Piano Forum



Enfant Terrible or Childishly Innocent? – Prokofiev’s Complete Piano Works Now on Piano Street
In our ongoing quest to provide you with a complete library of classical piano sheet music, the works of Sergey Prokofiev have been our most recent focus. As one of the most distinctive and original musical voices from the first half of the 20th century, Prokofiev has an obvious spot on the list of top piano composers. Welcome to the intense, humorous, and lyrical universe of his complete Sonatas, Concertos, character pieces, and transcriptions! Read more >>

Topic: Buying my first upright piano and I need advices  (Read 2861 times)

Offline davidoux

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 2
Buying my first upright piano and I need advices
on: December 27, 2017, 09:35:49 AM
Hello All,

I own a Yamaha P-80 which I have been using since I started piano, now I reached a
"Intermediate" Level and it's time to go to the next level + my daughter staretd piano as well so here is a couple of questions I have :

1. I have the possibility to buy used upright Yamaha Ux3 from 1985, built in Japan (checked serial), for 5600 euros, the seller (a professional piano renewer) can also install me a silent kit,  for 1500 eur,
the system he installs is the feurich silent premium, the issue I have is that I can barely found any information on that system, is that any good , will it be better than my current P80 for digital play?

Note :  I have seen and played the Ux3 and it's in very good condition

here is what i could found  (scroll down a bit until Feurich Silent System):

https://shacklefordpianos.com/feurich-piano-manufacturing/

2. I am investigating the possibility of buying a high-end digital piano instead (like Lx-17) is worth getting it ?

3. I am also considering buying a new piano for that same budget I could get  a new YAMAHA B3 SILENT , I still have not tested it but I would like to know with your experience, which is generally the best against Ux3 ?

Thanks you all,

David

Offline indianajo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1105
Re: Buying my first upright piano and I need advices
Reply #1 on: December 27, 2017, 08:34:48 PM
Yamaha vertical pianos are durable and well built.
They also, outside the home two octaves, have inferior tone qualities.  In the opinion of myself and several other posters on this forum.  
If you are in fact in Europe, there are a lot of better sounding choices.  In many cases the best instruments are going for E100 if you will hurry up and purchase it before the floor installer or 2 m wide TV gets there.  These will be badly out of tune and need to be inspected for obvious defects, you might be out E100 plus moving if you buy the wrong one.    I can't recommend particular brands because I live in USA, where beautiful instruments are going to the dump every day because the Yamaha salesman wears a suit, has a nice showroom, and commands the market with giveaways to institutions.  Yes, Yamaha 3 m grands sound great. No, the uprights don't, and neither does the baby grand I have access to.  A lot of popular artists have sold their performance rights to Yamaha and have to have the logo taped over when they play a Steinway or Fazoli on television, for example.  
If you are deaf from motorcycles, chainsaws,  fireworks, firearms, excessive electronic music, you won't be able to hear the difference.
If your child has been protected from these cochlia destroyers, he/she may be able to hear the difference.  The upper octaves should ring like little bells, all the way to top C.  The lower octaves should be rich and interesting, not flat & monotonic like a Yamaha console.  The amount of attack, or ping, is also an interesting feature that gives an artist a dimension he can use for expression.  Yamaha console bass doesn't have much, IMHO.  My 1940 Steinway 40 the top octaves sound very like the 3 m grands. Only the bass notes are inferior, but they are interesting in their own way. My 1982 Sohmer 39 is a good copy of the 1940 Steinway 40, which I bought in a head to head tryout with a Everett 44 (owned by yamaha at the time).    I did play 6 1/2 octave music to tryout the different pianos in 1982.  
A list of inspection methods to test out old used pianos for mechanical defects is in this thread: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=58857.0
In general the best period for console production was 1950-1978. IMHO.  Prewar 44-48" uprights can have great action and sound, but weigh 200+ kilos and cost a lot more to move. Pity, the fastest action I have ever played was an old junk Kurtzmann in a church back room.  I don't have access to any 3 m grands, it goes without saying.  No hall rental, no playing on the $80000 instrument.  Not even churches I visited.  Master's degree graduates only are hired in churches having that superior a grand.
I have to say, even the two Kawais I've heard sound better to me than Yamahas.  Not superior, but pretty good.  Not true for the Pearl River I heard.  
As far as digital pianos, they sound okay through headphones, but it takes a E1000 sound system in a superior room to sound like a piano in the same room. Digitals don't sing with themselves when you put down the damper pedal either, the way a well tuned acoustic piano will. You can turn off the sound on a digital and wear hot headphones is the main advantage, I see.  When I play enthusiastically, my head gets moist. I can't imagine enjoying a set of  headphones on my ears.  
Happy shopping.  

Offline davidoux

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 2
Re: Buying my first upright piano and I need advices
Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 09:10:59 PM
Thanks for your answer, I am not a native US-English speaker, can you however explain what does E100 means ? (My understanding by contextual analysis is "expensive" )

Offline indianajo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1105
Re: Buying my first upright piano and I need advices
Reply #3 on: December 27, 2017, 09:18:08 PM
one hundred euroes, on a cash and carry website.  I saw a Baldwin Acrosonic, nice case, on craigslist last week for $100, quick, get it out of here!!!!  That in general is one of the nicest sounding brands of piano sold here over the last 60 years.  The brand has been destroyed by globalization, so don't cross the street to hear a post 1985 Acrosonic.  Until this year a flipper was snapping up all the Acrosonics and hauling them off to a warehouse where he tuned and resold them for $600 up.  The tidal wave is in motion, off to the dump with these jewels.  
I played an Estey console 90 minutes Christmas eve. I believe that is a French brand, although this was probably produced in a US factory in the sixties.  The top five notes  went "plick" but the ones just below that sang really beautifully.  Silver Bells sounded very nice on that instrument.  
If you have a chance, hear a Bosendoerfer grand, and or a german Steinway grand. Then you'll know what sound to look for.  Remember, 7 octave repretoire; even Yamaha can get the middle 16 notes right.  Even if they won't let you play it yourself.

Offline hfmadopter

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2272
Re: Buying my first upright piano and I need advices
Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 12:02:12 PM
Indianajo always has an interesting view on upright pianos. I agree with him though on two points: 1960's era or so Baldwins have nice tone and quite decent action, I've played a few console sized uprights that were pleasing. And secondly, being in Europe I'd think would open up many possibilities to some interesting pianos, where Yamaha is Yamaha. Of course if someone specifically likes the Yamaha sound and action, so be it. But in a land of C Bechstein and Petrof and a host of other names, the American mind has to wonder. Maybe those names are not affordable but I'd have a good look around personally before settling on the first Yamaha I ran into.

I have my own take on digital pianos so won't make the comparison, I play mine via VST software and good weighted key keyboards and pianos can have a very grand piano like feel and response once setup properly. But not everyone is into this kind of setup. I also have a real grand to set it up against, some setups play better than that admittedly old grand piano, none have the resonant string interplay or real wood case resonance for that matter. Though you can set up some VST models to be very very good. They are subject to how good a sound system you play it through.
Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert