Yuja Wangs dresses...

[ranjit]

Keystring
You seem to express concern that young female musicians may be concerned if they will ever be heard and then give an example of where a female violinist was told she needed to show some  skin.  I don’t see anything in this discussion that should not be read and considered by young musicians; expected attire/modesty trends is something that should be known and thought about.

Would Lola have a performance career without the bare skin? Doubtful. There are many musicians, with more talent, who do not have this level of exposure (pun intended). Frankly, I hope this doesn’t become an unwritten requirement for success.

I agree with this. I consider Yuja Wang a first rate pianist, and I'm sure she would be pretty much equally successful regardless of what she wears. But, I can't say the same for certain other pianists. And we definitely don't want skimpy apparel to become an unwritten requirement, so it's good to have a open discussion about such things.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

How is Yuja not a top flight pianist?  Do you guys know how many pianists there are?

Y’all can be like Oh she’s not as good as the recent cliburn winner or Argerich or whoever but y’all are forgetting who you’re comparing her to.

You guys don’t know how hard it is to have such a big rep and to be able to play it better than 99.99% of all pianists to ever live ever.  She’s only 32 and her rep is like infinite

[visitor]

it's part of her identity, she doesnt only do the skimp, and has and will don some long and slinky, but she has stated her self she does it on purpose because the stuffy establishment has such a knee jerk response to it

https://www.businessinsider.com/meet-yuja-wang-the-pianist-whose-skimpy-outfits-are-as-closely-watched-as-her-concertos-2012-4

it's not too different than good guy Sir Elton John, he's been rocking the crazy stage/piano attire for way longer, about the only person on the planet i think currently that can pull it off (gaga has has tried)

[ranjit]

How is Yuja not a top flight pianist?  Do you guys know how many pianists there are?

Who said she wasn't? If you're replying to something far up on the thread, I may have missed it...

[keypeg]

Since you ask, yes; what you're missing is that contributors to this thread are not "oggling" (by which I presume you to mean "ogling" but, for the most part, entering into a rational discussion of public concert apparel and when it might be a distraction to the artist or audience or both from the music performance; ...

If the discussion is sincere, then I'm relieved.  It is sometimes hard to tell. thx.

[ahinton]

If the discussion is sincere, then I'm relieved.  It is sometimes hard to tell. thx.

I suspect that some of it is but some of it isn't...

Best,

Alistair

[avguste]

To comment on your four points in turn:

1. "sex always sells" what?

2. Yuja Wang is a fine pianist indeed but not quite a top flight one

3. People are entitled to comment on the concert apparel of anyone, rightly or wrongly; Yuja's is of little interest to me (as I don't have to watch her), my only real concern being for the sheer impracticality of and discomfort (and potential long term damage to her) done by the absurd shoes that she seems quite often to wear when playing

4. Yuja has never dressed in a way that might for some conceal her pianistic abilities.

Best,

Alistair

We are in the entertainment industry and at least  for the ladies, physical attraction, body looks and such always sells. I have no issues with the way ladies performers dress up from the moment the talent and quality is there. Yuja Wang is in my opinion the only one who has the quality and is able to pull off the sexy dresses.

Other ladies (again, no names) should first work on their skills before attempting to wear skimpy outfits

[keypeg]

We are in the entertainment industry and at least  for the ladies, physical attraction, body looks and such always sells. I have no issues with the way ladies performers dress up from the moment the talent and quality is there. Yuja Wang is in my opinion the only one who has the quality and is able to pull off the sexy dresses.

Other ladies (again, no names) should first work on their skills before attempting to wear skimpy outfits

Can I assume that you are not a lady, and therefore do not have to contend with this issue?  It goes deeper than that.  If I (were I an age where this is still possible) were to spend decades at a skill and become skillful, I'd want that skill to be seen and looked at.  There is a news site that reports on tennis players, where you keep reading about what the female players are wearing - I want to read about how well they played.  All the work that they put into getting where they are, that should count.  I did not like what I found out about Ida Handel, with all those abilities, and what happened there.  If you work on a skill, achieve a skill, then it is natural to want that skill to be appreciated.  Those are the kinds of thoughts that naturally come.  Does that make sense?  Where someone answered that they are looking at this from a musical point of view, from all sides - immediately I found that reassuring and said so.  For me the issue is already closed.

[ahinton]

Yuja Wang is in my opinion the only one who has the quality and is able to pull off the sexy dresses.

I really hope that she doesn't start doing that...

Best,

Alistair

[ranjit]

I really hope that she doesn't start doing that...

Best,

Alistair

I'm dying 

[ahinton]

I'm dying 

Just from bad jokes like mine? Please don't do that!

Best,

Alistair

[cuberdrift]

it's part of her identity, she doesnt only do the skimp, and has and will don some long and slinky, but she has stated her self she does it on purpose because the stuffy establishment has such a knee jerk response to it

https://www.businessinsider.com/meet-yuja-wang-the-pianist-whose-skimpy-outfits-are-as-closely-watched-as-her-concertos-2012-4

it's not too different than good guy Sir Elton John, he's been rocking the crazy stage/piano attire for way longer, about the only person on the planet i think currently that can pull it off (gaga has has tried)

Much as I...don't think this sort of thread is "worth" putting in the name of the King of Piano Showmanship in is...I think 7 pages has been long enough to make it obligatory.

Please...none of these guys can hold a candle to the true King of Showmanship.

Really? Yuja Wang, Lang Lang, Lady Gaga? These people should just stick to their thing. Stick to classical piano. At least Liberace was honest about his intent to be an entertainer, and excelled in it.

Oh...and please do click on that video to see why!

Sorry, I mean, they tried, but only so far.

[avguste]

Guess what.
All of us as concert artists, we are in some fashion or another entertainers. Audiences come to listen to us and it is our job to entertain them for however long the concert is. 

[ranjit]

Guess what.
All of us as concert artists, we are in some fashion or another entertainers. Audiences come to listen to us and it is our job to entertain them for however long the concert is.

...by playing the piano.

[avguste]

By playing the piano, but not only. In this day and age, playing the piano well is not enough. Audiences need reasons to get out of their pjs and go listen to a live concert when they could as well listen the same music or the same artist on the internet

[ranjit]

A live concert does sound better than a recorded performance. And there's the energy of the hall, so there's that.

And your are watching Yuja Wang's dresses from home as well, aren't ya?

[brogers70]

Liszt had a pretty sexualized public performance persona, which he used to his advantage. Sauce for the goose.....

[Bob]

I was thinking of this thread the other day.  What if you took the opposite?  Someone who's really ugly performing? 


I would think they'd be judged on their performance.  It's good, it gets more exposure (no play on pervious [what a typo.  I' m leaving it.] things there).  The same thing would happen though.  At some level, the visuals would distract.  In the "ugly" case though, people would thinking, "Yes, that makes sense that she's that good because... Well, look at her.  She's not doing anything else."

[dogperson]

If a female Pianist was truly considered unattractive, would she have a large chance of making it to the concert stage?   I’m not so sure

[thalbergmad]

No she wouldnt, and that is what classical music has descended into.
An incredible pianist like Myra Hess would have no future today.

[ahinton]

No she wouldnt, and that is what classical music has descended into.
An incredible pianist like Myra Hess would have no future today.

I don't think that it's quite that bad but I do of course take your point!

Best,

Alistair

[visitor]

Katherina Truelter enrered the chat

[cuberdrift]

Liszt had a pretty sexualized public performance persona, which he used to his advantage. Sauce for the goose.....

I think it's less that he was "sexual" than the fact that audiences (and the music establishment in general) in those times weren't the un-enthusiastic bores they are today...

[dinulip]

Yuja Wangs is a very talented young pianist indeed, but also one who has neither class, nor good taste. Well, one can't always have it all!

[visitor]

one can't always have it all!

Perhaps but it's a great day wheb it's all there , and Hupman shows here you can sell the piano plus good looks while covered up in a black turtleneck and the video is dazzling Fri the videography to playing to her , shows you can be super pretty and just that happen to be , not throw it in your face , it will still have impact , just depends on what you want presentation to be focused on

[timtim]

Yuja Wangs is a very talented young pianist indeed, but also one who has neither class, nor good taste. Well, one can't always have it all!

