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Yuja Wangs dresses... (Read 21281 times)

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #50 on: December 05, 2017, 04:26:08 AM »
Okay and???

Other people use sex to sell their concerts.  It's not innappropriate.  Whats every opera ever about?  Sex!
I didn't notice too much of that in Die Soldaten...

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #51 on: December 05, 2017, 04:28:37 AM »
You're literally getting on her about her SHOES.

I don't wear heels, but I honestly don't think it messes with her playing... cause she still does it and it sounds fine.  Otherwise she wouldn't wear them

And It might hinder your playing but she's not you so... *shrugs*
My playing doesn't come into it; as I've said, I'm not a pianist (and I wouldn't wear such things anyway). My point was merely to question the wisdom of adding yet more difficulty to the act of playing the piano; no more, no less.

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Alistair
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #52 on: December 05, 2017, 04:40:04 AM »
My playing doesn't come into it; as I've said, I'm not a pianist (and I wouldn't wear such things anyway). My point was merely to question the wisdom of adding yet more difficulty to the act of playing the piano; no more, no less.

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Alistair

But you don't know that it's harder to play with heels.

Suits are uncomfortable why don't I just play naked?  That way I can have full range of motion
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #53 on: December 05, 2017, 04:41:06 AM »
I didn't notice too much of that in Die Soldaten...

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Alistair

You totally get the point in making you're just avoiding it.  Sex and violence has such a strong influence in all art so dressing in a skimpy outfit shouldn't be a big deal.
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Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #54 on: December 05, 2017, 05:01:28 AM »
Mr. Hinton, (w all this concern) I think you have too much starch in Your collar.  :P
4'33"

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #55 on: December 05, 2017, 05:20:04 AM »
Mr. Hinton, (w all this concern) I think you have too much starch in Your collar.  :P

Isn't she a girl?

I thought she was a dude at first too
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Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #56 on: December 05, 2017, 06:04:53 AM »
No.. don't think so.. but if ahinton could provide a pic of his/her shoes, we may get to the bottom of this lacuna..
4'33"

Offline visitor

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #57 on: December 05, 2017, 01:13:28 PM »
All this talk about her dress on stage, no one discussing what's going on in the audience

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #58 on: December 05, 2017, 01:43:01 PM »
But you don't know that it's harder to play with heels.
Not literally, I agree but, prompted by klavieronin's suggestion, I did try her book idea and found pedalling at best uncontrollable and at worst nigh on impossible (not to say painful), even without having recourse to the sostenuto pedal.

Suits are uncomfortable why don't I just play naked?  That way I can have full range of motion
I suspect that doing so might cause other difficulties for you; some suits are indeed less than comfortable for playig piano in (and even more so for playing stringed instruments in), so you opt for clothing that allows sufficient freedom of movement.

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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #59 on: December 05, 2017, 01:48:13 PM »
You totally get the point in making you're just avoiding it.  Sex and violence has such a strong influence in all art so dressing in a skimpy outfit shouldn't be a big deal.
But you only mentioned sex! In terms of how they might affect her performance, I'm not so bothered about the skimpy outfits except to the extent that there's only so much skimpier that they can get without attaning a state of deshabillé of the kind that you mentioned above. The shoes, on the other hand (sorry!) will affact it simply because they make pedalling that much more difficult; what's easier than having one's own heel just 1cm or so above floor level so below the height of the tops of the pedals? And yes, she'll doubtless regret it when her choice of footwear begins to cause her the tendon issues referred to above.

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #60 on: December 05, 2017, 01:49:08 PM »
Mr. Hinton, (w all this concern) I think you have too much starch in Your collar.  :P
...but I have none (I wouldn't keep starch in the house!)...

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #61 on: December 05, 2017, 01:51:47 PM »
Isn't she a girl?
Of course Yuja's a girl (albeit it now a 30 year old one)!

