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Yuja Wangs dresses... (Read 21277 times)

Offline stevensk

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #100 on: December 07, 2017, 11:35:02 AM »


As far as Prokofiev 2--yes, she is fine, but in a sense very limited... not nearly on the same level as titanic performances of say, Yakov Zak, Bolet, or Horazio Guttierez...  

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-That typical youtube "expert" comment

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #101 on: December 07, 2017, 12:08:06 PM »
Alistair,

In fact, if you look more carefully, that was response to MY message, so I would think Pianoville was rather agreeing with me, rather than you. That's being said, it doesn't necessarily mean Pianoville disagrees with you, it is just that my idea was a bit different...
Mea culpa; my mistake! However, it does seem from the discussion between the three of us that we are all in broad agreement over the subject matter!

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #102 on: December 07, 2017, 12:08:51 PM »
-That typical youtube "expert" comment
Or it might be a personal opinion, might it not?...

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Alistair
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Offline dogperson

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #103 on: December 07, 2017, 12:51:49 PM »
-That typical youtube "expert" comment


If you read Marik’s posts, there is a great deal of credentials behind this opinion.   There does not seem to be any reason for your put down. 

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #104 on: December 07, 2017, 01:33:19 PM »


If you read Marik’s posts, there is a great deal of credentials behind this opinion.   There does not seem to be any reason for your put down. 

I agree. There are a lot of based idiots on the Internet, but Marik is not one of them.
"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #105 on: December 07, 2017, 01:53:20 PM »
Mea culpa; my mistake! However, it does seem from the discussion between the three of us that we are all in broad agreement over the subject matter!

Best,

Alistair

Everybody makes mistakes! And yes, I think our opinions on this subject are pretty similar!
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Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #106 on: December 07, 2017, 02:42:02 PM »
I believe, her appearance is a marketing strategy of her managers and frankly, IMHO, beneath of her. She doesn't need it to prove she plays piano well enough. On the other hand, it is an indication of her approach and general cultural level, which one can hear in her music making. Again, just try to imagine Rosalyn Turek, Helen Grimaud, or Maria Joao Pires getting on stage in mini...


A marketing strategy, which is working pretty well, if we take the number of posts on the topic as a microcosm of its impact!

Her image is a sign of the times though. MTV, the general depiction of women in the media, etc, all much different from 50 years ago. I suppose Eileen Joyce played upon her feminine image, but I can't think of any others offhand.

I'd rather see Yuja Wang play Prokofiev wearing not very much than Alexander Toradze in a mankini!!  ::)

Apologies for that, everyone  ;D

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #107 on: December 07, 2017, 03:41:49 PM »
A marketing strategy, which is working pretty well, if we take the number of posts on the topic as a microcosm of its impact!


When creating this topic I knew there would be a lot of posts. Just make a topic about girls and everyone will be interested  ;D
"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #108 on: December 07, 2017, 03:49:45 PM »
A marketing strategy, which is working pretty well, if we take the number of posts on the topic as a microcosm of its impact!

Her image is a sign of the times though. MTV, the general depiction of women in the media, etc, all much different from 50 years ago. I suppose Eileen Joyce played upon her feminine image, but I can't think of any others offhand.

I'd rather see Yuja Wang play Prokofiev wearing not very much than Alexander Toradze in a mankini!!  ::)

Apologies for that, everyone  ;D
Oh, I don't think there's any real need for an apology in that regard; after all, it's not as though you've said that you'd actually want to see either!

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #109 on: December 07, 2017, 03:52:24 PM »
Just make a topic about girls and everyone will be interested  ;D
Well, that's as maybe, although I assumed that there would be plenty of female members here; that said, Lang Lang's exaggerated gestures when playing were also mentioned (albeit only en passant) and they relate to the subject of the physical approaches to piano playing that are a fundamental aspect of, even if not the entire rationale for, this thread!

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Alistair
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Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #110 on: December 07, 2017, 04:02:46 PM »
Lang Lang's exaggerated gestures when playing were also mentioned

I have to admit, Lang Lang's gestures annoys me, but he is barely even associated with his piano playing anymore (horrible as it is) but instead people only care about his facial expressions etc. I mean that isn't even what music is about! Many people dislike his "playing" just becuase of his faces, and they are in my opinion a disgrace to the classical community.
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Offline mjames

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #111 on: December 07, 2017, 04:26:31 PM »


If you read Marik’s posts, there is a great deal of credentials behind this opinion.   There does not seem to be any reason for your put down.  

Yes there is, read: Yuja Wang's Prokofiev 2nd is "very limited." Probably one of the greatest performers of the work in this generation alone, and after reading about how her body and dressing distracts him from her music, it's not far-fetched to say he holds a bias against her.

Not to mention it's quite common for old folks to call East Asian performers limited in expression, when it's far from being the truth.  ::) ::)

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #112 on: December 07, 2017, 04:33:25 PM »
Yes there is, read: Yuja Wang's Prokofiev 2nd is "very limited." Probably one of the greatest performers of the work in this generation alone, and after reading about how her body and dressing distracts him from her music, it's not far-fetched to say he holds a bias against her.

Not to mention it's quite common for old folks to call East Asian performers limited in expression, when it's far from being the truth.  ::) ::)

Very limited is definetely an overexaggeration. I love Yuja in Prokofiev 2 but I don't know anyone that thinks she does it better than Gutierrez. Also, let Marik have his own opinion. Just becuase you like her doesn't mean everyone has to.
"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline mjames

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #113 on: December 07, 2017, 04:39:20 PM »
Very limited is definetely an overexaggeration. I love Yuja in Prokofiev 2 but I don't know anyone that thinks she does it better than Gutierrez. Also, let Marik have his own opinion. Just becuase you like her doesn't mean everyone has to.

Why won't you let me have my own opinion?  ::) ::)

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #114 on: December 07, 2017, 04:46:02 PM »
Why won't you let me have my own opinion?  ::) ::)

I don't remember doing that
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #115 on: December 07, 2017, 04:52:20 PM »
I don't remember doing that
I've heard a number of pianists in what to me is Prokofiev's finest piano concerto including Yuja but I'm by no means conviencved that she is the best of them.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline visitor

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #116 on: December 07, 2017, 05:07:08 PM »
*anime Yuja continues to follow thread progress

Offline mjames

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #117 on: December 07, 2017, 05:08:06 PM »
Wait is that senjougahara? LOL how is she like Yuja?

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #118 on: December 07, 2017, 05:44:24 PM »
*anime Yuja continues to follow thread progress


That is pretty hilarious ;D
"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #119 on: December 07, 2017, 05:45:29 PM »
I've heard a number of pianists in what to me is Prokofiev's finest piano concerto including Yuja but I'm by no means conviencved that she is the best of them.

Best,

Alistair

Gutierrez for the win!
"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline marik1

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #120 on: December 07, 2017, 09:46:10 PM »
Well, we must agree to disagree in part on that. Yes, the actual mechanics of what he does to produce the sound are indeed economical, that very fact makes the remaining physical histronics all the more absurd and, in any case, they're counter-productive in technical terms.

Alistair,

My reply was to your original message where you mentioned that "long term medical risks". Those medical risks usually expected when there is some physical tension or inefficiency of pianistic apparatus. Lang Lang's has very relaxed, economical and natural approach to the keyboard, so I would not expect his mimics, or gestures (however ridiculous and out of context they are) somehow become medical risks, which was my point.

It would be worth to mention there are some pianists who do have quite excessive gestures. Grigory Sokolov and Glenn Gould immediately come to mind. Of course, by no means that was on the way of their artistry, let alone presented any medical risks, or conditions.

Best, M

Offline mjames

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #121 on: December 07, 2017, 10:09:24 PM »
Gutierrez for the win!

Except I wasn't even arguing that Yuja was better or the best. ::) ::) ::)
But I'm going to go ahead and say it anyways, her performances are better.