Good pianist yes, but latter two point are fully missed.She has incredible well-made taste and is one of the most classiest living artists. She is sometimes on the border, but still.

Anastasia Hauptmann plays like 1000s of other pianists, she just like show off her body very a lot. Much more air in the body than in music. Yuja was inredible pianist long before she started to wearing "controversialy" for some. This is not case with others at all.

Not to mention Lola Astanova and dozens like her, who wear tights and get strange posture, only to get audience via making thier female bodies looks sexy. They sell themselvers in order to sell music.

Yuja plays music being herself 100%. If one cannot spot the difference, than should live that topic.

[ranjit]

Yuja Wangs is a very talented young pianist indeed, but also one who has neither class, nor good taste. Well, one can't always have it all!

Can't agree with the part about good taste. Yuja has great taste. I love her Petrushka.

[keypeg]

Katherina Truelter entered the chat

I didn't get that one, in the context of this thread. Did anyone follow?

[ranjit]

I didn't get that one, in the context of this thread. Did anyone follow?

Looks like he meant that she is well-known despite not being attractive.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Yuja Wangs is a very talented young pianist indeed, but also one who has neither class, nor good taste. Well, one can't always have it all!

Imagine having so much hate in your heart that you criticize people for being themselves on stage.  You gotta tell us what that feels like it must be a bad feeling

[thalbergmad]

Lot of snow about.

[keypeg]

Looks like he meant that she is well-known despite not being attractive.

I had no idea that she is supposed to be "not attractive", and if it says that she "entered the chat" I thought perhaps it was the pianist herself who entered the chat, possibly (and would not be displaying herself as 'not attractive'.)

[mrcreosote]

When I practice at my pathetic low level, I will sweat.  I don't recall seeing a virtuoso slinging sweat all over the place given their high level of physical effort.

I've played in churches wearing suits and it sucks balls.

A definitely benefit from Y's attire is it is not restrictive and cool running.

(Still.... where's the sweat?)

[ranjit]

When I practice at my pathetic low level, I will sweat.  I don't recall seeing a virtuoso slinging sweat all over the place given their high level of physical effort.

I've played in churches wearing suits and it sucks balls.

A definitely benefit from Y's attire is it is not restrictive and cool running.

(Still.... where's the sweat?)

I don't actually think that piano playing involves that much physical effort. I never sweat when I'm playing the piano, even when it's warm outside (but of course I don't play in a suit). I think the level of physical effort is comparable to (or maybe even less than) brisk walking. I probably don't even have proper technique since I have learned on my own, and yet I don't feel much physical effort at all playing for hours (on a DP). Even when I jump around all over the keyboard.

I get the feeling that sweat, if any, would be due to the weather (or nerves!) as opposed to simply playing the piano.

[ahinton]

I don't actually think that piano playing involves that much physical effort.

It seems to do for some pianists! It shouldn't and needn't, of course, but it does!

Best,

Alistair

[mrcreosote]

The original Greek Olympic games were done nude.

I rest my case.

[thalbergmad]

When I practice at my pathetic low level, I will sweat.  I don't recall seeing a virtuoso slinging sweat all over the place given their high level of physical effort.

Clearly you havd never seen Trifonov playing the Liszt TE's

[ahinton]

Clearly you havd never seen Trifonov playing the Liszt TE's

!!!

That said, the quantities of sweat, visible and otherwise, are principally down to the kinds of exertion that certain pianists make that are not directly germane to the performance; I don't imagine that Michelangeli or Rachmaninoff would have generated much of it!

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I doubt if Michelangeli or Rachmaninov played under half a million lumens of artificial light either, but Trifonov does seem to be a bit of a sweater.

[ahinton]

I doubt if Michelangeli or Rachmaninov played under half a million lumens of artificial light either

Fair comment!

but Trifonov does seem to be a bit of a sweater.

But what I really had in mind was the extent to which different pianists exercise their respective physiques when playing - Michelangeli and Rachmaninoff very little and various others including a certain Mr Lang very much more.

Best,

Alistair

[johnking]

No, I didn't know, it, actually; is it an ancient Chinese proverb?...

Best,

Alistair

I'd choose a more modern proverb by the lady herself: "I don't give a **** what people think (about her dresses)".