is also impossible to build a top end piano without real craftsmanship on the part of the builders.  That also takes years to accumulate.

I would readily agree that a very very very good piano with more rapidly grown wood, or even with modern materials (e.g. carbon fibre sound boards!) and one can do it with a large part of the job done by robots.  The result will be very consistent and more than acceptable -- indeed, it may well be better than all but a few examples of the top end pianos (I don't mean brands; I mean examples within brands) at least in the eyes and ears and fingers of a specific performer. 

Keep in mind that no two Steinways, or Faziolis, or Bosendorfers, or whatevers are exactly alike.  But, if you are honest, you can't make a blanket statement that this particular instrument (or brand) is better than that one.  You can say -- if you yourself are good enough, which means very good indeed -- that for playing this piece in this hall by you, that instrument is preferable to that other one over there.  I might also add that if you can't make both of them sound really good, you probably shouldn't even try to make the comparison!

[perfect_pitch]

Not really, your sarcasm didn't really make sense to me. What kind of piano do you think exists in all concert halls around the world? Do you also realize how many people actually work behind the makings of a Stuart and Sons? If you do you will realize why they don't litter the world like Steinway for instance.

What kind of piano? I'd say in most cases - Steinway, Fazioli or Bosendorfer take place in most of the concert halls.

It doesn't matter how many people work on the makings of a stuart and sons piano, because if they were actually decent sounding, then they'd be in the Concert Halls instead of Steinway or Fazioli, but they aren't.

That is why they don't take place in the great halls of the world.

[lostinidlewonder]

The pianos you mention are not found in MOST concert halls in the world, they can be found in many popular concert halls but most?

It does matter how many people work there, logically if they were as big as the more POPULAR brands they would be able to output a lot more and be cheaper. Being popular is not necessarily a measure of how good something is. Have you even played a Stuart and Sons before? If you think they are not decent sounding pianos theres something very unusual about your tastes and no wonder you disagree with me then. Not many can claim to have had much experience on such an instrument.

Of course this is all opinion as to what is the "best" so it seems foolish of you to try to debate my opinion and use popularity as a measuring stick. I thought I would put forward my opinion on what I thought were the best pianos in the world, maybe people who haven't heard of the brand before may be interested to look into it, if you read carefully i did put "IMHO" not THIS IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD AND YOU ARE ALL WRONG.

[keypeg]

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/details-steinway-and-sons-piano/index.html

Thank you, Bob, for the interesting link show us how such pianos are made as well as how long it takes, and why.  It merits some form of acknowledgment and perhaps discussion.  Frankly, I find the off topic things boring, and it distracts from what is in fact an interesting subject.

[lostinidlewonder]

The forum gets little activity as it is, frankly I find no discussion more boring.

[perfect_pitch]

"IMHO"

Well, I'll admit I didn't see that the first time, and a quick google search finally helped me realise what the hell that means.

Why the f@#$ don't people just write 'in my honest opinion' instead of that idiotic acronym???

[chopinlover01]

Why the f@#$ don't people just write 'in my honest opinion' instead of that idiotic acronym???

Because it's "in my humble opinion", perhaps?

Or maybe it's for the same reason that people use any other abbreviation?

[perfect_pitch]

Or maybe it's for the same reason that people use any other abbreviation?

Because they can't spell the words they're shortening???

[lostinidlewonder]

Nah, AAMOF or perhaps AAMOF it's BC that's what's done on the net EOD ROFL LOL!

[perfect_pitch]

Nah, AAMOF or perhaps AAMOF it's BC that's what's done on the net EOD

No idea what it means, don't care.

[lostinidlewonder]

*cries, I didn't realize you were an internet nub pp, internet acronyms are pretty standard.

[perfect_pitch]

First of all... I'm pretty sure it's spelt 'noob', and despite that, I'm not one - I just prefer to hold onto proper english, and not shorten words that don't need shortening.

[Bob]

That's it?  It's only a five minute video?  I just got around to watching it myself. 

[Bob]

This is more of what I had in mind.

It would be interesting if you could make your own piano....



I'm surprised there's no more voodoo in the piano world with pianos.  Some other instruments have that.  Extra gadgets, addons, etc. that are supposed to make the instrument better.