Offline marik1

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #122 on: December 07, 2017, 10:21:05 PM »
Yes there is, read: Yuja Wang's Prokofiev 2nd is "very limited." Probably one of the greatest performers of the work in this generation alone,

This is only an opinion. While she plays it fine (as I already mentioned), has wonderful technical abilities, sensitive and musical enough to play this concerto well, in my opinion, she doesn't have enough real physical power, or deep insights to express all intellectual and emotional depth of this gargantuan piece. Without those rather important qualities I do not believe it would be enough to call it "one of the greatest...". I believe, that say, Matsuev (the pianist whom I do not necessarily like, but who is from her generation) by far closer to something what I'd call "great performer of this work".

and after reading about how her body and dressing distracts him from her music, it's not far-fetched to say he holds a bias against her.

That is an assumption, which doesn't have any basis. I do not have any bias against her. On the contrary, I've always been saying that she is very fine pianist and I am very happy she makes big and well deserved career. As for her stage appearance, in my book it is just an indication of her education and cultural preferences, which no doubt, inevitably reflect in music making--after all we play ourselves and who we are. So in the end, some reservations about her artistry expressed in this thread and her appearance in a sense indeed, well connected. Of course, those reservations by no means take anything from her and her excellent qualities, which she has plenty...

Not to mention it's quite common for old folks to call East Asian performers limited in expression, when it's far from being the truth.  ::) ::)

Once again, an assumption, with no any basis. First, I am not that old... well... I am not exactly young, but to call me old would be quite a stretch--I still hope to have quite a few happy years before I get to that stage. Second, I do not judge performers by their ethnicity, country of birth, or geographical location. While it is true, there is a number of Asian (or for that matter, any other ethnicity) performers, which are limited in expression, there also is a fair number of those, who in fact, are very expressive (some, as in case with Lang Lang, for example, absurdly expressive), so no need to assume.

Best, M

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #123 on: December 08, 2017, 07:49:08 AM »
Alistair,

My reply was to your original message where you mentioned that "long term medical risks". Those medical risks usually expected when there is some physical tension or inefficiency of pianistic apparatus. Lang Lang's has very relaxed, economical and natural approach to the keyboard, so I would not expect his mimics, or gestures (however ridiculous and out of context they are) somehow become medical risks, which was my point.

It would be worth to mention there are some pianists who do have quite excessive gestures. Grigory Sokolov and Glenn Gould immediately come to mind. Of course, by no means that was on the way of their artistry, let alone presented any medical risks, or conditions.

Best, M
I wasn't suggesting that Lang Lang's exaggerated gestures are likely to cause medical issues later in life - that observation was confined to the kind of shoes that Yuja wears to play - but I would suggest that they make life more difficult for him as a pianist because all of one's physical energies need to be devoted to playing when so doing, just as do all one's mental energies.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline keypeg

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #124 on: December 08, 2017, 06:50:05 PM »
When creating this topic I knew there would be a lot of posts. Just make a topic about girls and everyone will be interested  ;D
Why would girls be interested in a topic about girls. It's extremely boring.  How about making a topic about good looking guys.  Then everyone would be interested.

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #125 on: December 08, 2017, 07:42:27 PM »
Why would girls be interested in a topic about girls. It's extremely boring.  How about making a topic about good looking guys.  Then everyone would be interested.

I think your argument is pretty dumb. First you say that not everyone would be interested cause there are girls here, but then you say that if we would discuss guys everyone would be interested, even though most of the members here are guys...
"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline keypeg

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #126 on: December 08, 2017, 08:59:29 PM »
I think your argument is pretty dumb. First you say that not everyone would be interested cause there are girls here, but then you say that if we would discuss guys everyone would be interested, even though most of the members here are guys...
I was being ironic, and you missed the point.  You had written "Just make a topic about girls and everyone will be interested."
I'm a girl.  If you make a topic about girls, there is no reason for me to be interested.  I reversed the statement to make a point.  If I said "everyone will be interested" if the topic is about a good looking guy, you'd go "huh? Why would I be interested?"
You also don't know what percentage of members is male or female.  You've taken on the name "pianoville".  For all I know, you could be a lady.  ;)  See what I mean?                                                                                                     

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #127 on: December 08, 2017, 09:37:12 PM »
Why would girls be interested in a topic about girls. It's extremely boring.  How about making a topic about good looking guys.  Then everyone would be interested.

