Yuja Wangs dresses...

[ahinton]

meanwhile lola shows how dressing to help play moonlight  sonata works

Er - how does it "help"?...

Best,

Alistair

[visitor]

Er - how does it "help"?...

Best,

Alistair

I think the cello exhaust is on Hauser's left side,  there has to be an incredible amount of heat coming out towards her  so I guess she dresses for the temperature and conditions . performance wear so to speak lol

[ahinton]

I think the cello exhaust is on Hauser's left side,  there has to be an incredible amount of heat coming out towards her  so I guess she dresses for the temperature and conditions . performance wear so to speak lol

I wouldn't know or be prepared to speculate on that but the arrangement itself does the piece no favours in any case...

Best,

Alistair

[keypeg]

Every time I click on "new responses to your replies" there is this stupid thread again.  Is there a way to opt out?  Or are we condemned to be brought forever to any thread where we once replied?

[ahinton]

Every time I click on "new responses to your replies" there is this stupid thread again.  Is there a way to opt out?  Or are we condemned to be brought forever to any thread where we once replied?

You'd have to ask Nils for the definitive answer to that but, in the meantime, I suspect that, once you've contributed, it all keeps coming back to you because you've done so.

I have no idea who LoLa and Hauser are but I pity the former for the excruciating pain that those ridiculous heels must cause when she attempts to operate the pedals if those ugly photographs of her stance at the instrument are anything by which to go.

Anyway, it all seems to have departed quite some distance from Yuja's apparel choices, n'est-ce pas?...

Best,

Alistair

[furiouzpianist]

Is there something that is objectively “the best” in the arts?

Not sure we can say that,..

Yuja’s playing is incredibly reliable

[mrcreosote]

I wonder if  Martha was criticized when she was young?  One could definitely accuse her of being sultry even by today's standards - but back then... va va VOOM!

[ahinton]

I wonder if  Martha was criticized when she was young?  One could definitely accuse her of being sultry even by today's standards - but back then... va va VOOM!

I don't know if that was the case but I've never heard such criticism directed towards her at any time, so maybe she didn't receive any of that kind. That said, overall looks are one thing whereas performance dress sense is another and it is ony the latter that's being discussed here (although I suspect that there's little more to be said about it at this point)...

Best,

Alistair

[Bob]

Well, blunt thoughts?

Hey, there's a female leg.

Ugh, look at her face.  Wait, is that a man?  Was I just looking at a man leg?  Maybe she's wearing the dress to show she's not a man?  Except it still could be a man.  Those arms look thicker.  That could be a man.  I just won't look toward the leg.  But... there is it, the leg.  That could be a man in a dress playing the piano.  *Bob scrolls down google images.* Look, there's a violinist and that's a man.  Or is that her?  No, I think it's someone else.  Yeah, it's somoene else... who is a man, but looks very similar to her.  Now someone's going to accuse me of being "lookish" or something.

Butterface also came to mind, but... There's the face but I wouldn't study out more... Because the build is... like a man too.  It could be a man in a dress.






That's my thought process. That's from a google image image and glancing at replies here.  


Six pages?  I'm not even glancing through that.


Just based on the images, I don't think her appearance-impression is probably what she thinks she was pulling off.  Conservative, non-distracting clothing is always good to emphasize the music.  If I were sitting an audience, even if I bothered to click on a video, I'm going to be thinking, "Yeah but... Is that a man?"

[furiouzpianist]

I don't mind her flashy outfits because I forget about them once she starts playing

[xdjuicebox]

One of these days I'm going to wear a dress and perform and see what happens

But first I have to get good at this instrument

Darn

[dfrankjazz]

The overall effect was a bit too much for me when I saw her at Carnegie last week. We sat on the stage, and the combination of the greatest piano playing i ever heard and the minidress with the legs writhing at the intense passages left me somewhat ill!

[keypeg]

You might feel different when you have reached  puberty, but perhaps not.

Perhaps if enough people hit the complaint button about all the personal remarks in this thread (the above being one of many), maybe these comments would all be removed, and the mods might have a word with the writer?

[pianoville]

Perhaps if enough people hit the complaint button about all the personal remarks in this thread (the above being one of many), maybe these comments would all be removed, and the mods might have a word with the writer?

Or even better, remove the entire thread...

[beethovenfan01]

This thread ... 

[keypeg]

Or even better, remove the entire thread...

Yup.

[klavieronin]

Perhaps if enough people hit the complaint button about all the personal remarks in this thread (the above being one of many), maybe these comments would all be removed, and the mods might have a word with the writer?

Not letting people speak out of fear that they might cause offence seems like the perfect way to kill a forum. Why not let the conversation continue and allow the sensible and reasonable comments to simply trump the immature and poorly thought out ones?

[keypeg]

I was reacting to some specific posts, which each were attacking a member.  There is no reason ever to talk about whether a member has reached puberty, or denigrate their character, while discussing things of music.  Btw, that kind of behaviour also kills a forum.  When you see people being attacked, there is a tendency to shy away, and some people when attacked then get silenced.

[klavieronin]

I was reacting to some specific posts, which each were attacking a member.  There is no reason ever to talk about whether a member has reached puberty, or denigrate their character, while discussing things of music.  Btw, that kind of behaviour also kills a forum.  When you see people being attacked, there is a tendency to shy away, and some people when attacked then get silenced.

I see your point now. I thought you were talking about something else. Personal attacks and bullying will definitely kill a forum as well.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I was reacting to some specific posts, which each were attacking a member.  There is no reason ever to talk about whether a member has reached puberty, or denigrate their character, while discussing things of music.  Btw, that kind of behaviour also kills a forum.  When you see people being attacked, there is a tendency to shy away, and some people when attacked then get silenced.

Ever since Thal said his true feelings about black people he went completely MIA

[mjames]

One of these days I'm going to wear a dress and perform and see what happens

But first I have to get good at this instrument

Darn

The world of classical music can hardly handle women in revealing clothing, heck they're still trying to adjust to different "races" being on stage (see racist comments about Asians being robotic in basically every comment section), you think they're ready to handle LGBT groups? You might unwittingly start a lynch mob.

[outin]

The world of classical music can hardly handle women in revealing clothing, heck they're still trying to adjust to different "races" being on stage (see racist comments about Asians being robotic in basically every comment section), you think they're ready to handle LGBT groups? You might unwittingly start a lynch mob.

I have absolutely nothing against men wearing dresses, I think they earned the right to that when they allowed women to wear trousers. I'll be happy to donate all mine that I never wear...I just do not care to see too much skin on either sex when watching them play (excluding my favorite shirtless pianist of course). Otherwise they can wear whatever they like as long as it doesn't smell too much...I like to sit in the front close to the piano.

[bernadette60614]

Simply put...what she wears  is not what people expect to see a serious pianist wearing.

[outin]

Simply put...what she wears  is not what people expect to see a serious pianist wearing.

That is probably very true. But the question remains: Should it be?

I am drawn with my own opinions because there are similar issues with the music itself: Only experimenting will take music further and sometimes the experiments go so far that only time will tell if they ever lead to anything widely valued. So resistance is inevitable because it's not what is expected from "serious" musicians. Good to remember though that some of today's classics had similar treatment at their time...

It's best to just avoid things that one finds too annoying to ever learn to enjoy...trying to convince others that they are wrong or worthless is useless.

[Bob]

I think this is the thread I was looking for.... 

I think the pianist is serious about her clothing choice, but... She would know.  Everyone else would know.  I was wondering if they would hire her again, either way.  Or did they know and then hire her?


I guess that's her thing.  It's always a trio.  But in 20+ years....?


Related.  Found this.  She's changed a bit.  I liked Thal's comment.  Haha.
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=40174.0
Khatia Buniatishvili

[johnlewisgrant]

I am getting VERY tired of people judging pianists because how they look or what they wear. Especially with Yuja Wang. You can't even go to a video of Yuja Wang on youtube without negative comments about what she wears. I just wonder, why the f*ck does anyone care what she wears? Why does it even matter? It is not like she wears those short dresses for attention. She wears them because that is what she is comfortable wearing. And to those who say that her. dresses detract from her playing, why can't you just close your eyes and listen? I personally think this is one of the biggest problems with the classical music community, and it needs to change.

What are your thoughts on this?

You know the saying:

My son went to a Yuja Wang concert as a boy. 

He came back a man.

[ahinton]

You know the saying:

My son went to a Yuja Wang concert as a boy. 

He came back a man.

No, I didn't know, it, actually; is it an ancient Chinese proverb?...

Best,

Alistair

[johnlewisgrant]

An amusing discussion.  A serious issue WAS raised above: Are there objective standards against which a musical performance can be assessed?  If a putative “ yes” can be given to this question, then we can evaluate, and even enjoy, a performance for reasons that are independent of “apparel,” and other extra-musical or extrinsic factors. At latest in theory. 

While there are widely accepted conventions about what MIGHT distinguish a great performance from a mediocre one, the existence of “objective” standards seems to me a difficult claim to make.

Ergo, if attire inter alia affects a listener’s aesthetic pleasure, then that’s a risk performers will have to accept.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Within the entire topic of contemporary classical piano, I literally cannot think of anything more uninteresting and more inconsequential than what Yuja Wang is wearing.

[johnlewisgrant]

Within the entire topic of contemporary classical piano, I literally cannot think of anything more uninteresting and more inconsequential than what Yuja Wang is wearing.

INDEED!

[cuberdrift]

I find this sort of controversiality to be a by-product of the conservatism of much of the classical music community. I feel that most aficionados today are hardly representative of "Romantic" ideals and, let's be frank, today's artists aren't exactly modern-day equivalents of Beethoven. We tend to be replicators more than creators. I've had moments where I felt that performers in popular music seem closer to the true spirit of the old composer than the usual perfectionistic, competition-winning interpreter.

[thalbergmad]

I woild like to know how much she can squat.

With them quads, probably about 320

[ahinton]

I woild like to know how much she can squat.

With them quads, probably about 320

I prefer to remain happy in my ignorance of that statistic, whatever it might be...

Best,

Alistair

[visitor]

I woild like to know how much she can squat.

With them quads, probably about 320

[aclaussen]

Deleted

[nickc]

You people crack me up.

[Bob]

I think this one might belong here.       Only because it looks like, at a glance, that that's the performer's youtube channel and she's saying that's "insanely fast."   I wasn't aware I also played that "insanely fast" and sloppy.   

[thalbergmad]

Her legs are almost certainly more talented than her fingers.

Thal

[ahinton]

Her legs are almost certainly more talented than her fingers.

!!!

I don't know, actually - as I do not know what her legs actually do, I'm in no position to say - but her fingers aren't so bad. Whilst the manner in which she presents herself as a performer is often questionable, I don't believe that she does this kind of thing in a bid to cover up inadequacies as a pianist. As I think I mentioned some time ago, I listened to her performing the three Brahms sonatas for violin and piano with Leonidas Kavakos and have to say that her contributions to these were models of sensitivity and restriant and the very opposite of showy or glitzy.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I was referring to the performance above and not Wang.

Thal

[ahinton]

I was referring to the performance above and not Wang.

Sorry, I'd not appreciated that. Now that I do, thanks, I can see just what you mean. The performance is by no means "insanely fast" nor (more importantly) is it good - very much the reverse, in fact.

Best,

Alistair

[cuberdrift]

I think this one might belong here.       Only because it looks like, at a glance, that that's the performer's youtube channel and she's saying that's "insanely fast."   I wasn't aware I also played that "insanely fast" and sloppy.   

The true master of speed here is none other than the Canadian Glenn Gould.

[minor9th]

The one time I saw her was with the LA Phil--she wore a long gown. I guess one of her normal slutty outfits would not work with a Mozart Piano Concerto. (I think it was No. 25 or 27...obviously didn't make much of an impression.)

[avguste]

The truth of the matter is simple.

1. sex always sells

2. Yuja Wang is a wonderful pianist

3. the way Wang and other female pianists dress is their choice and no one has any business  commenting negatively about it.

4. some female pianists (will not give names) should not dress sexy to simply cover their lack of abilities.

[ahinton]

The truth of the matter is simple.

1. sex always sells

2. Yuja Wang is a wonderful pianist

3. the way Wang and other female pianists dress is their choice and no one has any business  commenting negatively about it.

4. some female pianists (will not give names) should not dress sexy to simply cover their lack of abilities.

To comment on your four points in turn:

1. "sex always sells" what?

2. Yuja Wang is a fine pianist indeed but not quite a top flight one

3. People are entitled to comment on the concert apparel of anyone, rightly or wrongly; Yuja's is of little interest to me (as I don't have to watch her), my only real concern being for the sheer impracticality of and discomfort (and potential long term damage to her) done by the absurd shoes that she seems quite often to wear when playing

4. Yuja has never dressed in a way that might for some conceal her pianistic abilities.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

She is not a top flight pianist.
Having heard Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano sonata played by both her and Jonathon Powell, she is not even close.
Power, tone, shades of pianissimo and mechanical facility she comes 2nd by some margin.
She has the nicer arse. That is it.
Thal

[ahinton]

She is not a top flight pianist.
Having heard Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano sonata played by both her and Jonathon Powell, she is not even close.
Power, tone, shades of pianissimo and mechanical facility she comes 2nd by some margin.
She has the nicer arse. That is it.

I confess that I have never given much thought to the posteriors of either Yuja or Jonathan - still less sought to compare them - and, although I've heard Jonathan in the original (and, to my mind, finer) version of Rachmaninoff's B flat minor Sonata, I've not heard Yuja play it (which version does she play?). I think that she's a fine pianist but "top flight"? I agree that she is not that. Jonathan, on the other hand, is truly extraordinary and has a wider and more eclectic repertoire than Yuja; indeed, I cannot immediately call to mind any other pianist who performs Liszt, Alkan, Busoni, Rachmaninoff and Medtner as well as Sorabji and Finnissy (and I have the great good fortune that he has performed no less than four of my piano works which, for what it may or may not be worth, Yuja has never done).

Best,

Alistair

[keypeg]

The truth of the matter ......

The truth of the matter is that this thread largely resembles a wall of pinups in a male locker room, and I suspect that a fair amount of the interest is "oggling".   I see little that is useful for any of us.  There will be young people in this forum, including young ladies, who are students and working hard to reach things in piano.  Will they wonder whether their music will even be heard?  I'm actually glad that we appear here as faceless, body-less words so as not to be subjected to these things.  I'm a student too.  I'm too old to ever have to worry about such things.

On the other side of the coin, violinist Ida Handel, a superb violinist at her time and even later, openly discussed the fact of losing engagements due to refusing to bare skin as she was asked to do.

Is there a point to this thread?  Is it serious about anything, or is it an "excuse to oggle" thread?  Am I missing something?

[ahinton]

The truth of the matter is that this thread largely resembles a wall of pinups in a male locker room, and I suspect that a fair amount of the interest is "oggling".   I see little that is useful for any of us.  There will be young people in this forum, including young ladies, who are students and working hard to reach things in piano.  Will they wonder whether their music will even be heard?  I'm actually glad that we appear here as faceless, body-less words so as not to be subjected to these things.  I'm a student too.  I'm too old to ever have to worry about such things.

On the other side of the coin, violinist Ida Handel, a superb violinist at her time and even later, openly discussed the fact of losing engagements due to refusing to bare skin as she was asked to do.

Is there a point to this thread?  Is it serious about anything, or is it an "excuse to oggle" thread?  Am I missing something?

Since you ask, yes; what you're missing is that contributors to this thread are not "oggling" (by which I presume you to mean "ogling" but, for the most part, entering into a rational discussion of public concert apparel and when it might be a distraction to the artist or audience or both from the music performance; Yuja's not the worst case here either - one has only to consider Lola Astanova who, for all her efficient Russian training, is a mediocre pianist compared to Yuja and accordingly more dependent upon showy conduct to keep her career afloat (which is not, I think, something of which Yuja could reasonably be accused).

Best,

Alistair

[dogperson]

Keystring
You seem to express concern that young female musicians may be concerned if they will ever be heard and then give an example of where a female violinist was told she needed to show some  skin.  I don’t see anything in this discussion that should not be read and considered by young musicians; expected attire/modesty trends is something that should be known and thought about.

Would Lola have a performance career without the bare skin? Doubtful. There are many musicians, with more talent, who do not have this level of exposure (pun intended). Frankly, I hope this doesn’t become an unwritten requirement for success.