Your opinion and thoughts on a certain book

[ryoutak]

A few months ago, I had the opportunity to travel overseas and managed to secure myself a piano book from a popular bookstore.

Quickly skimming through the book, I deem that it is useful and bought it on a whim. The book is "Fundamental Principles of the Leschetizky Method" by Marie Prentner.

I will admit that I have not fully read the book (I did read the first 20 pages and some pages at the back) but before I would like to commit more time with the book, I would like to ask for everyone's thoughts and opinions regarding this book.

Good or bad, please share your honest opinions and views and try to have a peaceful and civilized discussion/debate if someone disagrees with your opinion. I will do my best to be open-minded, so start commenting!

[timothy42b]

I have it.  I haven't looked at it in several years.

From what I recall, it is extremely finger-centric, an approach that has fallen into disfavor. 

It did describe "thumb-under" in more detail than any other book I've seen.  The progressive exercises seemed to make sense, but would certainly build unhealthy tension if done without very close guidance, and maybe even then. 

Just my opinion, FWIW.   

[ryoutak]

I have it.  I haven't looked at it in several years.

From what I recall, it is extremely finger-centric, an approach that has fallen into disfavor. 

It did describe "thumb-under" in more detail than any other book I've seen.  The progressive exercises seemed to make sense, but would certainly build unhealthy tension if done without very close guidance, and maybe even then. 

Just my opinion, FWIW.   

Do you minding explain why finger-centric has fallen into disfavor?

I accept the fact that building unhealthy tension is bad as we would usually prefer to have ourselves relax while playing.

I've only recently stumble upon this video about the Russian method to relax. Not sure if it's useful or not, but it is an eye-opener for me.

[hardy_practice]

Available here: https://www.pianostreet.com/search/special.php

[ryoutak]

Available here: https://www.pianostreet.com/search/special.php

No offense but I seriously have no idea on how your link can help me.

[timothy42b]

Do you minding explain why finger-centric has fallen into disfavor?

Others here are far more qualified than me. 

[hardy_practice]

No offense but I seriously have no idea on how your link can help me.

It can help others help you.  The book also seems to be here: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c100411653  The below is wrong since Matthay (or even Chopin):

[timothy42b]

I'd forgotten that picture.

Good example.  Don't do that. 

[louispodesta]

A few months ago, I had the opportunity to travel overseas and managed to secure myself a piano book from a popular bookstore.

Quickly skimming through the book, I deem that it is useful and bought it on a whim. The book is "Fundamental Principles of the Leschetizky Method" by Marie Prentner.

I will admit that I have not fully read the book (I did read the first 20 pages and some pages at the back) but before I would like to commit more time with the book, I would like to ask for everyone's thoughts and opinions regarding this book.

Good or bad, please share your honest opinions and views and try to have a peaceful and civilized discussion/debate if someone disagrees with your opinion. I will do my best to be open-minded, so start commenting!

My recommendation has always been Malvine Bree's book (1903).  She was a teaching assistant to Leschetizky for the better part of 20 years, and he penned the introduction to this work.

Further, my much maligned arpeggiation posts/video and its accompanying "breaking of the hands" (bass note played slightly ahead of the soprano) are referenced in detail on pages #72-73.

It is available through your local library (for free) or through Amazon in Paperback.

https://www.amazon.com/Leschetizky-Method-Guide-Correct-Playing/dp/0486295966

[ryoutak]

My recommendation has always been Malvine Bree's book (1903).  She was a teaching assistant to Leschetizky for the better part of 20 years, and he penned the introduction to this work.

Further, my much maligned arpeggiation posts/video and its accompanying "breaking of the hands" (bass note played slightly ahead of the soprano) are referenced in detail on pages #72-73.

It is available through your local library (for free) or through Amazon in Paperback.

https://www.amazon.com/Leschetizky-Method-Guide-Correct-Playing/dp/0486295966

Thank you very much for your insight. I've already added your recommendation to my list of books to buy.

I guess for now I'll just read the later part of the book about musicianship, performance and other stuffs and see what I can salvage from it.