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #62 on: December 05, 2017, 01:56:37 PM »
No.. don't think so.. but if ahinton could provide a pic of his/her shoes, we may get to the bottom of this lacuna..
As mentioned, I do not, of course, have shoes of the type that Yuja wears to play in (and, as I also mentioned, I am not a pianist) but I did try the klavieronin book test and it proved the point entirely, namely that, with one's own heel elevated to a height greater than that of the pedals, it's at best uncomfortable and awkward and at worst painful and impossible properly to operate the pedals, especially if using all three (although, as I'd also mentioned, Yuja might not ever use the middle one for all that I know), half pedalling / half damping being a particular problem.

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Alistair
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #63 on: December 05, 2017, 04:23:04 PM »
Not literally, I agree but, prompted by klavieronin's suggestion, I did try her book idea and found pedalling at best uncontrollable and at worst nigh on impossible (not to say painful), even without having recourse to the sostenuto pedal.


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Alistair

Okay and that's you.  But it probably doesn't bother Yuja at all.  The entire world isn't copies of you
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #64 on: December 05, 2017, 04:30:02 PM »
But you only mentioned sex! In terms of how they might affect her performance, I'm not so bothered about the skimpy outfits except to the extent that there's only so much skimpier that they can get without attaning a state of deshabillé of the kind that you mentioned above. The shoes, on the other hand (sorry!) will affact it simply because they make pedalling that much more difficult; what's easier than having one's own heel just 1cm or so above floor level so below the height of the tops of the pedals? And yes, she'll doubtless regret it when her choice of footwear begins to cause her the tendon issues referred to above.

Best,

Aslistair

Lmao you're in no position to tell anyone what's hard for them or what kind of problems they'll have down the line.  You have trouble using pedal with an elevated heel.  Well that's your problem.

THEYRE SHOES

If the type of shoes REALLY drastically changes your ability to use the pedal then shoes aren't the problem your joints or whatever are the problem
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #65 on: December 05, 2017, 04:38:26 PM »
Okay and that's you.  But it probably doesn't bother Yuja at all.  The entire world isn't copies of you
Did I suggest that it was or that I'd want or expect it to be?!

It remains a medically recognised fact (not a personal opinion) that wearing such shoes on a regular basis (and performing in them as Yuja does donbtless emphasises its gravity) is likely to store up tendon and other problems for the future; if that "doesn't bother Yuja at all" (as you imply might be the case), so be it, I suppose, but I feel sorry for her if that is indeed so, not least because it's hard to imagine that anyone would wish such a long-term future on an artist of her calibre.

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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #66 on: December 05, 2017, 05:47:48 PM »
Lmao you're in no position to tell anyone what's hard for them or what kind of problems they'll have down the line.
I agree that I am not a medical professional with the expertise to pronounce on such matter, for I am not an osteopath, physiotherapist, chiropractor or whatever else; likewise I do not seek to "tell" anyone what is hard for them for the sake of it. I do, however, accept what such medical professionals have said and published on such matters as the genuine outcome of bona fide medical research and can see nothing wrong or misguided in that!

You have trouble using pedal with an elevated heel.  Well that's your problem.
I don't and it isn't, respectively because, as it is not something that I've ever done (apart from putting the klavieronin suggestion to the test), it is not and indeed cannot be a problem.

If the type of shoes REALLY drastically changes your ability to use the pedal then shoes aren't the problem your joints or whatever are the problem
Now, with respect, that really borders upon the absurd and, in any case, it's not "my" ability under question but "anyone's". It is inconceivable that operating piano pedals when one's heels are above their surface level could be no different from doing so when they're almost at ground level and therefore well below pedal surface level; it's also obvious that the latter presents less difficulties to the player.

Indeed, it's not so different in principle to that of wrist and/or seating height when playing and, as we know, some pianists' preferences in that regard are for higher ones than others'. It's unlikely, though, that either a Mark Hambourg position or a Glenn Gould one (to take a couple of extreme examples) is likely to shore up tendon problems for the future, provided that sufficient care be taken to avoid unnecessary build-up of tension as a direct consequence, so, in that respect, these are different to the aforementioned ones on which medical experts have pronounced and which are far more general than any that relate only to pianists.

For the record and for the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting that Yuja can't do what she does in the way that she does, for it's obvious that she can; my reservations in this are confined to the question as to why anyone would wish to make life harder for themselves by exerting that extra effort to do it that way.

There are therefore two factors here, namely the aforementioned long term medical risks and the business of trying to minimise the physical difficulties of playing the piano; in respect of the latter, the excessive physical movements before the instrument of which players such as Lang Lang are famous (or notorious) exponents contrast greatly to the very economic gestures of players such as Rachmaninoff, Michelangeli and others. Try playing music as demanding as a good deal of Sorabji, for example and the scope for the former approach clearly borders on the non-existent because every muscle movement has by definition and of necessity to go into the actually production of the sounds, so there's no space for physical histrionics. Whether or not pianists want to play such music (which is another matter altogether), that economical approach logically has to be the better one.

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Alistair
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Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #67 on: December 05, 2017, 05:57:05 PM »
Alistair, you need to release the pedal now… (sound is drowning ;D
4'33"

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #68 on: December 05, 2017, 06:20:20 PM »
lol I'm just not gonna read all that
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #69 on: December 05, 2017, 06:30:11 PM »
Alistair, you need to release the pedal now… (sound is drowning ;D
I have (although what difference depressing or releasing it would be when performing 4'33" remains unclear!)...

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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #70 on: December 05, 2017, 06:30:53 PM »
lol I'm just not gonna read all that
Your choice; it wasn't written only for your consumption anyway!

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Alistair
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Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #71 on: December 05, 2017, 08:51:37 PM »
I have (although what difference depressing or releasing it would be when performing 4'33" remains unclear!)...

Best,

Alistair

Though one could posit that the depressed pedal would to some degree have reflections of the ambient noises in the room, (though regrettably{?} not the thoughts of those listening).
Actually, your idea could add a curious richness to the experience.  Im sure John wouldn't mind. 
4'33"

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #72 on: December 05, 2017, 09:07:38 PM »
Though one could posit that the depressed pedal would to some degree have reflections of the ambient noises in the room, (though regrettably{?} not the thoughts of those listening).
Actually, your idea could add a curious richness to the experience.  Im sure John wouldn't mind.
John who?

I'd not mentioned or thought about the ambient noise question and am not convinced that this would necessarily be a relevant factor in this as discussed; are you referring to the noise made by the pedal/s being depressed (or inded released) or those ambient noises surrounding the entire experience of the piano playing?

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Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #73 on: December 05, 2017, 09:29:01 PM »
You know Alistair, for someone who claims not to care about it, you seem to be writing an awful lot about Yuja Wang's shoes. Anyway, I know I'd said I had given up but it occurred to me how absurd it was for all of us to be talking about this when none of us actually have any experience with playing piano in heels. That is, with the exception of outin who said it can make playing easier. Why you are so unwilling to accept her first hand testimony is beyond me but if that isn't enough for you here are some more I dug up from another forum;

"My teacher says that a 2 inch heel helps her pedaling."

"I find pedaling with heels helps as it gives a better pivot to the ankle and I can control the up/down action more easily."

"My teacher's piano is on casters on a wooden floor, so it's much easier to play in heels."

"Don't usually wear shoes in the house but if am playing the church piano I can use the pedal with any sort of heel."

"I've played in other heels, including quite high stilettos with no problems."

"Sometimes a small heel is useful to help with pedalling and create a proper hinge effect."

"Always heels for performing too as they help me feel more confident."


Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #74 on: December 05, 2017, 10:57:18 PM »
Alistair,When you said, "difference depressing or releasing it would be when performing 4'33" remains unclear!".. i thought you must know about JOHN Cage's 4'33'' -- hence my ambient noise comment…
Geez, perhaps a cup of (caffeinated ) tea is in order, here.
4'33"

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #75 on: December 05, 2017, 11:05:54 PM »
Alistair,When you said, "difference depressing or releasing it would be when performing 4'33" remains unclear!".. i thought you must know about JOHN Cage's 4'33'' -- hence my ambient noise comment…
Geez, perhaps a cup of (caffeinated ) tea is in order, here.
Of course I know about it! - hence my mention thereof.

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Alistair
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Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #76 on: December 05, 2017, 11:08:58 PM »
John who?


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Alistair

who's on first?  (old joke)
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #77 on: December 05, 2017, 11:10:10 PM »
You know Alistair, for someone who claims not to care about it, you seem to be writing an awful lot about Yuja Wang's shoes. Anyway, I know I'd said I had given up but it occurred to me how absurd it was for all of us to be talking about this when none of us actually have any experience with playing piano in heels. That is, with the exception of outin who said it can make playing easier. Why you are so unwilling to accept her first hand testimony is beyond me but if that isn't enough for you here are some more I dug up from another forum;

"My teacher says that a 2 inch heel helps her pedaling."

"I find pedaling with heels helps as it gives a better pivot to the ankle and I can control the up/down action more easily."

"My teacher's piano is on casters on a wooden floor, so it's much easier to play in heels."

"Don't usually wear shoes in the house but if am playing the church piano I can use the pedal with any sort of heel."

"I've played in other heels, including quite high stilettos with no problems."

"Sometimes a small heel is useful to help with pedalling and create a proper hinge effect."

"Always heels for performing too as they help me feel more confident."
Thank you for posting these claims, which are interesting. All that I find odd about them is the notion that having one's own heel above the pedal surface level could possibly make matters easier when the pressure/energy required to depress (and even also release) pedals must be greater than it would be when one's heel is below the pedal surface level; can you therefore explain, for someone who has observed this, what's supposedly wrong about it? Thanks in advance.

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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #78 on: December 05, 2017, 11:11:07 PM »
who's on first?  (old joke)
No idea (neither and old nor a new joke)...

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Alistair
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Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #79 on: December 05, 2017, 11:20:15 PM »
Talking with you is like this:

"Who's on first?":

Starting at 1:27 … (listen as long as you can stand..

4'33"

Offline visitor

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #80 on: December 06, 2017, 12:12:31 AM »
when i try to follow the progress of this thread

Offline mjames

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #81 on: December 06, 2017, 01:02:13 AM »
that's like 5th grade math tho

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #82 on: December 06, 2017, 01:02:40 AM »
…All that I find odd about them is the notion that having one's own heel above the pedal surface level could possibly make matters easier when the pressure/energy required to depress (and even also release) pedals must be greater than it would be when one's heel is below the pedal surface level; can you therefore explain, for someone who has observed this, what's supposedly wrong about it?

It doesn't require more pressure or energy. The pedals don't know if you're wearing heels or not. I don't know why the women I quoted above find it easier but don't feel the need to question their claim.

I can tell you, however, why it is less tiring for me when my heel is flush with the pedal. If I relax my foot onto the pedal it causes a half pedal. So in order to not half pedal I have to lift my foot up slightly. With my heel resting on a book, so that my foot lies parallel to the ground, I can relax entirely without half pedaling.

Offline outin

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #83 on: December 06, 2017, 01:40:59 AM »
I think it's just mechanics. When the foot is longer, less movement is needed at the ankle to swing the pedal all the way up and down. With a short foot the movement must be larger in proportion and the angle of the foot when up is more extreme. From such an extreme angle it takes more effort to start the downward movement. When you wear heels you don't need to the twist your ankle to such an extreme position when the pedal is up and the downward movement is easier.

Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #84 on: December 06, 2017, 01:48:20 AM »
i wonder how glass slippers would fare :P
4'33"

Offline visitor

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #85 on: December 06, 2017, 02:28:30 AM »
that's like 5th grade math tho
yes but it's highly  advanced level meme-ness, since the level of dank is inversely proportional to the square of its maths  grade :)

Offline mjames

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #86 on: December 06, 2017, 03:52:57 AM »
im just surprised people here are talking about the mechanics of high heels..

Offline keypeg

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #87 on: December 06, 2017, 04:09:57 AM »
im just surprised people here are talking about the mechanics of high heels..
Because it's more interesting than the clothing a musician wears, and it at least touches upon elements of piano playing.

Offline mjames

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #88 on: December 06, 2017, 04:12:25 AM »
Because it's more interesting than the clothing a musician wears, and it at least touches upon elements of piano playing.


interesting?

lol oh god

you remind me of the kids that actually enjoy an intro to mechanics course

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #89 on: December 06, 2017, 05:06:08 AM »
If heels affect the mechanics of your piano playing you're just outta shape period.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #90 on: December 06, 2017, 06:58:45 AM »
If heels affect the mechanics of your piano playing you're just outta shape period.
To whose piano playing do you refer here? Everyone's? If so, it wouldn't be just heels, surely? There could be plenty of other such issues; it's just that these are the ones being referred to here. Anyway, if Yuja wants to shore up problems for herself in later life, that's her choice, I guess, but ask yourself why that's likely to be the case (and, when so doing, take note of what the medics say in preference to anything that I've written).

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Alistair
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Offline outin

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #91 on: December 06, 2017, 07:00:15 AM »
If heels affect the mechanics of your piano playing you're just outta shape period.

Let me give the Chinese treatment to your feet and then lets see...

Offline marik1

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #92 on: December 06, 2017, 08:34:18 AM »

There are therefore two factors here, namely the aforementioned long term medical risks and the business of trying to minimise the physical difficulties of playing the piano; in respect of the latter, the excessive physical movements before the instrument of which players such as Lang Lang are famous (or notorious) exponents contrast greatly to the very economic gestures of players such as Rachmaninoff, Michelangeli and others.

Alistair,

While I generally agree with you on most of the matters in this thread and wisdom you provide here (as opposed to some younger folks with more maximalistic approach, which of course, is excusable due to their age and as such natural desire to get into arguing on otherwise quite obvious things) I believe, there should be some clarification on Lang Lang thing. While I should say he is not one of my favorite pianists ever and moreover, I would not even consider spending any of my time listening to any of his so called "interpretations", I still will gladly admit he is incredibly talented person and quite a phenomenal pianist.

What I wanted to point out is while on the surface it might appear he has some "excessive physical movements before the instrument" as you say, in reality that is more a superficial thing, as his pianistic approach is very efficient. If you closely watch his sound production and finger work you will find it extremely refined and economical, and free of ANY "excessive movements" whatsoever. Coupled with obvious freedom and completely relaxed approach to the keyboard, I would not expect him having any medical risks, or complications, let alone having any physical difficulties of playing piano, you mentioned, for years to come.

Just a little clarification, but probably most of the folks here did not pay attention, anyway...

As far as Yuja stage outfit concerned I must admit I am of old school, meaning, when I listen for example to a magnificent Adagio from Hammerklavier in a concert hall setup I'd rather concentrate on music. That is, because of some natural preferences, I am easily attracted to woman's beauty. As such, when I know there are such things on stage as a naked back, or (God forbid) beautiful female naked legs my eyes will be inevitably attracted to those I admit, beautiful things. Of course, I could force myself to close my eyes, again, to concentrate on music, but still against of my will they will try to sneak open to pick the "stage reality". As a result my perception and experience of live performance of such profound music will be greatly distracted and compromised--that would be just not what I paid my money for. If I wanted to see great naked legs (not to say more) that would be completely different setup, but that's already completely different story... That's why I prefer more conservative dress code.

After all, that would be hard to imagine such greatest female artists like for example Dame Myra Hess, Maria Yudina, Annie Fisher, Maria Grinberg, Ekaterina Novitskaya, Martha Argerich, Elizabeth Leonskaya, Maria Joao Pires, etc. getting on stage with their undies flashing and boobs jumping out, leaving not much for imagination... But that might be me...