[lostinidlewonder]

First of all... I'm pretty sure it's spelt 'noob', and despite that, I'm not one - I just prefer to hold onto proper english, and not shorten words that don't need shortening.

Maybe you should google noob and nub, you will be amazed they are actually the same thing lol. I'd think that if you are not an internet nub that acronyms wouldn't surprise you or cause discontent.

Enjoy holding onto proper "english" even though it should be spelt English with a capital Oh the irony lo0ol

[keypeg]

Bumping, for obvious reasons.

This is more of what I had in mind.

It would be interesting if you could make your own piano....



I'm surprised there's no more voodoo in the piano world with pianos.  Some other instruments have that.  Extra gadgets, addons, etc. that are supposed to make the instrument better.

[perfect_pitch]

Maybe you should google noob and nub, you will be amazed they are actually the same thing lol. I'd think that if you are not an internet nub that acronyms wouldn't surprise you or cause discontent.

Enjoy holding onto proper "english" even though it should be spelt English with a capital Oh the irony lo0ol

Based on the way you type on these threads, you're the last person who gets to lecture me about English.

[lostinidlewonder]

Based on the way you type on these threads, you're the last person who gets to lecture me about English.

I'm the last person hey? With my apparently weak English skills as you suggest I still can pick up on your errors, someone who supposedly cares so much about proper English.

It's funny that you are the one who writes that you care so much about PROPER English and then go ahead and use it incorrectly in the same sentence lol!!

....  I just prefer to hold onto proper english.....

You're the one who wanted to start crying about the use of language on here yet you enjoy swearing, such great use of the English language right? So much better than internet acronyms.

Why the f@#$ don't people just write 'in my honest opinion' instead of that idiotic acronym???

Such elegant language, such proper use.

[perfect_pitch]

I'm the last person hey?

Yes.

I'm the last person, hey?

You forgot the comma.

[lostinidlewonder]

Yes.

AHAHA maybe you should look up rhetorical questions.

You forgot the comma.

I'm not the one who says I "hold onto" proper English like yourself, so please live up to the standards you have proclaimed to us all and use capitals especially when naming places, that is quite a rudimentary skill in the proper use of the English language.

Nevertheless you are wrong in thinking that I needed a comma, let us explore the fascinating reason as to why because I am sure since you enjoy the proper use of English you logically also will be very interested in this education on the proper use of the language!

English lesson for PP 101, usage of "hey" in the Aussie language.

eg 1: You're a boy and wear a dress hey?
eg 2: You're a boy and wear a dress, hey?

The 2nd implies confusion the first one is merely emphasising surprise or even bemusement and is rhetoric in nature. Now relinquish your Australian citizenship you failed to understand how to read Stralian lo0ol


Despite this you seem to think proper English involves using swear words ( f@#$ .... idiotic acronym) when something gets your knickers in a twist (in this case internet abbreviations LOL!!!), that is enough for me to realise your standards of what constitutes proper English is hypocritical. Too bad you have no comment for that one

It seems you think a little too highly of yourself pp You may think I should be the last person to question you on your proper use of the English language which you so cherish and thought important to share with us all, but don't you worry, you won't sway me from doing so.

I'm not one - I

Is this "proper" English? Maybe you should study the hyphen usage, it's not too advanced hahah!



All this from you trying to critique my opinion on what I consider is the best piano in the world ahahahha! Well, that's what you get hey?

[visitor]

visitor would be happy for life with a minty 1970's era Baldwin SF10, he would gladly take a new Charles Walter Grand, and those only if his grail piano of a Shigeru SK7 were not an option.

visitor has played several dreamy others he would take over most std US Steiny's, Mason Hamlin, August Förster, Steingraeber,   a few select Bosy's. Visitor was also surprised by how nice the Seiler and Sauter Grands he played were. Visit is sad he never got to play a modern Ibach or Pleyel while they were still in production :-(

Visitor is intrigued by the phenomenally rare other US piano the Ravenscroft, if it's as nice has he's heard and read, it would probably likely occupty a tied spot for no 1 grail piano along with the Shigeru, certainly it is orders of magnitude more rare and expensive.
https://www.ravenscroftpianos.com/Platinum/

[keypeg]

I'd like to suggest opening a thread in the miscellaneous section, or whatever it is called, to discuss English usage, levels of English, the use of Internet slang and its comprehensibility to readers at large, and any other language-related issues.  Most of us, when we come to a thread with a title introducing the construction of pianos, in a section called "Instruments", expect to be reading about instruments, and the construction of the piano.