[hardy_practice]

Here's the other Leschetizky book. https://archive.org/details/groundworklesch00bakegoog

All exercises are pretty well OK so use your book.  Just have the fingers naturaly placed.  Chopin started beginners on E/B major scale.  That way the middle (longer) fingers rested naturally on the 3 black notes.

[ryoutak]

Here's the other Leschetizky book. https://archive.org/details/groundworklesch00bakegoog

All exercises are pretty well OK so use your book.  Just have the fingers naturaly placed.  Chopin started beginners on E/B major scale.  That way the middle (longer) fingers rested naturally on the 3 black notes.

Interesting! So I can still take advantage of the exercises, but with the right fingers posture. Any photos about the Chopin stuff that you mentioned so that I can use as reference so I can have a clear idea on how to place my fingers?

[timothy42b]

Letis.etc teaches sharply curled fingers, bent back (upward) wrist, and force applied by the fingers without use of arm weight, body, or relaxation. 

If you did the exercises with a relaxed hand, much flatter fingers, the back of the hand in line with the forearm, and arm weight, you might benefit.

I'd say the chances of doing that without a good teacher are small, but you might surprise us.

[hardy_practice]

Here's the RH at the top of a B scale.  Also google 'Chopin's Hand'.  I think you'll find his fingers a bit longer than mine.

[keypeg]

When I restarted piano a decade ago and before I had a teacher, I downloaded some book by Les., worked with one idea, then had a teacher and haven't looked at it since.  The idea I tried then was that a student should have a physical feel of what to do before starting to work on music, and there was a particular exercise of pressing a single key while having the wrist move up and down.  That was the impression I got then.  That particular activity made sense to me, because while you concentrate on the wrist staying mobile, you are also not learning to keep your wrist (and arm, and hand) ultra-tense, as one is wont to do.  In fact, when I self-taught as a child using the old fashioned material passed on to me, I acquired a rigid immobile wrist and arm.

I just looked at what I downloaded then.  It is written by someone who says what Les. did and said - maybe it's the one you folks are talking about, maybe another.  As I read some of the material and look at some of the exercises, with the knowledge I have now, I might be able to apply those things in the manner they were intended.  There are some clues that suppleness and responsiveness in the arms and wrist etc. were also intended.  But I would not use this book for self-teaching.  I could see a teacher who fully understands how the body and technique work at the piano, using this book, while guiding, and observing the student. Done on one's own, there is too much that could be misapplied in a harmful way.  I don't know if it's the same book.

[louispodesta]

Thank you very much for your insight. I've already added your recommendation to my list of books to buy.

I guess for now I'll just read the later part of the book about musicianship, performance and other stuffs and see what I can salvage from it.

Thank you for your kind words.  Additionally, I proffer the following comments:

1)  Sit comfortably, and then raise you arms (limp hands) in front of you to a level equal to your chin.  Then, look directly at your hands.

2)  That is the normal curvature of the fingers for which you are staring.  It is different with every hand, especially with female and male.

3)  Then, as the late and excellent teacher Charles Aschbrenner taught, you position your entire body ergonomically.  And, this is from foot to head, which is elucidated on his website www.pulsepatterning.com

4) From there, one can "Induce" and also "Deduce" the mechanics of how to play the piano per ones' own body.

[keypeg]

3)  Then, as the late and excellent teacher Charles Aschbrenner taught, you position your entire body ergonomically.  And, this is from foot to head, which is elucidated on his website www.pulsepatterning.com

4) From there, one can "Induce" and also "Deduce" the mechanics of how to play the piano per ones' own body.

Point 3 is not stressed often enough.

And how often do we see on-line "technique" instructions that only show the hand from wrist to fingertip.  Very misleading.

[louispodesta]

Point 3 is not stressed often enough.

And how often do we see on-line "technique" instructions that only show the hand from wrist to fingertip.  Very misleading.

Thank you for your kind words.   Plus, since and before his death, Charles Aschbrenner's video instruction course (I don't get anything from this) is now available online (www.pulsepatterning.com).

So, anyone who wants (along with Thomas Mark, www.pianomap.com) to experience an entire body experience, in terms of their complete piano technique matriculation, this is it!