Best, M

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #93 on: December 06, 2017, 05:14:48 PM »

As far as Yuja stage outfit concerned I must admit I am of old school, meaning, when I listen for example to a magnificent Adagio from Hammerklavier in a concert hall setup I'd rather concentrate on music. That is, because of some natural preferences, I am easily attracted to woman's beauty. As such, when I know there are such things on stage as a naked back, or (God forbid) beautiful female naked legs my eyes will be inevitably attracted to those I admit, beautiful things. Of course, I could force myself to close my eyes, again, to concentrate on music, but still against of my will they will try to sneak open to pick the "stage reality". As a result my perception and experience of live performance of such profound music will be greatly distracted and compromised--that would be just not what I paid my money for. If I wanted to see great naked legs (not to say more) that would be completely different setup, but that's already completely different story... That's why I prefer more conservative dress code.

After all, that would be hard to imagine such greatest female artists like for example Dame Myra Hess, Maria Yudina, Annie Fisher, Maria Grinberg, Ekaterina Novitskaya, Martha Argerich, Elizabeth Leonskaya, Maria Joao Pires, etc. getting on stage with their undies flashing and boobs jumping out, leaving not much for imagination... But that might be me...

Best, M

I respect your opinion, because you are one of the few people I have seen that doesn't like how she wears but doesn't take it out on her playing. Btw I think you have a good point, but I can't fully agree with you. I mean just listen to her recording of Prok 2 with Dutoit on youtube. She wears a more conservative dress there and it still sounds as good as when she plays with short dresses. I don't think she needs her body to make people listen to her. On the other hand in some cases I do think that looks can change your listening experience, but that is only the case when the pianists actually have to wear those dresses to get publicity.

"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline keypeg

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #94 on: December 06, 2017, 06:53:37 PM »
I watched a documentary on the great Ida Haendel.  One of the reasons that she was not  able to book as many performances as she would have liked is because when she was younger (I doubt when she was a senior) she was pressured to dress more skimpily and she refused to do so.  Those are realities.  Classical music is high art requiring great skill with many years of study, but it is still entertainment, with people renting out concert halls, making money out of it, creating and selling recordings and so on.  They are business people with their ideas.  If you know "how the world works", maybe some people go with the flow and exploit such trends, rather than becoming the obscure excellent musician that nobody ever gets to hear.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #95 on: December 07, 2017, 10:25:49 AM »
I respect your opinion, because you are one of the few people I have seen that doesn't like how she wears but doesn't take it out on her playing. Btw I think you have a good point, but I can't fully agree with you. I mean just listen to her recording of Prok 2 with Dutoit on youtube. She wears a more conservative dress there and it still sounds as good as when she plays with short dresses. I don't think she needs her body to make people listen to her. On the other hand in some cases I do think that looks can change your listening experience, but that is only the case when the pianists actually have to wear those dresses to get publicity.
You say that you "can't fully agree" with me but I see nothing in what you write here that suggests any such disagreement! In fact, I'm with you on all of this. Her dress choices are hers alone. Whether any of her decisions on that front are with a view to getting publicity and/or drawing attention to something other than the music and her playing of it I cannot say with certainty; what I can say with certainty, however, is that she has no need to draw attention to anything else or seek to court publicity because she is a fine artist.

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #96 on: December 07, 2017, 10:27:26 AM »
I watched a documentary on the great Ida Haendel.  One of the reasons that she was not  able to book as many performances as she would have liked is because when she was younger (I doubt when she was a senior) she was pressured to dress more skimpily and she refused to do so.  Those are realities.  Classical music is high art requiring great skill with many years of study, but it is still entertainment, with people renting out concert halls, making money out of it, creating and selling recordings and so on.  They are business people with their ideas.  If you know "how the world works", maybe some people go with the flow and exploit such trends, rather than becoming the obscure excellent musician that nobody ever gets to hear.
You could well be right about this; that said, she's had the most remarkable career and has been an enduring feature of programmes for many decades.

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Alistair
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Offline marik1

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #97 on: December 07, 2017, 10:29:36 AM »
just listen to her recording of Prok 2 with Dutoit on youtube. She wears a more conservative dress there and it still sounds as good as when she plays with short dresses. I don't think she needs her body to make people listen to her. On the other hand in some cases I do think that looks can change your listening experience, but that is only the case when the pianists actually have to wear those dresses to get publicity.

