How do jazz pianists practice?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I've been trying to teach myself jazz and jazz improvisation but I've been having a hard time.

So how the hell do they even practice?  Seriously I've NEVER seen a jazz pianist practice or talk about practicing they're just good.

I feel like jazz pianists just ARE good.  Like they just materialize into existence already knowing how to improvise the sh*t out of giant steps and stuff like that.  Like a pre-made character in an MMORPG or something.

I bet they don't even exist outside of performance.  they just materialize right before they walk on stage or a bar or an interview and after they turn the corner when nobody is looking they just vanish out of existence.

Jazz pianists are the most elusive creatures ever man

[mjames]

@Chopzloverz01 will give you a more detailed reply

How I started:

1. Listening to a lot of jazz piano and picking a style and player you enjoy the most. Try to emulate him/her and your "voice" will naturally develop.

2.Start with the simple basics, like just modifying a tune over simple chord progressions and rhythm. C7, F7, and G7 or with 10th chords are good examples of simple progressions. You can use jazz scales to help you out too. Don't start out with complicated stuff like walking bass lines and reharmonizations. lol

3. Listen to jazz standards, the original versions, and listen to how different artists spice them up.

Good tutorials:

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Yeah that's the thing I need jazz scales and walking bass lines

Like I wanna be able to just sit down and play whatever I want

I already know my theory pretty well and reharmonizafions

[Bob]

From what I saw...

Chord routines.  They drill that in daily.   And patterns over those chords.  Along with improvisation not being purely spontaneous.  The patterns and overall plan might be well-known in advance.  Just not the details are planned out. 

Improv of some sort on their own.  By themselves.  With recordings or software.

Studying recordings, including breaking down and copying someone's improv as precisely as possible.  I did that for a couple lines of a simple solo as an exercise in a class once.  It's interesting how much detail you start pulling out and how plain notated music looks compared to what you become aware of.

Regular practice in a small group.

Singing.  Knowing piano, although that's a given in this case.

Studying theory but that makes sense  if someone's in school.

Practicing 12 hours a day?  Haha.

[Bob]

Maybe Derek (was it Derek?) will chime in.

[themeandvariation]

mjames; you mention -
 "C7, F7, and G7 or with 10th chords are good examples of simple progressions"

 10ths chords is not how to describe it.. (it being a major third.) - usually the odd numbers are used 7,9, 11, 13… !  10ths would be redundant, Unless it is a Flatted 10th, (which is a different note) or more often, a raised 9...

[chopinlover01]

We're actually a figment of your imagination, we do in fact disappear after performance.

I gotta talk to my manager soon, make him make me sound more like Keith Jarrett for my next gig..


In all seriousness, I'm headed off to a gig right now, but I'll have a serious reply in a minute

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Also could someone help me find the chords to this song?

Okay so I know everything revolves around a c minor 9 chord but I'm having trouble le hearing the rest

[chopinlover01]

I've been trying to teach myself jazz and jazz improvisation but I've been having a hard time.

So how the hell do they even practice?  Seriously I've NEVER seen a jazz pianist practice or talk about practicing they're just good.

I feel like jazz pianists just ARE good.  Like they just materialize into existence already knowing how to improvise the sh*t out of giant steps and stuff like that.  Like a pre-made character in an MMORPG or something.

Well, we tend to have to be pretty good to get gigs, b/c rhythm section players have to know their sh*t.

Overall, though, it's a lot less straightforward than classical. I'm practicing all the time, but a good chunk (just under 50%) is listening. As a rhythm section player, I'm mostly learning tunes, chord changes, song form, all that. Basically, how long is the song, what are the chords. After that, applying it into context is when you talk about things like chord voicings; leaving out the root for the bass player, deciding how to arrange the voicing with two hands, then making this default for you in all twelve keys. Knowing how to flow with a soloist is essential too.

Learning how to solo is a LONG process. Learning how to approach it and how to start doing it can be hard in itself; it's awkward, seems cheesy at first, and never feels right. Being comfortable soloing can take thousands of choruses for some.

The big part of learning how to solo is vocabulary; melodic lines (not patterns, patterns are something else!) created spontaneously are hard. The best way to get better at that part of your playing, IMO, is transcription, like Bob alluded to. The key is to transcribe it yourself; learning off of transcriptions on the internet, while not without merit, isn't nearly as educational as transcribing it yourself

[anamnesis]

The key is to transcribe it yourself; learning off of transcriptions on the internet, while not without merit, isn't nearly as educational as transcribing it yourself

I'm not sure that's entirely true. 

I think it's much more probable that it's easier to trick one's self into thinking that one is truly learning from a written transcription such that one doesn't actually put in all the work necessary to wring off as much as possible from it. 

[visitor]

Im blown away by this little kid,
He hasn't had many years if practice so he must understand some concept or basic set of.tools and couple when with uncommon creativity

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

[chopinlover01]

I'm not sure that's entirely true. 

I think it's much more probable that it's easier to trick one's self into thinking that one is truly learning from a written transcription such that one doesn't actually put in all the work necessary to wring off as much as possible from it. 

With respect, I speak from lots of experience doing both and watching others do both.
Your reasoning may be solid; I'm just giving what I've seen lots of others do (and done myself), and how much success (or lack thereof) it has yielded.

[anamnesis]

With respect, I speak from lots of experience doing both and watching others do both.
Your reasoning may be solid; I'm just giving what I've seen lots of others do (and done myself), and how much success (or lack thereof) it has yielded.

It might be more productive to explain what it is that you mean by learning off a written transcription. 

The ideal goal is that both acts should seem, at their heart, fundamentally the same such that we see with our ears and hear with our eyes. Neither can be accomplished without actively pursuing the other, especially if one direction is much more heavily trained than the other.     

[chopinlover01]

Learning off a written transcription is typically finding someone else's transcription of a solo, then learning by reading the sheet music, along with the recording.

Unfortunately, this excludes the requirement of hearing everything exactly; you can hear the shape of the line, but you often don't internalize it the same way that you have to in order to transcribe it.

I'm also fascinated - and this isn't to call you out, by any means - by the leagues of classical players who seem to never have improvised meaningfully in their life or sat in with a rhythm section, who yet seem to have all this "knowledge" about jazz and how to play it. I'm not trying to be rude with you specifically, it's just a common strain of classical musician that I can't stand.

[anamnesis]

Learning off a written transcription is typically finding someone else's transcription of a solo, then learning by reading the sheet music, along with the recording.

Unfortunately, this excludes the requirement of hearing everything exactly; you can hear the shape of the line, but you often don't internalize it the same way that you have to in order to transcribe it.

From my perspective, I wouldn't consider just reading off a sheet along with a recording actually learning from it in a meaningful sense. 

At a minimum, one need's to work toward being able to hear every note vividly in one's mind without even hearing the recording, improvising/composing variations at different structural layers, and then actively being to contrast and make explicit comparisons between your own mental generation of those sounds with the recording.

I'm also fascinated - and this isn't to call you out, by any means - by the leagues of classical players who seem to never have improvised meaningfully in their life or sat in with a rhythm section, who yet seem to have all this "knowledge" about jazz and how to play it. I'm not trying to be rude with you specifically, it's just a common strain of classical musician that I can't stand.

Discussion involving interaction with music is of more interest to me than any sense of posturing over domains.

This particular topic is of interest to me independent of the characteristics of either genre because I find that most underestimate what it means to work off a written score such that one takes part of the whole creative process rather than just regurgitate it.   

[rachmaninoff_forever]

So you mean actually getting a piece of paper and writing it down?

Do I have to write it down or is just playing around with it on the piano and just having it in my head good enough?

[Bob]

I did an exercise that was writing it out and imitating as precisely as possible by playing it.  Simple improv as the example.  I ended up making a really detailed notation of it, esp. compared to a purchased version I found later.  I'm not sure I ever perfectly copied it but I knew what I was aiming at.

Oh, yeah... Sing it too.  As perfectly matched as possible.  Haha.

[chopinlover01]

From my perspective, I wouldn't consider just reading off a sheet along with a recording actually learning from it in a meaningful sense. 

At a minimum, one need's to work toward being able to hear every note vividly in one's mind without even hearing the recording, improvising/composing variations at different structural layers, and then actively being to contrast and make explicit comparisons between your own mental generation of those sounds with the recording.

Discussion involving interaction with music is of more interest to me than any sense of posturing over domains.

This particular topic is of interest to me independent of the characteristics of either genre because I find that most underestimate what it means to work off a written score such that one takes part of the whole creative process rather than just regurgitate it.   

It's not posturing over domains, it's people with no experience in anything but the theoretical acting like they've got the same knowledge as the people who do field experiments for a living.

You're right, in any case.

So you mean actually getting a piece of paper and writing it down?

Do I have to write it down or is just playing around with it on the piano and just having it in my head good enough?

Yes. You don't need to write it down necessarily, but it's another layer of mental reinforcement (that said, there's definitely a time and place for strictly hearing and repeating back).