Are there any good looking male pianists?

Offline mjames

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #128 on: December 08, 2017, 09:47:20 PM »
Are there any good looking male pianists?

inb4 outin says rach4ever

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #129 on: December 08, 2017, 09:50:55 PM »
Are there any good looking male pianists?
I neither know nor care; should anyone?

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Alistair
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Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #130 on: December 08, 2017, 10:22:24 PM »
I was being ironic, and you missed the point.  You had written "Just make a topic about girls and everyone will be interested."
I'm a girl.  If you make a topic about girls, there is no reason for me to be interested.  I reversed the statement to make a point.  If I said "everyone will be interested" if the topic is about a good looking guy, you'd go "huh? Why would I be interested?"
You also don't know what percentage of members is male or female.  You've taken on the name "pianoville".  For all I know, you could be a lady.  ;)  See what I mean?                                                                                                     

Oh, I completely misunderstood you! Sorry!
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Offline outin

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #131 on: December 08, 2017, 11:22:33 PM »
inb4 outin says rach4ever

He's indeed quite handsome...

I've seen a few others, but generally I concentrate on the sound more.

Offline beethovenfan01

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #132 on: December 08, 2017, 11:23:48 PM »
Like most of these kinds of posts on pianostreet, I find this one both entertaining and mostly worthless reading ...
Practicing:
Bach Chromatic Fantasie and Fugue
Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 1
Shostakovich Preludes Op. 34
Scriabin Etude Op. 2 No. 1
Liszt Fantasie and Fugue on BACH

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #133 on: December 09, 2017, 12:16:37 AM »
I've seen a few others, but generally I concentrate on the sound more.

Of course.

I was just curious because there are at least a handful of very attractive female pianists getting a lot of attention these days but I haven't noticed that same phenomenon happening for male pianists.


Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #134 on: December 09, 2017, 12:18:46 AM »
I neither know nor care; should anyone?

I don't think there is anything wrong with noticing that someone is good looking. You don't want to judge them based on that but we aren't robots. There's no harm in making the observation is there?

Offline mjames

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #135 on: December 09, 2017, 01:14:33 AM »
Of course.

I was just curious because there are at least a handful of very attractive female pianists getting a lot of attention these days but I haven't noticed that same phenomenon happening for male pianists.



because culture. we (men AND women) just tend to place more importance on women's appearances than we to men regardless of the circumstances; whether it's acting, teaching, sports, piano playing, or science appearance is important. Men just don't get the same treatment.

also women get more freedom in choosing their appearances, especially in the concert hall. Flowery dresses, hot dresses, skirts, kimonos etc with diverse hairstyles too. meanwhile guys usually wear black suits, a daring one would go for a white one.  ::) ::)




Offline outin

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #136 on: December 09, 2017, 04:37:10 AM »
because culture. we (men AND women) just tend to place more importance on women's appearances than we to men regardless of the circumstances; whether it's acting, teaching, sports, piano playing, or science appearance is important. Men just don't get the same treatment.

also women get more freedom in choosing their appearances,  :)especially in the concert hall. Flowery dresses, hot dresses, skirts, kimonos etc with diverse hairstyles too. meanwhile guys usually wear black suits, a daring one would go for a white one.  ::) ::)
The dress code is indeed unequal.
Personally whatever the sex, I just don't want to see too much skin. But by all means, let your hair flow freely boys! ;)

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #137 on: December 09, 2017, 05:19:48 AM »
I don't think there is anything wrong with noticing that someone is good looking. You don't want to judge them based on that but we aren't robots. There's no harm in making the observation is there?
No, I guess not in moe general terms, but we are on a piano forum discussing pianists and piano playing!