I believe, her appearance is a marketing strategy of her managers and frankly, IMHO, beneath of her. She doesn't need it to prove she plays piano well enough. On the other hand, it is an indication of her approach and general cultural level, which one can hear in her music making. Again, just try to imagine Rosalyn Turek, Helen Grimaud, or Maria Joao Pires getting on stage in mini...

As far as Prokofiev 2--yes, she is fine, but in a sense very limited... not nearly on the same level as titanic performances of say, Yakov Zak, Bolet, or Horazio Guttierez...  

Best, M

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #98 on: December 07, 2017, 10:38:42 AM »
While I generally agree with you on most of the matters in this thread and wisdom you provide here (as opposed to some younger folks with more maximalistic approach, which of course, is excusable due to their age and as such natural desire to get into arguing on otherwise quite obvious things) I believe, there should be some clarification on Lang Lang thing. While I should say he is not one of my favorite pianists ever and moreover, I would not even consider spending any of my time listening to any of his so called "interpretations", I still will gladly admit he is incredibly talented person and quite a phenomenal pianist.

What I wanted to point out is while on the surface it might appear he has some "excessive physical movements before the instrument" as you say, in reality that is more a superficial thing, as his pianistic approach is very efficient. If you closely watch his sound production and finger work you will find it extremely refined and economical, and free of ANY "excessive movements" whatsoever. Coupled with obvious freedom and completely relaxed approach to the keyboard, I would not expect him having any medical risks, or complications, let alone having any physical difficulties of playing piano, you mentioned, for years to come.
Well, we must agree to disagree in part on that. Yes, the actual mechanics of what he does to produce the sound are indeed economical, that very fact makes the remaining physical histronics all the more absurd and, in any case, they're counter-productive in technical terms. He's talented, for sure but I can think of quite a few other pianists with at least his facility and in some cases considerably more - Yuja, for one! Where he does unquestionably succeed is as a kind of ambassador for Western piano music and playing in his home country and in that he's been quite exceptional.

As far as Yuja stage outfit concerned I must admit I am of old school, meaning, when I listen for example to a magnificent Adagio from Hammerklavier in a concert hall setup I'd rather concentrate on music. That is, because of some natural preferences, I am easily attracted to woman's beauty. As such, when I know there are such things on stage as a naked back, or (God forbid) beautiful female naked legs my eyes will be inevitably attracted to those I admit, beautiful things. Of course, I could force myself to close my eyes, again, to concentrate on music, but still against of my will they will try to sneak open to pick the "stage reality". As a result my perception and experience of live performance of such profound music will be greatly distracted and compromised--that would be just not what I paid my money for. If I wanted to see great naked legs (not to say more) that would be completely different setup, but that's already completely different story... That's why I prefer more conservative dress code.
All good points and well argued.

After all, that would be hard to imagine such greatest female artists like for example Dame Myra Hess, Maria Yudina, Annie Fisher, Maria Grinberg, Ekaterina Novitskaya, Martha Argerich, Elizabeth Leonskaya, Maria Joao Pires, etc. getting on stage with their undies flashing and boobs jumping out, leaving not much for imagination... But that might be me...
No, it's not you; it's them! If artists of their calibre are prepared to do what they and many others like them do and have done in avoiding the risk of distraction from the music and the playing of it by means of their concert dress, so be it.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline marik1

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Re: Yuja Wang's dresses...
«Reply #99 on: December 07, 2017, 10:38:56 AM »
You say that you "can't fully agree" with me but I see nothing in what you write here that suggests any such disagreement! In fact, I'm with you on all of this. Her dress choices are hers alone. Whether any of her decisions on that front are with a view to getting publicity and/or drawing attention to something other than the music and her playing of it I cannot say with certainty; what I can say with certainty, however, is that she has no need to draw attention to anything else or seek to court publicity because she is a fine artist.

Best,

Alistair

Alistair,

In fact, if you look more carefully, that was response to MY message, so I would think Pianoville was rather agreeing with me, rather than you. That's being said, it doesn't necessarily mean Pianoville disagrees with you, it is just that my idea was a bit different...

Best, M