how long do you practise?

[sharonlovespiano]

How long do you practise a day?
What's normal for a(n) (upcoming) pianist?

[jlh]

It depends on what you're studying, what you hope to accomplish, and how serious you are.

For me, I have a hard time practicing everything if I don't devote 3-5 hours a day.

If you're a beginner, probably more than 30 minutes a day would be counterproductive in some regards.

If you're starting to work on more advanced literature and are serious, practicing less than 2 hours would probably not be enough.

[bernhard]

This is a question that keeps being recycled.

Yes, as jlh said, ultimately it depends.

Let us make an analogy.

How much time should we spend cleaning?

Well, first we must establish: Cleaning what?

1.   Cleaning your teeth: about 2 – 3 minutes on waking up, before going to bed and after every meal.
2.   Cleaning the dishes: 5 minutes – one hour everyday, after every meal, depending on the number and state of the dishes.
3.   Cleaning the bathroom: 30 minutes – 2 hours once or twice a week, again depending on the number of persons in the house and how civilised they are.
4.   Cleaning oneself: the variation here can be enormous. Culturally some people will only bath once a week in a bathtub (very inefficient and not good results), so 2 hours weekly at the bathtub. Other cultures prefer showering everyday, sometimes more than once a day (climate may play a big role here too).

You get the idea.

Then you have the questions of standards. How clean do you want a dish to be? And what is your definition of dirt anyway? You can easily spend a whole day scrubbing one single dish. We say of people who behave like that that they have obssessive compulsive behaviour.

Sometimes, with a very dirty dish from the oven it is best not to clean it at all, but to leave it soaking in detergent overnight. So what would take hours of scrubbing can take a few minutes if you leave it alone and let the soaking do the work for you.

In certain cultures, the family eats regularly in the kitchen, reserving the dining room for especial occasions and for visitors – most of the time it is kept closed. This reduces the need to clean and tidy it – which can be done once a week or once a month.

So how much time should one spend cleaning? Well, are you a professional cleaner? Then you are going to be going from house to house and you will be cleaning 8 – 10 hours a day. But if you are not, you will not need to do it for that long. In both cases you want to be as efficient about it as you can possibly be, so that you achieve your standards of cleanliness with the least effort and in the least amount of time. There are many time saving devices in the cleaning world. For instance, If you are going to clean the kitchen big way, start the night before by switching off the refrigerator and freezer (make sure they are empty). Next day, start by removing all dishes to a large bowl and soak them (assuming no dish washer). Leave them soaking, and while this is going on apply cleaning foam to sink and surfaces, to the refrigerator and freezer. Leave it to work on its own, and do the same to the cooker/oven. Now you are back to the dishes, which should be a breeze to sponge, rinse and leave to dry (don’t bother drying them – just put them on the rack, and by the time you finish the kitchen they will be dry and ready for storage) – the ones that are not, soak them for longer. Meanwhile, start rinsing and cleaning the counters and sink – which should again be easier to do after the cleaning foam did its job. Do not waste time fighting with recalcitrant spots: leave them with another application of cleaning foam. Keep doing that. By the time you get to the cooker it will be a breeze to clean it. If you do this right it should take you 20 –30 minutes to clean the whole kitchen, instead of a whole day.

So what does this have to do with piano practice? Exactly the same principles apply. In fact, efficiency in piano practice will improve if you decide to be efficient in every single area of your life. You will find shortcuts that you can turn into piano practice tricks in the most unlikely areas.

So, how long should one practise? First question: Practise what?

1.   Scales and arpeggios: 2 or 3 minutes everyday on waking up, before going to bed and after every meal.

2.   Pieces: If you are learning a piece, start by letting it soak for a while by listening to CDs and working on the score. Once you actually start at the piano divide the job (dishes – sink – refrigerator) and do no more than 15 – 20 minutes on each chore once a day and no more. But, just like cleaning dishes, you must do it everyday: it is a never ending job.

3.   Pieces: if already mastered, just like the locked dining room, you will not need to dust it more than once a week  - you may get away with once a month. But you must open it from time to time to let some air in. And of course when visitors come (yes, that is performance time) you will need to a thorough clean-up again: Your performance will most likely be unsatisfactory for you – even if the audience love it – so, on the days and couple of weeks just after the performance is the best time to concentrate your practice and work again on that already mastered piece and remaster it according to your observations at the performance.

4.   Technical exercises. Don’t waste anytime with that. Before tackling the dishes in the sink do you spend one hour of sponge training? Of course not. You just clean the dishes and all the sponge skill will come from that. Of course you must not clean the dishes in any way you want , but use the opportunity to hone your sponge skills. Likewise, getting technique from pieces is not simply playing them, but using the piece to hone and develop your technical skills.

You get the idea. How can you make all this even more efficient? Teach! You can do all your scale practice during your lessons by simply demonstrating it to student after student. Organise the scale rota of the student to benefit your practice.

And as I said, what is your situation?  If you are professional performer you will necessarily be spending far more time at the piano than someone who is not, just like a profession cleaner will be doing several more times cleaning per day than someone who just wants to clean his/her own house. But while the homeowner will just derive the satisfaction of clean house for his/her efforts, the professional cleaner will be paid for it as well. However if you hate cleaning and the life style changes it demands, you should perhaps not consider a career in cleaning. Which is not to say that you should not use the professional tricks of the trade in your own house cleaning. Likewise, if you cannot stomach being on stage, constant travelling (and jet-lag); hotels and hotel food; dressing in tails; etc. then you should re-evaluate your desire to be a professional performer. Which is not to say that you should not use the professional approach and tricks of the trade on your own personal playing.

I am sure you can take this analogy to a farther distance than I did here.

Also have a look at this thread, where there are several links that deal with this issue.

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5767.msg56133.html#msg56133

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[xvimbi]

2.   Pieces: If you are learning a piece, start by letting it soak for a while by listening to CDs and working on the score. Once you actually start at the piano divide the job (dishes – sink – refrigerator) and do no more than 15 – 20 minutes on each chore once a day and no more. But, just like cleaning dishes, you must do it everyday: it is a never ending job.

Darn, I don't do my dishes every day. No wonder I am making slow progress with my pieces. Also, most of my dishes are done with the dishwasher. Hmmm. I should get a player piano, I think.

[Brian Healey]

I usually use paper plates and plastic forks. Does that mean my piano playing is disposable?

 


Peace,
Bri

[Bouter Boogie]

How long do you practise a day?
What's normal for a(n) (upcoming) pianist?

I actually started this topic a long time ago I think this is a very overdone topic, but anyway.. It's 'practice' instead of 'practise'

[sharonlovespiano]

I actually started this topic a long time ago I think this is a very overdone topic, but anyway.. It's 'practice' instead of 'practise'

Jesus, I'm so stupid. Damn English.

[betricia]

I am going to get on someone's nerves for saying this but I must.  Must I?  Yes I must.  "Practice" with a c is a noun and "Practise" with an s is a verb.  Soooo  "I practise scales" is correct but so also is practice when used in the phrase " I am engaged in practice".   
Patricia
not that it really matters unless you don't of course!

[Bouter Boogie]

Jesus, I'm so stupid. *** English.

*No comment *

[super5james]

When im not in school i do 12 hours day and now that schools in session i can get about 5-6 hours a day but on saturdays ill do 12.

[Bouter Boogie]

Jesus, I'm so stupid. *** English.

Btw, no need to involve Jesus in this thread.. That's not very polite for all the religious people at this forum

[jeremyjchilds]

When im not in school i do 12 hours day and now that schools in session i can get about 5-6 hours a day but on saturdays ill do 12.

I just can't help but find that hard to believe...

[llamaman]

12 hours. *doesn't stop laughing for twenty minutes* As if.

[ryan2189]

I agree. Even 5 to 6 hours on a school day is absurd. Do you even do your homework, more importantly do you eat or sleep? 

[leahcim]

I just can't help but find that hard to believe...

Probably means playing not practice.

[celticqt]

Ahh, Bernhard . . . . leave it to you to create applicable, instructive analogies from such mundane tasks as washing dishes!   

[bernhard]

Ahh, Bernhard . . . . leave it to you to create applicable, instructive analogies from such mundane tasks as washing dishes!   

The problem with washing dishes is that you wahs them, and then you have to do it all over again three weeks later...

[pianistimo]

good to see a guy doing dishes!  i like the analogies.  and, the time necessary to accomplish various tasks.  i liked the soaking idea with the cd's, too.  you are very creative, bernhard.  in any case, it is all about enjoying your work.  i mean, if you like sparkling dishes you are obviously going for excellence.  but, as in doing dishes, you can zone out while getting the sparkle.  the light in your eyes may be gone.  same with music.  you can't be passionate about scales, sounds, perfection, unless there is some goal in all of it.  i think it is like painters - you want the overall effect (all the sparkling dishes - and kitchen clean) of mastery.  therefore, the hours spent practicing should be enjoyable hours because you are working toward the end result of all the practice.   ok.  how much practice. 2-3 hours on some days, none on others, and 6-7 on really great days.  am learning that it's a very physical thing, and you need to bring food.  otherwise, you just drain yourself.  starving/gorging.

[jim_24601]

*No comment *

*ahem* points upthread Patricia (and the thread title) is correct, and you are wrong. In "how long do you practise", 'practise' is the verb form and quite properly spelt with an 's'. "How much practice do you do", on the other hand, has the 'c' in 'practice' because it is a noun. So don't get too cocky

[leahcim]

The problem with washing dishes is that you wahs them, and then you have to do it all over again three weeks later...

Yeah, the cardboard goes all soggy after the 3rd wash as well so you have to throw them away.

[phil13]

I usually practic(s)e 2 hours a day minimum, 4 and a half hours a day maximum. It's just as bad to overpractic(s)e as it is to underpractic(s)e.

Phil

[026497]

12 hours. *doesn't stop laughing for twenty minutes* As if.

Are you kidding? 12 hours! I don't think you have enough time to sleep and ...

[BoliverAllmon]

It all depends on if you are getting the desires you want. It reminds me of a story my teacher told me about when he was in school. He thought he was a good trumpeter and took pride in his 3hrs. of practice a day. One day he was practicing when another student popped his head into the practice room. The student asked how much do you practice a day? Proudfully my teacher replied 3 hrs.! after a bit of a pause the other student said, "you might want to try 5" and walked out of the practice room. My teacher took that advice to heart practiced more and with in a year was playing with the Austin Symphony Orchestra and the Houston Symphony Orchestra a couple of years later.

boliver

[steve jones]

I try to practice for a couple of hours each day. I like to do an hour in the morning, then another in the evening. This is about as much as I can handle right now. I sometimes spend longer, but I can always feel the fatigue the next day. I guess alot of that comes down to the effiency of your technique.

[super5james]

Yeah its true i do 6 hours of practice on a school day.I get about 6 hours of sleep form 10 pm to 5 am.Then i eat,get,ready,Then play for 1 hour,then go to school, then ill play
for hours.then eat then go to bed.I do all my home work at school like in gym or lunch.
I do practice that long.

[steve jones]

James,

How long have you been practicing under this regime? Have you ever had any problems with fatigue?

[joachimf]

I don't think how long you practise in hours really matters. What matters is how efficient you are during your practice and how concentrated you are. 1 hour of full concentration coupled with well-thought practice is better than 4 hours of "playing through" or practice with little concentration ("what's for dinner?","what am I going to do tomorrow","wonder what Jim is doing now".. lol...)

And do you consider listening to a piece carefully, and at the same time reading the score, practice? Or some other form of working with the piece? Or is practice limited to hitting the pianokeys?