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Alistair
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Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #138 on: December 09, 2017, 05:50:38 AM »
But by all means, let your hair flow freely boys! ;)

Alas, if only I could. :P

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #139 on: December 09, 2017, 05:54:04 AM »
No, I guess not in moe general terms, but we are on a piano forum discussing pianists and piano playing!

Haha, no we're not. We're on a piano forum discussing discussing Yuja Wang's choice of outfit. ;)

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #140 on: December 09, 2017, 06:07:59 AM »
Are there any good looking male pianists?

I'm out for a few days and this thread is still going on?


But to answer your question...

Well well well...  LOOK NO FURTHER!

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Offline deandeblock

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #141 on: December 13, 2017, 08:27:42 PM »
About Yuja


I think she's hot!



She wouldn't have to ask me twice plus look at her ankles! very important
work hard, play hard

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #142 on: December 13, 2017, 11:11:49 PM »
About Juja


I think she's hot!



She wouldn't have to ask me twice plus look at her ankles! very important
I couldn't care less about them other than that he shoes must be a nuisance to her playing. I find her about as "hot" as a cup of coffee that was served half an hour ago. That said, she's a fine pianist who has no need to dress as she does.

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Alistair
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Offline mjames

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #143 on: December 14, 2017, 01:16:48 AM »
That said, she's a fine pianist who has no need to dress as she does.

Best,

Alistair

Neither do most women, they do it because they want to.





Offline outin

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #144 on: December 14, 2017, 04:22:52 AM »
Neither do most women, they do it because they want to.


Sometimes they do, sometimes they feel they need to... and It has always astonished me how much people's tastes can rely on other people's opinions, whether in music or clothes.

I think choosing to dress revealingly does affect the demographic of one's audience. There's nothing hot in that picture for me, but lets put R4 in that dress... ;D

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #145 on: December 14, 2017, 10:08:21 AM »
Neither do most women, they do it because they want to.
Well, whilst I don't think that anyone here was suggesting that her dress code is being forced upon her, it's what she does or does not need to do rather than what she might want to do (for whatever reasons or none) that's under discussion here - and, in any case, if she did need to dress as she does, why don't other female pianists need to do the same or similar?

By the way and or what it may or may not be worth, I'd describe her appearance as tepid rather than "hot" (as some have suggested).

Best,

Alistair
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #146 on: December 14, 2017, 05:53:57 PM »
You sure have a lot to say for someone who doesn't care about how she dresses
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #147 on: December 14, 2017, 10:00:56 PM »
You sure have a lot to say for someone who doesn't care about how she dresses
I didn't say that I don't care about this per se; I merely pointed out that the way that she dresses for performance is unnecessary and adds nothing toi the quality of her pianism.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #148 on: December 15, 2017, 12:12:37 AM »
Alistair, perhaps you would like to comment on Stephen Hough's choice of outfit.



Surely such a stiff jacket is restricting the movement of his arms. How could it not? I find it completely unnecessary and it adds nothing the the quality of his pianism. Why doesn't he wear a simple t-shirt, track pants, and trainers ensemble?

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #149 on: December 15, 2017, 06:38:07 AM »
Alistair, perhaps you would like to comment on Stephen Hough's choice of outfit.



Surely such a stiff jacket is restricting the movement of his arms. How could it not? I find it completely unnecessary and it adds nothing the the quality of his pianism. Why doesn't he wear a simple t-shirt, track pants, and trainers ensemble?
I agree that it certainly looks that way, but he could wear something more comfortable that would not restrict his arm movements without resorting to the t-shirt / tgrack pants / trainers ensemble that you mention. That said, I rather doubt that audience members would notice what he's wearing from where they're sitting (you'd have to be as close as the position from where your photograph was taken to do this) because, whatever else it might do, it doesn't exactly draw audience attention to his attire; that's the other difference!

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive