Piano Forum

Piano Street Magazine:
Italian Focus at Cremona Musica Piano Experience

At the end of September, the annual Cremona Musica exhibition – a significant global event – took place, offering new insights into the music industry. As a member of the Media Lounge, Piano Street is again pleased to provide a pianistic perspective on key events. Read more

Pages: [1] Go Down

Topic: Bad performances by great pianists (Read 11536 times)

pianoville

Full Member
Posts: 203

Bad performances by great pianists

on: January 20, 2018, 11:07:28 PM

I haven't seen this kind of thread before and thought it would be a fun thread. Feel free to post interpretations by your favourite pianists that you don't like! I will start of with a few:

Not necessarily my favourite pianist, but I really dislike this one!

Pretty self-explanatory

Logged

"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

louispodesta

Sr. Member
Posts: 1077

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #1 on: January 21, 2018, 12:55:57 AM

Quote from: pianoville on January 20, 2018, 11:07:28 PM

I haven't seen this kind of thread before and thought it would be a fun thread. Feel free to post interpretations by your favourite pianists that you don't like! I will start of with a few:

Not necessarily my favourite pianist, but I really dislike this one!

Pretty self-explanatory

This extraordinary post is the first one I have seen on this website which directly challenges the modern/current post World War II method of Music Conservatory Performance. That means a very Note Perfect/Robotic method of playing. And, this a methodology of performance which some think puts a back seat to musicality.

Most importantly, this post is contrary to the same method of piano study, WE HAVE ALL BEEN TAUGHT!

The late Carl Friedberg (who taught at Juilliard for 23 years) was a student of both Clara Schumann and most importantly of Johannes Brahms (who personally coached him).

In the biography of Carl Friedberg, there is a separate Chapter describing his teaching technique. One of its basic tenants is that: after a student had played their piece for the teacher, then there were corrections for wrong notes and improper dynamics.

After that, Carl Friedberg instructed the student, accordingly: Now, how are we going to make this Music?

Enough said.

Logged

mjames

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2569

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #2 on: January 21, 2018, 03:30:54 AM

I bet Horowitz still plays the etude better than I do.

Logged

beethovenfan01

Sr. Member
Posts: 288

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #3 on: January 21, 2018, 04:15:01 AM

Quote from: mjames on January 21, 2018, 03:30:54 AM

I bet Horowitz still plays the etude better than I do.

This is Horowitz on a bad day ... but seriously, though, I dislike most of his playing (with the exception of his Schubert and his Rachmaninoff), at least in this time of my life--most of it seems too bangy (like his Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 15). Not a Horowitz bash, so please don't start. Just saying.

Well you can always check out classical music fails

and

, I think there's a couple piano ones in there, like the guy forgetting his Chopin Op. 25 No. 6--so sad!

Logged

Practicing:
Bach Chromatic Fantasie and Fugue
Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 1
Shostakovich Preludes Op. 34
Scriabin Etude Op. 2 No. 1
Liszt Fantasie and Fugue on BACH

mjames

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2569

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #4 on: January 21, 2018, 04:25:26 AM

I tend to dislike Horowitz when he plays adrenaline music (bang bang also being my main complaint), but in calmer music he becomes one of my favorites. The renditions of Chopin's nocturnes, mazurkas, and Schubert's impromptus are just glorious; there's always a great deal of color in them!

Logged

beethovenfan01

Sr. Member
Posts: 288

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #5 on: January 21, 2018, 05:24:31 AM

Quote

I tend to dislike Horowitz when he plays adrenaline music (bang bang also being my main complaint), but in calmer music he becomes one of my favorites. The renditions of Chopin's nocturnes, mazurkas, and Schubert's impromptus are just glorious; there's always a great deal of color in them!

Yes, absolutely. His Schubert B-flat Sonata is one of my favorite recordings of all time.

By the way, can you recommend a good recording of Chopin's 3rd Scherzo? I started working on it today, but I haven't listened to any recordings of it besides Rubenstein's (which is great).

Logged

Practicing:
Bach Chromatic Fantasie and Fugue
Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 1
Shostakovich Preludes Op. 34
Scriabin Etude Op. 2 No. 1
Liszt Fantasie and Fugue on BACH

mjames

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2569

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #6 on: January 21, 2018, 07:30:05 AM

asian goddess:

Dead old white guy:

Wouldnt advise listening to recordings during your learning phase tbh, youll end up practicing the music in the image of the recordings you like ;3

Logged

klavieronin

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 892

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #7 on: January 21, 2018, 08:27:21 AM

Quote from: mjames on January 21, 2018, 07:30:05 AM

Wouldnt advise listening to recordings during your learning phase tbh, youll end up practicing the music in the image of the recordings you like ;3

I actually like that Rachmaninoff recording. Also I'm not sure listening to recordings is as detrimental as a lot of people seem to think. I always listened to recordings before I would start learning something, then stop once actually started to practice the work. It helped get a much clearer picture in my mind of the structure of the work which I think helped the learning process. I always seemed to find my own interpretation (with the help of my teacher, obviously) despite initially having someone else's in mind. Plus of course, if you can't listen to recordings of what you want to play how can you ever get a chance to play your favourite music?

Logged

ronde_des_sylphes

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2987

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #8 on: January 21, 2018, 10:29:44 AM

Horowitz was heavily medicated during that Tokyo concert btw.

Logged

My website - www.andrewwrightpianist.com
Info and samples from my first commercial album - https://youtu.be/IlRtSyPAVNU
My SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/andrew-wright-35

pianoville

Full Member
Posts: 203

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #9 on: January 21, 2018, 11:30:56 AM

Quote from: ronde_des_sylphes on January 21, 2018, 10:29:44 AM

Horowitz was heavily medicated during that Tokyo concert btw.

Yeah, I know. Kind of sad to see a pianist of his caliber in such a terrible shape

Logged

"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

ronde_des_sylphes

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2987

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #10 on: January 21, 2018, 12:39:52 PM

Quote from: pianoville on January 21, 2018, 11:30:56 AM

Kind of sad to see a pianist of his caliber in such a terrible shape

Yeah, I don't watch stuff from that concert, out of respect.

Logged

My website - www.andrewwrightpianist.com
Info and samples from my first commercial album - https://youtu.be/IlRtSyPAVNU
My SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/andrew-wright-35

louispodesta

Sr. Member
Posts: 1077

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #11 on: January 22, 2018, 12:31:10 AM

"For the Record," Horowitz' piano had abnormal hammers, which were: very old hard hammers, new soft hammers, and other hammers coated with lacquer. My personal piano technician actually saw this as a trainee in the 1970's at the Steinway Piano Factory after Horowitz' death because he made the specific request to inspect the action.

Horowitz had a recording studio (built by Columbia Records) into his luxurious New York apartment. His contract with them stipulated that whenever his fancy suited him, he would call Thomas Frost (Producer/Engineer) and then they would send a taxi for him to record some Tape. The point being, that it is really easy to sound like God, when you have this type of arrangement.

This is only a very small part of the Horowitz mythology, but (more importantly), he was not the only "Great Concert Pianist" to have the same treatment.

Logged

louispodesta

Sr. Member
Posts: 1077

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #12 on: January 22, 2018, 12:39:30 AM

Correction:

I meant to say the late 1980's, in regards Horowitz" death.

Logged

tenk

Full Member
Posts: 132

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #13 on: January 30, 2018, 10:34:37 PM

Quote from: louispodesta on January 22, 2018, 12:31:10 AM

"For the Record," Horowitz' piano had abnormal hammers, which were: very old hard hammers, new soft hammers, and other hammers coated with lacquer. My personal piano technician actually saw this as a trainee in the 1970's at the Steinway Piano Factory after Horowitz' death because he made the specific request to inspect the action.

Anecdote, and one for which you continue to provide zero evidence.

Quote from: louispodesta on January 22, 2018, 12:31:10 AM

Horowitz had a recording studio (built by Columbia Records) into his luxurious New York apartment. His contract with them stipulated that whenever his fancy suited him, he would call Thomas Frost (Producer/Engineer) and then they would send a taxi for him to record some Tape. The point being, that it is really easy to sound like God, when you have this type of arrangement.

Uh...no? How does this even make sense? If you can't play, you can't play, no matter how fancy a studio or how much tape.

Now please complete the "Louis Cycle" and post your rolling-chords video.

Logged

mrcreosote

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 229

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #14 on: February 28, 2018, 01:19:16 AM

Worst ever epic fail of a single wrong note award: Lang Lang

(not the complete memory fail of that Chinese guy doing the Chopin Concerto where they had to quit and refund the tickets) was Lang Lang playing Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody #2 at the end of one of the late night talk shows where he played perfectly the wrong note of one of the iconic, slow, loud melodies. This would be equivalent of hitting the 3rd note of the Bells of Moscow wrong.

I have tried to find this clip on youtube, but it does not appear to be there. I don't know how that is possible. Could the LL machine be working around the clock to take any that surface? Doesn't make any sense to me. BTW, LL was dress in black with a black t-shirt. I found reference of "Lang Lang and Friends" on Jay Leno Season 21 Epi 12 w/Carol Burnett in October 2012 which might be it except for the "and Friends."

Brain fart I guess...

Honorable Mention: Complete memory fail of that Chinese guy doing the Chopin Concerto where they had to quit and refund the tickets.

Best Save Ever: Maria Pirez who realized at the performance that the orchestra was playing the WRONG Mozart Concerto she was prepared for. Fabulous youtube video of the progression of emotions on her face as she went from shock to bucking up and playing it, perfectly too. What a memory she has!

Logged

beethovenfan01

Sr. Member
Posts: 288

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #15 on: March 01, 2018, 06:22:33 PM

Quote from: mrcreosote on February 28, 2018, 01:19:16 AM

Worst ever epic fail of a single wrong note award: Lang Lang

(not the complete memory fail of that Chinese guy doing the Chopin Concerto where they had to quit and refund the tickets) was Lang Lang playing Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody #2 at the end of one of the late night talk shows where he played perfectly the wrong note of one of the iconic, slow, loud melodies. This would be equivalent of hitting the 3rd note of the Bells of Moscow wrong.

I have tried to find this clip on youtube, but it does not appear to be there. I don't know how that is possible. Could the LL machine be working around the clock to take any that surface? Doesn't make any sense to me. BTW, LL was dress in black with a black t-shirt. I found reference of "Lang Lang and Friends" on Jay Leno Season 21 Epi 12 w/Carol Burnett in October 2012 which might be it except for the "and Friends."

Brain fart I guess...

Honorable Mention: Complete memory fail of that Chinese guy doing the Chopin Concerto where they had to quit and refund the tickets.

Best Save Ever: Maria Pirez who realized at the performance that the orchestra was playing the WRONG Mozart Concerto she was prepared for. Fabulous youtube video of the progression of emotions on her face as she went from shock to bucking up and playing it, perfectly too. What a memory she has!

I just checked that out. Geez!!! That's my absolute worst nightmare!

Logged

Practicing:
Bach Chromatic Fantasie and Fugue
Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 1
Shostakovich Preludes Op. 34
Scriabin Etude Op. 2 No. 1
Liszt Fantasie and Fugue on BACH

dogperson

Sr. Member
Posts: 1559

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #16 on: March 01, 2018, 06:48:18 PM

Quote from: mrcreosote on February 28, 2018, 01:19:16 AM

...
Honorable Mention: Complete memory fail of that Chinese guy doing the Chopin Concerto where they had to quit and refund the tickets.

This is not quite correct, in that Yundi Li bravely stayed and restarted the movement
https://slippedisc.com/2015/11/breaking-yundi-crashes-out-of-chopin-concerto/

Logged

mjames

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2569

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #17 on: March 01, 2018, 07:26:18 PM

how do you know it was Yundi Li he was talking about? Out of a 500 million or so "that Chinese guy", a good few hundred thousands of them play the Chopin concerti.

Logged

dogperson

Sr. Member
Posts: 1559

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #18 on: March 01, 2018, 07:33:03 PM

Quote from: mjames on March 01, 2018, 07:26:18 PM

how do you know it was Yundi Li he was talking about? Out of a 500 million or so "that Chinese guy", a good few hundred thousands of them play the Chopin concerti.

Hmmm, Why don’t you provide another name then? Particularly someone who refunded the ticket cost

Logged

rachmaninoff_forever

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5097

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #19 on: March 01, 2018, 10:49:21 PM

It's not Yundi Lis fault for playing a poor Chopin concerto

Because they both suck so it doesn't matter how well you play it

Logged

Live large, die large. Leave a giant coffin.

mjames

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2569

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #20 on: March 01, 2018, 11:00:06 PM

you wish you had the talent to even come up with the first few bars of the piano solo part.

Logged

rachmaninoff_forever

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5097

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #21 on: March 02, 2018, 04:40:55 AM

Quote from: mjames on March 01, 2018, 11:00:06 PM

you wish you had the talent to even come up with the first few bars of the piano solo part.

EXACTLY THE PIANO PART BUT NOT THE ORCHESTRA PART

Logged

Live large, die large. Leave a giant coffin.

mjames

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2569

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #22 on: March 02, 2018, 04:50:29 AM

Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on March 02, 2018, 04:40:55 AM

EXACTLY THE PIANO PART BUT NOT THE ORCHESTRA PART

no one gives a shat about orchestra, it's an early romantic concerto; orchestral cues were mostly just filler. It was written in the style of composers like Hummels and John Field, where orchestras played a supporting/background role to the more brilliant piano soloist parts.

Logged

rachmaninoff_forever

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5097

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #23 on: March 02, 2018, 05:46:00 AM

Quote from: mjames on March 02, 2018, 04:50:29 AM

no one gives a shat about orchestra, it's an early romantic concerto; orchestral cues were mostly just filler. It was written in the style of composers like Hummels and John Field, where orchestras played a supporting/background role to the more brilliant piano soloist parts.

Okay and?

concertos where the orchestras sole purpose is to fill in the gaps are just bad concertos.

I'm not a Chopin hater though. I just don't like the etudes sonatas concertos and the first ballade

Logged

Live large, die large. Leave a giant coffin.

mjames

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2569

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #24 on: March 02, 2018, 06:07:14 AM

Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on March 02, 2018, 05:46:00 AM

Okay and?

concertos where the orchestras sole purpose is to fill in the gaps are just bad concertos.

I'm not a Chopin hater though. I just don't like the etudes sonatas concertos and the first ballade

"Im not a hater, just think his greatest works all sck."

I'm a pianist, I'll judge a piano work meant for a piano soloist based on its piano solo parts. In that regard I consider it to be one of the best concertos in the literature.

Besides you brought it up because of Yundi Li's performance not the first violinist's, the way you phrased made it sound like you thought the piano part scked.

Logged

rachmaninoff_forever

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5097

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #25 on: March 02, 2018, 02:47:11 PM

Quote from: mjames on March 02, 2018, 06:07:14 AM

"Im not a hater, just think his greatest works all sck."

I'm a pianist, I'll judge a piano work meant for a piano soloist based on its piano solo parts. In that regard I consider it to be one of the best concertos in the literature.

Besides you brought it up because of Yundi Li's performance not the first violinist's, the way you phrased made it sound like you thought the piano part scked.

his preludes nocturnes and some of the scherzi is where it's at.

It's for piano AND orchestra so you have to take in consideration the orchestra part. Otherwise why play it with an orchestra part in the first place

The RACH CONCERTOS THO... the orchestra parts are just as good and as important as the piano parts which is why Rach 2 and 3 will always sell more than Chopin 1 and 2

Logged

Live large, die large. Leave a giant coffin.

outin

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 8211

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #26 on: March 02, 2018, 03:13:21 PM

Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on March 02, 2018, 02:47:11 PM

his preludes nocturnes and some of the scherzi is where it's at.

It's for piano AND orchestra so you have to take in consideration the orchestra part. Otherwise why play it with an orchestra part in the first place

The RACH CONCERTOS THO... the orchestra parts are just as good and as important as the piano parts which is why Rach 2 and 3 will always sell more than Chopin 1 and 2

Hmmm....while the Chopin concertos are great piano pieces with an orchestral accompaniment, the Rach concertos are sentimental crap more suited as film music...so lets listen to the Brahms concertos instead!
Which I am going to do tonight

Logged

rachmaninoff_forever

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5097

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #27 on: March 02, 2018, 04:39:41 PM

Mjames I think we can agree that outin has bad taste in music anyways and anything she says can't be taken seriously

Logged

Live large, die large. Leave a giant coffin.

mrcreosote

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 229

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #28 on: March 03, 2018, 01:39:25 AM

I guess it was Yundi. I read the event as a news item, cringed, and wished no further details. I did a minute of checking and it appeared that people did ask for refunds - I probably remembered that incorrectly. Sorry for he error.

The LL situation is another matter. I've spend at least an hour trying to ind the Jay Leno program he was on (I think) to no avail - the streaming sites I know of have only sporadic coverage of all those programs. I'm surprised no one here remembers it. It was a stunning. And I actually wonder although epic, what percentage of he viewing public noticed it? I'm guessing more than I would imagine. It is amazing how poor musical comprehension is in the public.

Logged

furiouzpianist

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 370

Re: Bad performances by great pianists

Reply #29 on: March 14, 2018, 05:02:39 PM

Horowitz came back in great shape in 1985 though.... he really recovered nicely after those Tokyo appearances - he should not have played in that state...

Logged

My youtube channel: please sub!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC94gfo_fDGlKfy5y9sUXr0Q

Sign-up to post reply

Pages: [1] Go Up

For more information about this topic, click search below!

Piano Street Magazine:
A Massive Glimpse Into Ligeti’s Pianistic Universe

Performing Ligeti’s complete Etudes is a challenge for any pianist. Young pianist Han Chen has received both attention and glowing reviews for his recording of the entire set for Naxos. We had the opportunity to speak with the pianist after his impressive recital at the Piano Experience in Cremona last fall. Read more

Piano Forum

Piano Street Magazine:Italian Focus at Cremona Musica Piano Experience

Topic: Bad performances by great pianists (Read 11536 times)

Piano Street Magazine:A Massive Glimpse Into Ligeti’s Pianistic Universe

Piano Street Magazine:
Italian Focus at Cremona Musica Piano Experience

Piano Street Magazine:
A Massive Glimpse Into Ligeti’s Pianistic Universe