It is a disrespect to Bob, who took the time to introduce two videos, so far, and a discourtesy to anyone who comes to the thread, expecting to see the topic.  The bickering is also unpleasant to observe.  Perhaps my standards are higher for anyone who is a teacher here, because somehow one expects that they are setting an example for us all.

This post is off topic too, and the moderator is free to delete it.

[perfect_pitch]

Now relinquish your Australian citizenship you failed to understand how to read Stralian lo0ol

You know what - that statement alone says more about your level of intelligence, than I ever could.

It is a disrespect to Bob, who took the time to introduce two videos, so far, and a discourtesy to anyone who comes to the thread, expecting to see the topic. 

You're right. I'll be the civilised one and refrain from bickering with visitor from this point onewards.

I apologise Bob, for getting off track.

[Bob]

I've thought the same about typing the whole word out, esp. on here and considering our fingers should be in better shape... We don't have a real excuse not to type more text.

[lostinidlewonder]

You know what - that statement alone says more about your level of intelligence, than I ever could.

Again with the poor use of the hyphen, that says a lot about your own level of intelligence
You have nothing to actually say PP just hot air, you already realise how wrong you have been or perhaps your ego has not allowed it . How does that highlight my intelligence, you obviously have poor skills to measure intelligence with, by the looks of how you have responded to me in this thread your own intelligence seems quite lagging behind. It's called a joke, maybe you don't have a sense of humour when it is directed at you calling you up on your silliness. Maybe try not to censor peoples opinion next time with your sarcasm and then get on your high horse when people try to be civil with you and explain their opinion, perhaps then you wont get these altercations.

You're right. I'll be the civilised one and refrain from bickering with visitor from this point onewards.

Refrain from swearing also is a good sign of being civil and allowing people to voice their opinions without your sarcasm. My first few reply to you was quite normal, all your responses to me were quite negative and then started even spreading misinformation, so it was your decision to start this all, I'm not one to ever back down from things like that

[keypeg]

You have nothing to actually say PP just hot air, you already realise how wrong you have been or perhaps your ego has not allowed it ....

If this had ANYTHING to do with how pianos are made, or how long it takes for them to be made, or what materials are used for making pianos, then I and others would be interested in how wrong PP may be, and whether he is full of hot air.  As it is, we come here over and over, hoping to read about the topic, and repeatedly it's more fighting about "linguistics". PLEASE open a thread in the appropriate section to discuss this, so that we can read about the topic!

[lostinidlewonder]

If this had ANYTHING to do with how pianos are made, or how long it takes for them to be made, or what materials are used for making pianos, then I and others would be interested in how wrong PP may be, and whether he is full of hot air.  As it is, we come here over and over, hoping to read about the topic, and repeatedly it's more fighting about "linguistics". PLEASE open a thread in the appropriate section to discuss this, so that we can read about the topic!

I don't need to show plenty of threads where you keypeg have gone off on tangents with others, if someone decides to use their negativity on me I will response, I don't really care who likes it or not.

[keypeg]

I don't need to show plenty of threads where you keypeg have gone off on tangents with others ...

Usually on the topic.  If I have done so off-topic, then I hope to be called on it.

[lostinidlewonder]

Yes usually you are, just like I am usually also on topic, you may have noticed since you have used internet discussion boards for many years that the chance for off-topic discussion does occur, that is the nature of the internet. In my own threads you have gone off on tangents with other members for pages at a time and I didn't complain continuously each step of the way, if you want some links I can PM you since there is no need to do that here right?

[Bob]

*Bob's thinking other piano building videos could be added in the thread.  The title can still work.*

[perfect_pitch]

*Bob's thinking other piano building videos could be added in the thread.  The title can still work.*

Like this???

[visitor]

[hbofinger]

Bosendorfer and Fazioli consistently beat out Steinway for classical in my book. For jazz, I'm a huge fan of Fazioli and Steinway.

What Steinway? A good Hamburg is unbeatable. I like Bösendorfer too, but it is a completely different beast altogether.