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Author Topic: Suggestions for major Impressionist work?  (Read 467 times)
beethovenfan01
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« on: October 06, 2017, 05:28:33 AM »

In about a month or so, I want to start a major impressionist piece (currently finishing up five different pieces, so will have a significant gap).

I'm considering:

Ravel, Jeaux d'Eau.

Debussy, Jardins sous la pluie, or Reflets dans l'eau (can you tell I like water-themed pieces?).

Scriabin Fantasy Op. 28 or a sonata (not sure which one yet ... and not sure if I should do a major Scriabin work until after having some other experience with him first. Any recommendations for a good one to start with that's not horribly long or hard, btw?).

Will be practicing this alongside:
Bach Prelude and Fugue No. 8, Bk. 1
Beethoven Sonata Op. 57
Chopin Etude Op. 10 No. 4 (maybe)
Liszt Dante Sonata
Prokofiev Toccata Op. 11

Kind of want to do something not Russian--nothing against Russian music, but I love Rachmaninoff too much ...
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Auditioning to U of O school of music:
Bach WTC Bk 1 No. 10
Beethoven Op. 81a (I.)
Rachmaninoff Op. 32 No. 10
Future:
Liszt Wilde Jagd, Dante, HR 6
Chopin Ballade 3
Beethoven Op. 57
Prokofiev
mjames
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2017, 07:16:50 AM »

Your repertoire would already make a major impression on most people.
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pianoville
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2017, 01:55:27 PM »

If you have never played Scriabin before, don't play a sonata or any late works. I made the miatake of starting with op 74, and I can't say it was the greatest decision I have made.
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visitor
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2017, 02:59:25 PM »

the Scriabin Sonata ('fantasie' op 28) is my favorite work in the entire solo literature, i will always vote for it when it's (and many times when not lol) an option.

it is hard to classify, not sure i'd place it in impressionist camp even if by chronology it fits the 'timeline'

hmm let me think about this and i'll post again later some options but my vote, because i have to vote for it is the Scrabin.

note - would not pick it if you are not looking for something horridly hard, not an easy piece by any means. i have the score i bought years ago on my desk always, still haven't ponied up to it....

would a neo impressionist work be ok? i need to look at my archives and see what pops up
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tnan123
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 04:43:44 PM »

Boy that is a lot of pieces you are working on at the same time. Your teacher is allowing you to add another? Definitely enough for a senior recital or even for a Masters recital perhaps.  Out of the one's you listed I think Debussy's Reflets dans l'eau is a good choice. Imo more approachable than Jeux d'eau.
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 04:52:12 PM »

i would consider (if you want to explore some wonderful less looked at but no less well crafted and ejoyable music) WG Still's suite - 7 Traceries. These are beautiful little tone pictures and worth exploring

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNLGBjcKNQkdngGWV6uyrPRMyTIbfTHeg
The seven tone poems in the suite Seven Traceries, Cloud Cradles, Mystic Pool, Muted Laughter, Out of the Silence, Woven Silver, Wailing Dawn, and A Bit of Wit, are mystical in both sound and intent. According to the composer’s daughter, they are actually seven musical portraits of God; they present to the hearer the “seven faces” of Divinity. The composer describes the various attributes of the Higher Power in terms of the natural landscape. In clouds, in pools, and in the rising sun, God is portrayed as a nurturer, as a teacher, as a humorist, as a stern commander, as a dazzling beauty, as an enthroned glory, and as a lighthearted onlooker. In all of these descriptions, William Grant Still’s deep reverence for the pictorial as well as for the spiritual is the cord that binds the seven little tone pictures together into a haunting and profound landscape.
Musicology:
7 Traceries, for piano
Year: 1939
Genre: Other Keyboard
Pr. Instrument: Piano
1.Cloud Cradles
2.Mystic Pool
3.Muted Laughter
4.Out of the Silence
5.Woven Silver
6.Wailing Dawn
7.Bit of Wit
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beethovenfan01
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 08:23:36 PM »

Quote
Boy that is a lot of pieces you are working on at the same time. Your teacher is allowing you to add another? Definitely enough for a senior recital or even for a Masters recital perhaps. 

Yeah, this is probably going to be my senior recital program next June ... Plus, I have a very broad taste in music, and I really, really, REALLY like all of these pieces! I may end up having to drop the Prokofiev, as it is easily turning out to be the meanest one of the bunch, and all for only four minutes of music ...

Quote
Out of the one's you listed I think Debussy's Reflets dans l'eau is a good choice. Imo more approachable than Jeux d'eau.

Thanks for the advice about the Debussy. I'm asking about this because I need something kind of light to intervene between the Dante sonata and the Prokofiev Toccata, and don't really want to do something Russian ...
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Auditioning to U of O school of music:
Bach WTC Bk 1 No. 10
Beethoven Op. 81a (I.)
Rachmaninoff Op. 32 No. 10
Future:
Liszt Wilde Jagd, Dante, HR 6
Chopin Ballade 3
Beethoven Op. 57
Prokofiev
mjames
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 09:01:23 PM »

Mompou- Preludes
Mompou - Passages
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beethovenfan01
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2017, 09:15:41 PM »

Hey, that is a good idea ... my chamber ensemble is doing an arrangement of the first movement of paysages, and I WAS thinking about learning the second movement to play with it at the recital. That's a good idea, thanks. Perhaps the Debussy will have to wait till December, after all ...
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Auditioning to U of O school of music:
Bach WTC Bk 1 No. 10
Beethoven Op. 81a (I.)
Rachmaninoff Op. 32 No. 10
Future:
Liszt Wilde Jagd, Dante, HR 6
Chopin Ballade 3
Beethoven Op. 57
Prokofiev
fftransform
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2017, 11:19:49 PM »

If you have never played Scriabin before, don't play a sonata or any late works. I made the miatake of starting with op 74, and I can't say it was the greatest decision I have made.

I disagree.  If the OP likes impressionist music they probably have the right mindset for late Scriabin.  Vers la Flamme is pretty learnable . . . I can't say it's easy, though.

Though if OP is playing the Apres un lecture and the Prokofiev Toccata, surely their own teacher would have better advice than we could.

For Debussy, you want to know what would go over really well, and be pretty easy?  Feuilles Mortes + General Lavine - Eccentric.  Those are both easy to make 'sound like Debussy' and are good music.
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aweshana21
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2017, 03:51:19 PM »

I like Ravel
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pianoville
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2017, 05:28:33 PM »

I disagree.  If the OP likes impressionist music they probably have the right mindset for late Scriabin.  Vers la Flamme is pretty learnable . . . I can't say it's easy, though.

Though if OP is playing the Apres un lecture and the Prokofiev Toccata, surely their own teacher would have better advice than we could.

For Debussy, you want to know what would go over really well, and be pretty easy?  Feuilles Mortes + General Lavine - Eccentric.  Those are both easy to make 'sound like Debussy' and are good music.

If you think Vers la Flamme is 'learnable' then I definetely do not think you understand what late Scriabin is all about. It is so much more than tremolos and weird rhytms. Once you have learned the notes you aren't even near done. In fact you have just started.

You need to have a lot of imagination for late Scriabin, because most late Scriabin pieces (especially sonatas) are very weird, both the harmonic language and the rhytms. You can't play these pieces without the proper understanding, no matter how perfectly you play it technically. That is why i don't think OP should touch late Scriabin without having more experience with his early pieces, because the early pieces are great pieces because they are basically the same style as the late pieces, they are just not as developed.

Also, Scriabin isn't impressionistic in the same sense as Debussy or ravel. Scriabins music is much more philosophic while the french impressionists are much more about colour. You can't compare them to each other.

With that said, I think OP should look at Scriabins poems, they are all awesome, and some are pretty easy.
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"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2017, 06:00:25 PM »

If you think Vers la Flamme is 'learnable' then I definetely do not think you understand what late Scriabin is all about. It is so much more than tremolos and weird rhytms. Once you have learned the notes you aren't even near done. In fact you have just started.

You need to have a lot of imagination for late Scriabin, because most late Scriabin pieces (especially sonatas) are very weird, both the harmonic language and the rhytms. You can't play these pieces without the proper understanding, no matter how perfectly you play it technically. That is why i don't think OP should touch late Scriabin without having more experience with his early pieces, because the early pieces are great pieces because they are basically the same style as the late pieces, they are just not as developed.

Also, Scriabin isn't impressionistic in the same sense as Debussy or ravel. Scriabins music is much more philosophic while the french impressionists are much more about colour. You can't compare them to each other.

With that said, I think OP should look at Scriabins poems, they are all awesome, and some are pretty easy.
I think you have misgauged fftransforms knowledge base and ability to analysis and speak about works.   
fftransforms dances circles around me when it comes to familiarity with the literature and especially so for anything from about 1800 through present day.
I've learned a ton from them, especially in my early years (before creation of this account/user name)
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beethovenfan01
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 04:46:20 AM »

Quote
Though if OP is playing the Apres un lecture and the Prokofiev Toccata, surely their own teacher would have better advice than we could.

Well the piece my teacher suggested was the Pour le Piano suite ...

And, as it turns out, the Dante, Op. 57, and Toccata are all going to have to wait a little while to be finished up, as my teacher wants me to do some smaller works first.
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Auditioning to U of O school of music:
Bach WTC Bk 1 No. 10
Beethoven Op. 81a (I.)
Rachmaninoff Op. 32 No. 10
Future:
Liszt Wilde Jagd, Dante, HR 6
Chopin Ballade 3
Beethoven Op. 57
Prokofiev
mjames
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 04:57:46 AM »

If you think Vers la Flamme is 'learnable' then I definetely do not think you understand what late Scriabin is all about. It is so much more than tremolos and weird rhytms. Once you have learned the notes you aren't even near done. In fact you have just started.

You need to have a lot of imagination for late Scriabin, because most late Scriabin pieces (especially sonatas) are very weird, both the harmonic language and the rhytms. You can't play these pieces without the proper understanding, no matter how perfectly you play it technically. That is why i don't think OP should touch late Scriabin without having more experience with his early pieces, because the early pieces are great pieces because they are basically the same style as the late pieces, they are just not as developed.

Also, Scriabin isn't impressionistic in the same sense as Debussy or ravel. Scriabins music is much more philosophic while the french impressionists are much more about colour. You can't compare them to each other.

With that said, I think OP should look at Scriabins poems, they are all awesome, and some are pretty easy.

Myth of linearity: that you need to play a composer's body of work in a "progressive order" to understand a single mature work. You don't. Also stop projecting your failures on others.

La danse de Puck is not a major work, but it's really fun to play. Cheesy
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outin
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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2017, 05:20:00 AM »

To really understand dear Alexander you should be able to talk to the dead... but it helps to listen to his whole output. And it helps to be a bit weird I think...like mjames and me Wink

I wouldn't call his late music impressionism though, he just used some similar elements...imo you can only classify it as...Scriabin.
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My summer projects: Scarlatti K87, K466, K109, Scriabin op74 preludes, Chopin Waltz 69-2 and Berceuse. And just exploring more music...
pianoville
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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2017, 09:29:45 PM »

Myth of linearity: that you need to play a composer's body of work in a "progressive order" to understand a single mature work. You don't. Also stop projecting your failures on others.

La danse de Puck is not a major work, but it's really fun to play. Cheesy

I think I will have to disagree with you. Even though you don't have to learn the pieces in progressive order, a good knowledge of a composers different periods will help when tackling major works such as the late Scriabin sonatas.

And yes, Le danse de Puck is a very fun piece to play, especially compared to the killer prelude feux d'artifice...
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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2017, 09:35:00 PM »

play the Baines 7 preludes  Cool
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2017, 09:36:43 PM »

Mompou was heavily influenced by French flavor of impressionism, lots of good stuff over in his sandbox to play with
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rachmaninoff_forever
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« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2017, 11:11:01 PM »

Gaspard is pretty easy why don't you give it a shot
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beethovenfan01
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2017, 07:38:57 PM »

Quote
Gaspard is pretty easy why don't you give it a shot

Sarcasm, I think ...?

Well I DID spend an hour last night working on the thirds etude and it didn't seem near as hard as its reputation suggests ... Maybe that's just 'cause I haven't gotten into the meat of trying to get it up to tempo, but it actually seems pretty straightforward, and it actually fits my hand really well. How hintoresting.
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Auditioning to U of O school of music:
Bach WTC Bk 1 No. 10
Beethoven Op. 81a (I.)
Rachmaninoff Op. 32 No. 10
Future:
Liszt Wilde Jagd, Dante, HR 6
Chopin Ballade 3
Beethoven Op. 57
Prokofiev
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2017, 09:46:57 PM »

Sarcasm, I think ...?

Well I DID spend an hour last night working on the thirds etude and it didn't seem near as hard as its reputation suggests ... Maybe that's just 'cause I haven't gotten into the meat of trying to get it up to tempo, but it actually seems pretty straightforward, and it actually fits my hand really well. How hintoresting.

lol yeah I was kidding

But I do think the OP should give it a shot.  I don't think difficulty should deter anyone from trying anything

Additionally the gaspard is harder than it looks.  And it already looks almost impossible anyways lol
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beethovenfan01
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2017, 11:35:30 PM »

Quote
lol yeah I was kidding

But I do think the OP should give it a shot.  I don't think difficulty should deter anyone from trying anything

Additionally the gaspard is harder than it looks.  And it already looks almost impossible anyways lol
The Gaspard is definitely on my list; however, I'm looking to build up my rep of similar pieces, so that I can kind of head towards it. You're not the first person to suggest it to me, though: the other was Yekwon Sunwoo!
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Auditioning to U of O school of music:
Bach WTC Bk 1 No. 10
Beethoven Op. 81a (I.)
Rachmaninoff Op. 32 No. 10
Future:
Liszt Wilde Jagd, Dante, HR 6
Chopin Ballade 3
Beethoven Op. 57
Prokofiev
rachmaninoff_forever
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« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2017, 12:14:33 AM »

I'm looking at your signature what the heck is U of O

University of Ohio?
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beethovenfan01
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« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2017, 05:52:45 AM »

University of Oregon ...
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Auditioning to U of O school of music:
Bach WTC Bk 1 No. 10
Beethoven Op. 81a (I.)
Rachmaninoff Op. 32 No. 10
Future:
Liszt Wilde Jagd, Dante, HR 6
Chopin Ballade 3
Beethoven Op. 57
Prokofiev
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