The best way for me to practise is doing 15-20minute sessions like Bernhard has written about in this thread and in many others. That way I can deeply concentrate without loosing concentration altough it can be difficult at times. Sometimes I will even have to skip practising because I am just not able to concentrate well enough.
I read somewhere that one should imagine all other thoughts than what you want to concentrate on, as in bubbles, and imagine you pop those bubbles and the thoughts goes away...  It kind of works for me 

While we're speaking of concentration, Steve Vai wrote about a good exersize on the guitar for concentration. One should hit a note, then do a vibrato on that note, never leaving the note, but you can of course hit the string several times to keep the note. The point was to concentrate fully on only that note and try to pick it in every different way and make different vibratoes every time, during full-concentration. At first you may only last a few minutes. The purpose of this exersize was to make those few minutes into many minutes...

Regards,
Joachim

[super5james]

The only problem with fatuige is the tip of my fingers are sore and ill just block it out them out of my head.Its true its not how long you pracise.Its how you practice that matters.I play so much because i have a fear of not getting itno Juilliard.In two years.The only day that i dont practice is on sunday when its against my reiglion to work.

[piano_luvr]

It's so hard for me to practice in peace and quiet at home, so therefore I don't get much practice.  If the tv isn't on, then someone is on the phone, or my younger brothers and sisters are trying to attack each other.  UGHG!! It's frustrating!  And then when I DO start practising, someone says: "hey, I can't hear the tv because of your piano music!"  Ughgh  *rolls eyes* 

It's very frustrating.   

[bernhard]

It's so hard for me to practice in peace and quiet at home, so therefore I don't get much practice.  If the tv isn't on, then someone is on the phone, or my younger brothers and sisters are trying to attack each other.  UGHG!! It's frustrating!  And then when I DO start practising, someone says: "hey, I can't hear the tv because of your piano music!"  Ughgh  *rolls eyes* 

It's very frustrating.   

Have you considered a digital (headphones) as a back up?

[mrchops10]

Bernhard, I just finished reading your analogy, and would like to say...um...

...

I love you.

...

Will you marry me?

[betricia]

Look Mrchops, Get in the queue.  I have already asked Bernhard out to dinner and am waiting for him to suggest a place and time.  He is very much in demand.
Patricia
 

[bernhard]

Bernhard, I just finished reading your analogy, and would like to say...um...

...

I love you.

...

Will you marry me?

Er... Mr chops10?

[xvimbi]

Er... Mr chops10?

Recently, after a performance of George Tsontakis' "Ghost Variations" by a Juilliard student (her name is Hilary, the last name now escapes me), Tsontakis remarked that she is by far the prettiest person who he saw perform this piece. Now, Stephen Hough practically made this piece his own. He was present as well, and a bit indignant, he remarked "Well, that's a matter of taste".

[princessdecadence]

Oh me! If I'm being good it's at least 20 minutes a day. That's really rubbish isn't it.

[abell88]

Er... Mr chops10?

Well...you could legally get married in Canada...

[whitepiano91]

on a school day....too sleepy n exhausted...that's y i skip school sometimes to practise at home....haha...bout 3 hours

[lufia]

lol thats the spirit whitepiano

[piano_luvr]

Have you considered a digital (headphones) as a back up?

I wish...  I don't have a digital piano, nor a player piano that can take headphones.  Just a regular accoustic piano.  I would die for a nice player/digital piano that looks and sounds like an accoustic, but has a slot for headphones.   

I've tried even playing later on at night when it's a little "quieter", but that only seems to work for a little while.  Soon, I'll have someone in the family telling me that it's "too late" for me to be playing on the piano, and that they are "trying to get some sleep".  *sigh*  :-/ 

[clef]

It's so hard for me to practice in peace and quiet at home, so therefore I don't get much practice.  If the tv isn't on, then someone is on the phone, or my younger brothers and sisters are trying to attack each other.  UGHG!! It's frustrating!  And then when I DO start practising, someone says: "hey, I can't hear the tv because of your piano music!"  Ughgh  *rolls eyes* 

It's very frustrating.   

well your family seriously need some help if they believe that the tv is more important than your piano playing.  That reminds me of my sister,...