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Favorite Fugue? (Read 2964 times)

Offline beethovenfan01

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Favorite Fugue?
« on: January 22, 2018, 11:13:50 PM »
Just throwing this out there.

Mine are:

Fugue from Bach Chromatic Fantasie and Fugue.
Fugue from 3rd movement of Beethoven's Sonata Op. 110
Fugue from Liszt Sonata in B minor (just because Liszt is awesome).

As you can see, not only limited to Bach fugues (though his fugues are indeed awesome). If you only like Bach fugues, go ahead and only put down Bach fugues! I just want to see what other ones people like.
Practicing:
Bach Chromatic Fantasie and Fugue
Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 1
Shostakovich Preludes Op. 34
Scriabin Etude Op. 2 No. 1
Liszt Fantasie and Fugue on BACH

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 12:35:09 AM »
Mine would probably have to be;

fugue from Bach's A Minor Prelude and Fugue, BWV 543
final fugue in Shostakovich's 24 Preludes and Fugues
fugue from Ravel's Le Tombeau De Couperin
fugue from Liapunov's Variations and Fugue on a Russian Theme, Op.49

Offline ahinton

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 05:02:28 PM »
Assuming that we're cponfining this to fugues for piano:

The fugues from Szymanowski's second and third piano sonatas.

The one from Reger's Variations and Fugue on a theme of Bach.

The finale of Hammerkalvier.

There's a lot by Sorabji.

Best,

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Offline georgey

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #3 on: January 30, 2018, 01:41:06 AM »
These are just a few of my favorites (some already mentioned):

Bach (the King of Fugue):  All of WTC 1 and 2 (excluding the preludes of course), All of Art of Fugue (excluding his amazing canons of course), fugues in orchestral suites #2 and #3, Prelude and Fugue in E-flat Saint Ann for organ, chromatic fantasy and fugue

Beethoven:  Hammerklavier last movement and Fugue in Op. 110, grosse fuge from late string quartet,  Fugues in the Missa Solemnis (Gloria and Credo), the 2 fugues in Diabelli variations

Brahms: Variations and Fugue on theme by Handel, 2 fugues in the German Requiem

Franck:  Prelude, Chorale  and Fugue


Offline georgey

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #4 on: January 30, 2018, 04:05:53 AM »

fugue from Bach's A Minor Prelude and Fugue, BWV 543


This is great also.  I like just about all of his organ fugues.  The first I ever heard was his little fugue in g minor which is also a favorite of mine.  Now you got me interested.  Add also Wedge fugue, great fugue in g minor, fugue from the Dorian toccata and fugue, Tocata, adagio and fugue in C major ........


Offline chopinlover01

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #5 on: January 30, 2018, 05:57:08 AM »
I don't have a favorite offhand, but there's a great one in the Beethoven A flat sonata, Op. 110 I believe.
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Offline brogers70

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #6 on: January 30, 2018, 12:48:20 PM »
Hands down, Beethoven's Grosse Fuge.

Offline j_tour

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #7 on: February 01, 2018, 03:45:18 AM »
I can't deal with the Beethoven String Quartet fugues -- especially the Große Fugue, just makes me angry.  To a lesser extent the one from Op. 131.  However, from Op. 110 is more my speed, although I can only just hack through it not very well.

Bach:  From the Chromatic Fantasy+Fugue (d minor)
The fugues in E minor from the Toccata and from the E minor Partita
Contrapunctus IV from Ars fuga

And, you know, the kind of silly E minor fugue from WTCI -- yeah, I know it's only two voices and isn't really much to analyze, I just think it's a fun, light one that is kind of ominous sounding (and for me it can be challenging to play it as quick as humanly possible -- even Gould's tempo is more than I can manage and have it sound smooth).

From WTCI, A major Prelude (it is a fugue) and the Fugue are great.  As is the Bbm, and the E major, also from WTCI, is so lighthearted and fun.
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline georgey

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #8 on: February 01, 2018, 04:42:20 AM »
I can't deal with the Beethoven String Quartet fugues -- especially the Große Fugue, just makes me angry.  To a lesser extent the one from Op. 131.  However, from Op. 110 is more my speed, although I can only just hack through it not very well.

Bach:  From the Chromatic Fantasy+Fugue (d minor)
The fugues in E minor from the Toccata and from the E minor Partita
Contrapunctus IV from Ars fuga

And, you know, the kind of silly E minor fugue from WTCI -- yeah, I know it's only two voices and isn't really much to analyze, I just think it's a fun, light one that is kind of ominous sounding (and for me it can be challenging to play it as quick as humanly possible -- even Gould's tempo is more than I can manage and have it sound smooth).

From WTCI, A major Prelude (it is a fugue) and the Fugue are great.  As is the Bbm, and the E major, also from WTCI, is so lighthearted and fun.

Op 131 fugue - I forgot about that one.  I love this one.  So sad.  :'(

E minor fugue from WTCI -- yeah, I know it's only two voices - I was going to say that this is one of his weakest fugues.

From WTCI, A major Prelude (it is a fugue) - I might disagree with this.  It is fugue like though.

E major, also from WTCI - the prelude is not a fugue - sorry! Or you mean the fugue, not the prelude. The fugue is great.

As is the Bbm - great fugue.

How about the c# minor fugue from book 1 - Maybe my favorite of all

These are just my humble opinions. 


Offline klavieronin

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #9 on: February 01, 2018, 05:13:53 AM »
The E minor fugue from WTC I is really fun to play. It's a great little finger exercise too.

Offline j_tour

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #10 on: February 01, 2018, 05:43:05 AM »
E minor fugue from WTCI -- yeah, I know it's only two voices - I was going to say that this is one of his weakest fugues.

The E minor fugue from WTC I is really fun to play. It's a great little finger exercise too.

Yeah, I like it because it's simple and kind of stupid -- well, not stupid, exactly, it's just simple and kind of strange, not much like the other fugues in the 48.  And it's a nice warm up to try to play lightning fast smoothly -- I'm not at maximum physical possible speed, but it's still fun to try to get as fast as possible.  Even the prelude, while it's kind of boring, well, instead of doing scales in thirds you can just rip through the "presto" portion and save some time.  :)

Similarly, a more interesting fugue, also considered one of the "easier" ones, the Bb major from book 1:  just something about the way the textures of the thirds sounds on a modern piano is very pleasant to me.  The G minor fugue from book 1 too, not very difficult, but it just sounds good, you know, to heck with complexity -- plus, easier to sight-read!  :)

Quote
E major, also from WTCI - the prelude is not a fugue - sorry! Or you mean the fugue, not the prelude. The fugue is great.

Yeah, the Prelude from WTCI E major is one of the weakest preludes in both books IMHO -- the one from BkII, the prelude, is interesting, though, as are both fugues.  If it were me, I'd just swap the E major Sinfonia for the prelude, more interesting, or at least the E maj prelude from book 2, which has some next textures.  About as opposite characters, the fugues, as you can get but both great for different reasons.  The Book I fugue is almost like a late baroque rock and roll piece.  Very snappy!

Quote
How about the c# minor fugue from book 1 - Maybe my favorite of all

I'd have to look and refresh my memory.  I will split the difference and say the F# minor fugue is great, from Bk I.

//ETA just read through the prelude and fugue, book I, C# minor.  I don't even think I'd read those before.  The prelude is simple and charming.

The fugue is, it reminds me of the Bbm from WTCI -- the notes, any kid can play, but having it make sense, the structure (it's a long-ish fugue). 

Well, thank you!  That's definitely one that I'll be including in things to read through when I'm ... just kind of looking for something new to play not in my regular memorization pile of things.

Well now it's getting too tough to decide from all the WTC ones -- I've changed my tune about the C major fugue (no, I would never, not in a million years, ever play the prelude again, sorry Bach!  Can't stay awake for that!), and I get a kick out of that one, just stretto piled on stretto.  Short and weird little fugue.  Took me a few months of just reading it every once in a blue moon for it to sink in, how to make it sound like music instead of some kind of exercise.

Yeah, I'm on mixed view about "is the A major WTCI prelude a fugue or not?"  I don't really care, you know it's got the subject and kind of a countersubject, some little episodes.  I probably just read it in some book somewhere and thought, "Well, close enough!"  It's still fun to play, and actually kind of sounds good with the fugue.

Supposedly Beethoven used to love that A maj Fugue, maybe the prelude too -- don't know where I heard that.

////////

I should have included one from Schumann's Vier Fügen, but I can't pick one of them, and they kind of go together as a set to me.  Plus, I can only hack through them sight-reading, at a slow pace, so I don't feel that much knowledge about them.  Great YouTube somewhere of a very elderly Richter doing them in concert, reading from a score.
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline visitor

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #11 on: February 01, 2018, 12:02:37 PM »
Got a working list but this Mozart usually fits up in top 5 along w some Shosty,  Kapustin, and few others

Offline georgey

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #12 on: February 01, 2018, 04:01:28 PM »
Yeah, I like it because it's simple and kind of stupid -- well, not stupid, exactly, it's just simple and kind of strange, not much like the other fugues in the 48.  And it's a nice warm up to try to play lightning fast smoothly -- I'm not at maximum physical possible speed, but it's still fun to try to get as fast as possible.  Even the prelude, while it's kind of boring, well, instead of doing scales in thirds you can just rip through the "presto" portion and save some time.  :)

Similarly, a more interesting fugue, also considered one of the "easier" ones, the Bb major from book 1:  just something about the way the textures of the thirds sounds on a modern piano is very pleasant to me.  The G minor fugue from book 1 too, not very difficult, but it just sounds good, you know, to heck with complexity -- plus, easier to sight-read!  :)

Yeah, the Prelude from WTCI E major is one of the weakest preludes in both books IMHO -- the one from BkII, the prelude, is interesting, though, as are both fugues.  If it were me, I'd just swap the E major Sinfonia for the prelude, more interesting, or at least the E maj prelude from book 2, which has some next textures.  About as opposite characters, the fugues, as you can get but both great for different reasons.  The Book I fugue is almost like a late baroque rock and roll piece.  Very snappy!

I'd have to look and refresh my memory.  I will split the difference and say the F# minor fugue is great, from Bk I.

//ETA just read through the prelude and fugue, book I, C# minor.  I don't even think I'd read those before.  The prelude is simple and charming.

The fugue is, it reminds me of the Bbm from WTCI -- the notes, any kid can play, but having it make sense, the structure (it's a long-ish fugue).  

Well, thank you!  That's definitely one that I'll be including in things to read through when I'm ... just kind of looking for something new to play not in my regular memorization pile of things.

Well now it's getting too tough to decide from all the WTC ones -- I've changed my tune about the C major fugue (no, I would never, not in a million years, ever play the prelude again, sorry Bach!  Can't stay awake for that!), and I get a kick out of that one, just stretto piled on stretto.  Short and weird little fugue.  Took me a few months of just reading it every once in a blue moon for it to sink in, how to make it sound like music instead of some kind of exercise.

Yeah, I'm on mixed view about "is the A major WTCI prelude a fugue or not?"  I don't really care, you know it's got the subject and kind of a countersubject, some little episodes.  I probably just read it in some book somewhere and thought, "Well, close enough!"  It's still fun to play, and actually kind of sounds good with the fugue.

Supposedly Beethoven used to love that A maj Fugue, maybe the prelude too -- don't know where I heard that.

////////

I should have included one from Schumann's Vier Fügen, but I can't pick one of them, and they kind of go together as a set to me.  Plus, I can only hack through them sight-reading, at a slow pace, so I don't feel that much knowledge about them.  Great YouTube somewhere of a very elderly Richter doing them in concert, reading from a score.

Bach has written fugues (such as in his trio sonatas for organ) where there are additional voices playing at the very beginning of the fugue.  One of the problems that I might have in calling the A major prelude a fugue is the exposition ends almost half way through the piece.  I personally would call this fugue-like as opposed to a fugue.  just my opinion.

The C# minor fugue (may be my favorite in entire WTC) has harmony that is very appealing to me and the 3 sections combine the 3 themes in amazing ways.  It is actually not a triple fugue though since it does not have 3 formal expositions.  I hope you spend time on this playing or listening to it.  The C major prelude book 1 - still love this.  The C major fugue only lasts 2 minutes, but I feel I have been though an epic journey every time I listen to it.

Edit: Just found this on youtube.  He calls this a triple fugue, which I MAY disagree with, but it is a great introduction to hearing this work.  Not sure who the pianist is but it sounds great.  Never mind: pianist is Schiff.





Offline georgey

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #13 on: February 01, 2018, 04:12:49 PM »
Got a working list but this Mozart usually fits up in top 5 along w some Shosty,  Kapustin, and few others


Fantastic Mozart!  I never heard this before.  I remember hearing a bunch of preludes that he wrote (for string trio??) as a kid that he combined with Bach fugues.  Thanks for sharing this!


I might as well add the Mendelssohn 6 prelude and fugues op. 35 here:


Offline georgey

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #14 on: February 01, 2018, 11:25:31 PM »
I can't deal with the Beethoven String Quartet fugues -- especially the Große Fugue, just makes me angry.  To a lesser extent the one from Op. 131.  However, from Op. 110 is more my speed, although I can only just hack through it not very well.


Grosse fugue: Not sure if hearing this on piano 4 hands will make this any better.  You probably already know about this.  By memory may be off, but I think Beethoven's publisher had him remove this as a movement from another quartet.  It may have been Beethoven's idea to make a 4 hands version to try to get more $, or maybe it was the publishers idea.  Not sure.  Anyway, this is Beethoven's transcription in case you were not aware.  






Offline j_tour

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #15 on: February 02, 2018, 12:48:09 AM »
The C# minor fugue (may be my favorite in entire WTC) has harmony that is very appealing to me and the 3 sections combine the 3 themes in amazing ways.  It is actually not a triple fugue though since it does not have 3 formal expositions.

That's very good information, so thanks.  Yes, this one is definitely towards the top of things to regularly play through and study.

Also, thanks to the above for the Mozart 4-hands fugue -- I didn't know about that, just the Mozart Prelude+Fugue in C major (I forgot the K. number), but that's much smaller in scale, of course.

And the Mendelssohn Preludes and Fugues Op. 35 I found a copy of -- I'll look forward to reading through those sometime.

Yeah, I think my problem with the Grosse Fuge was just reading it in a 2-hand reduction, although of course I'd heard it before, and thinking "jesus christ this is music to open your veins to, plus it's just plain very strange."  Put me in a mood to do something drastic, like clean my apartment or something. 

I prefer the Op. 131, although maybe it isn't as grand, serious, "great."

Anyway, thanks to above for the excellent recommendations.  I've got to still try to memorize the 9th fugue from Ars Fuga -- about halfway memorized, through bar 60 or so (the main subject in F), but it's an effort to keep it all in the ear beginning to end.

Definitely not a "great, serious fugue," but it's fun and if I need something to play at a party or something people probably like that. 
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline beethovenfan01

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #16 on: February 02, 2018, 10:31:59 PM »
Grosse fugue: Not sure if hearing this on piano 4 hands will make this any better.  You probably already know about this.  By memory may be off, but I think Beethoven's publisher had him remove this as a movement from another quartet.  It may have been Beethoven's idea to make a 4 hands version to try to get more $, or maybe it was the publishers idea.  Not sure.  Anyway, this is Beethoven's transcription in case you were not aware.  







Jeez. Next time asks me to do a duet with them I'll suggest this ...  :o
Practicing:
Bach Chromatic Fantasie and Fugue
Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 1
Shostakovich Preludes Op. 34
Scriabin Etude Op. 2 No. 1
Liszt Fantasie and Fugue on BACH

Offline alexjr1543

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 10:32:39 AM »
I don't like to pick favourites with music, but two fugues I really like that I can currently think of are the preludes of Bach's English Suites #2 (A minor) and #6 (D minor).

Offline brogers70

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 10:43:47 PM »

E major, also from WTCI - the prelude is not a fugue - sorry! Or you mean the fugue, not the prelude. The fugue is great.


I'm guessing he meant the Eb Major Prelude, which does include a double fugue built into the prelude itself.

Offline georgey

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #19 on: February 18, 2018, 11:08:48 PM »
I'm guessing he meant the Eb Major Prelude, which does include a double fugue built into the prelude itself.

This is a magnificent prelude, one of the greatest in the entire WTC 1 and 2. This prelude is certainly fugue-like and I would even say "double-fugue-like".  But I would not call this a fugue.  Look at the 2nd subject.  There is not a formal exposition here.  The first subject is extremely short and is not strictly repeated in each of the 4 voices like you would see in a fugue: tonic-dominant (or subdominant)-tonic-dominant (or subdominant).  Do you have a written source that you can give where someone (an expert) says this is a fugue or double fugue?

Edit:  I actually see a much stronger case being made to call the A major prelude in Book 1 a fugue as mentioned earlier in this thread.  Everything I say here is just my opinion, of course.

EDIT2:
From Wikipedia – using the definition from the Middle Ages and Renaissance I can see the E-flat prelude being called a fuga perhaps.  I was referring to fugue as it was formally developed at the time of Bach.

Middle Ages and Renaissance

The term fuga was used as far back as the Middle Ages, but was initially used to refer to any kind of imitative counterpoint, including canons, which are now thought of as distinct from fugues.   Prior to the 16th century, fugue was originally a genre.  It was not until the 16th century that fugal technique as it is understood today began to be seen in pieces, both instrumental and vocal. Fugal writing is found in works such as fantasias, ricercares and canzonas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugue



Offline georgey

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #20 on: February 19, 2018, 01:56:20 AM »
Follow up to prior post with edits:

Not to say that there are not some unusual fugues written by Bach.  I just received a few days ago my new Henle Urtext editions of WTC 1 and 2.  These are nice!  I threw away my old Schirmer editions that I have not looked at for years.  

Example: Look at the C# major fugue in Book 2.  The subject comes in the Tonic, the Dominant* answer is a tonal answer that starts before the subject finishes (i.e., it starts with a stretto to the first voice).  Then the 3rd voice comes in the Tonic in stretto to the first 2 voices, this time in inversion.  An unusual exposition compared to most of the other fugues in the WTC.  But this is a strict fugue as defined in the time of Bach from my way of thinking.  If you want to see some really crazy expositions, look at the art of the fugue.  Again all just IMO.  

*-Edit: dominant tonal answer when looking at only the 1st 4 notes of subject.  The tonal answer ends on a C for the 4th note, resulting in a subdominant continuation of the subject (B-natural).  This is unusual - not sure how else to describe this.

Offline j_tour

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #21 on: February 19, 2018, 11:11:59 AM »
I'm guessing he meant the Eb Major Prelude, which does include a double fugue built into the prelude itself.

Well, no, that was all taken care of above.  Of course I don't mean the WTCI prelude in E major.

However, everybody's on board with me and everybody else that the Eb maj prelude from WTCI is a real champ.  I like the fugue proper from the same book, same key, better, but I think those two belong together.  Just haven't had a chance to do more than read both them a half-dozen times or so.

I don't like to pick favourites with music, but two fugues I really like that I can currently think of are the preludes of Bach's English Suites #2 (A minor) and #6 (D minor).

Heh.  I was just looking at András Schiff in concert do the A minor Engl. Ste.  The Prelude bothers me mainly because it's so damned long -- I'd rather spend the time on the Em Toccata (not from the Partita, but the stand-alone toccata) than invest so much time on the Am prelude.  Marvelous things throughout that suite.

Speaking of "sort-of" fugues, like the Amaj Prelude WTCI, any thoughts on the Gigue from the Em Partita?  That's my last bugbear to finishing the whole Partita, it's kind of tricky to keep the rhythm correct and light-hearted throughout.

Not a fugue, I don't think, but very much a "sort-of-fugue," is probably a fair statement.

///////////

I see the OP mentioned, but it bears repeating that the Dm Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue is one hell of a fun, odd fugue.  One of these days it might sink in to my memory, of course together with the "fantasia" part -- fortunately I think you can always just improvise a little bit in that part if you have a brain stroke or something.  The fugue shouldn't be tampered with, though, IMHO.

Also, maybe a proto-fugue, the ricerare in Cm from the "Musical Offering" is a treat -- a little miniature jewel.

Surprised there isn't more love for the Schumann "Four Fugues" -- maybe a little intricate and mannered, but I think they're a lot of fun, even if I don't have them in memory or at a proper tempo yet.
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline brogers70

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #22 on: February 19, 2018, 08:15:38 PM »
This is a magnificent prelude, one of the greatest in the entire WTC 1 and 2. This prelude is certainly fugue-like and I would even say "double-fugue-like".  But I would not call this a fugue.  Look at the 2nd subject.  There is not a formal exposition here.  The first subject is extremely short and is not strictly repeated in each of the 4 voices like you would see in a fugue: tonic-dominant (or subdominant)-tonic-dominant (or subdominant).  Do you have a written source that you can give where someone (an expert) says this is a fugue or double fugue?

Willard Palmer, the editor for my edition of WTC says "The prelude is itself a complete prelude and fugue."

We've got Philip Goeth, saying "The prelude in Eb major is special in the sense that it hosts a fugue itself, with a more complex architecture than many of the (“actual”) fugues of the WTC. The pair in Eb major thus consists of two fugues, namely a highly sophisticated double fugue within the prelude, which is followed by a jubilant and rather straight forward fugue as the second piece of the pair. "  http://www.bachwelltemperedclavier.org/pf-eb-major.html

Angela Hewitt describes the Eb prelude "It is in three parts: a preamble which improvises around a pattern of semiquavers; a chorale-like fugato introducing a subject that rises in fourths; and a double fugue combining these two musical ideas." (From the liner notes of her recording of WTC I).

Or Siglind Bruhn "The third segment of the prelude (from bar 25 onward), and by far its largest, is also polyphonic. It begins with two contrapuntal voices and, as a quick glance through the remainder of the piece reveals, works with this material in many different ways. As there are several definite cadences in related keys and new presentations of the material after these cadences, this segment within the Eb major prelude must be called a "fugue"." http://www-personal.umich.edu/~siglind/wtc-i-07.htm

Not sure how many of those folks you'd consider experts, but at least it's clear that it's not totally idiosyncratic to claim that the Eb Prelude includes a double fugue.

Offline georgey

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #23 on: February 19, 2018, 08:23:50 PM »
Willard Palmer, the editor for my edition of WTC says "The prelude is itself a complete prelude and fugue."

We've got Philip Goeth, saying "The prelude in Eb major is special in the sense that it hosts a fugue itself, with a more complex architecture than many of the (“actual”) fugues of the WTC. The pair in Eb major thus consists of two fugues, namely a highly sophisticated double fugue within the prelude, which is followed by a jubilant and rather straight forward fugue as the second piece of the pair. "  http://www.bachwelltemperedclavier.org/pf-eb-major.html

Angela Hewitt describes the Eb prelude "It is in three parts: a preamble which improvises around a pattern of semiquavers; a chorale-like fugato introducing a subject that rises in fourths; and a double fugue combining these two musical ideas." (From the liner notes of her recording of WTC I).

Or Siglind Bruhn "The third segment of the prelude (from bar 25 onward), and by far its largest, is also polyphonic. It begins with two contrapuntal voices and, as a quick glance through the remainder of the piece reveals, works with this material in many different ways. As there are several definite cadences in related keys and new presentations of the material after these cadences, this segment within the Eb major prelude must be called a "fugue"." http://www-personal.umich.edu/~siglind/wtc-i-07.htm

Not sure how many of those folks you'd consider experts, but at least it's clear that it's not totally idiosyncratic to claim that the Eb Prelude includes a double fugue.

Wow!  There are differences of opinion here from mine.  I view the 2nd subject to be like a counter subject since there is definitely not a second formal exposition.  I still stand by my opinion.  I will assume your sources were referring to the definition of a fugue (fuga) that I provided from Wikipedia that was used in the Renaissance.  Thanks for sharing this!!

Edit:  Maybe Bach had the following in mind when he wrote this:

For the prelude: "Out of respect for the great masters of the past, I shall now write a monumental fuga in the "old style".  For the fugue: "Now I shall write a happy little fuga in the "new style".   ;)




Offline ahinton

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #24 on: February 20, 2018, 05:33:52 AM »
I've included several of them in my own works. However, when in 1996 I embarked on the closing section of my Szymanowski-Etiud for 18 wind instruments, I opened it with what is effectively a nine voice simultaneous triple fugue (or fugal exposition, at least), in which the entries are first subject, second subject, third subject, first subject, &c. and, when I got to the end of those increasingly thorny pages, I resolved never to write a fugue again! So far, I've managed to adhere to that (which is maybe just as well)...

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Offline alexjr1543

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #25 on: March 17, 2018, 08:43:22 AM »
Speaking of "sort-of" fugues, like the Amaj Prelude WTCI, any thoughts on the Gigue from the Em Partita?  That's my last bugbear to finishing the whole Partita, it's kind of tricky to keep the rhythm correct and light-hearted throughout.

Sorry for the late reply, but out of curiosity, what rhythm do you play it at? I personally play it in triple metre, despite the sheet music, which is in duple metre, because, after all, it is a gigue. (If you don't know what I mean, I play the rhythm like this:
(this is not me playing).) I personally think it sounds much better that way and somehow have much less trouble expressing what I want.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #26 on: March 17, 2018, 08:25:22 PM »
I am generally not a huge fan of Reger, but the fugue from his Telemann Variations has always left me speechless.

From the concerto world, there is one contained within D'albert's 2nd piano concerto and it is immense.

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Offline ahinton

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #27 on: March 18, 2018, 09:17:21 AM »
I am generally not a huge fan of Reger, but the fugue from his Telemann Variations has always left me speechless.

From the concerto world, there is one contained within D'albert's 2nd piano concerto and it is immense.
Two splendid examples indeed - and the one from the Reger Bach Variations has a lot going for it as well.

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Offline pianoville

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #28 on: March 18, 2018, 03:31:36 PM »
The fugue from Liszt's Scherzo and March is pretty awesome, but my vote goes to the fugue from op. 110.
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Offline j_tour

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #29 on: April 02, 2018, 02:59:34 PM »
Sorry for the late reply, but out of curiosity, what rhythm do you play it at? I personally play it in triple metre, despite the sheet music, which is in duple metre, because, after all, it is a gigue. (If you don't know what I mean, I play the rhythm like this:
(this is not me playing).) I personally think it sounds much better that way and somehow have much less trouble expressing what I want.

Thanks for that.  Yeah, I've been working a straight job for about a month so I had to actually go to the keyboard to check.

Yeah, for me it's in three -- I suppose the first eighth-note of the subject gets "demoted" to a pickup note done that way, but that's the only way I've ever conceived of the piece.

I was having an interesting discussion with a composer somewhere else about how to analyze what he views as a countersubject coming immediately after the main motif, virtually identically intervals and rhythms.

I cant see it that way -- it's just one subject, about two bars long, and then by mm7-8, the exposition is completed by the entry in the bass.

But, anyway, it doesn't really matter so much -- it's "fugue-like," even if not a model fugue. 

At least for the level of analysis I need to play it coherently.
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Offline visitor

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Nestor Nyzhankivskyi - Prélude et fugue Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #30 on: April 03, 2018, 12:24:01 PM »
meant to come back and reply w this a while back since my early reply was a collaborative work, wanted to throw a solo or two up as well.
prelude is jiggy, but this is a fugue post per op, starts at 2:23
love his sound, others works of his high recommended listening!

Offline visitor

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #31 on: June 12, 2018, 01:34:58 PM »
keeps climbing my fugue chart higher and higher

Offline georgey

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #32 on: June 13, 2018, 01:59:30 AM »
keeps climbing my fugue chart higher and higher


Agreed.  Great fuga!  Love the ending.

Already mentioned, but here is a link:

BRAHMS Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel, Op. 24: Fuga


Also love the ending!  One h*ck of a pedal point starting 3:19 then look out!

Offline ahinton

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Re: Favorite Fugue?
«Reply #33 on: June 13, 2018, 10:38:07 AM »
keeps climbing my fugue chart higher and higher
Like the slightly later piano sonata by his slightly older compatriot Elliott Carter (which also has a fugato passage), this excellent work sounds as though written by a truly accomplished pianist, yet neither Barber nor Carter were accomplished pianists; thee are moments in the extract here that almost make me wonder whether the composer had been listening to some Sorabji!...

Speaking of Sorabji, who wrote many fugues in his works, one notable one (if not necessarily a "favourite" per se) is the one that closes the finale of his Organ Symphony No. 2 which comprises a Prelude, an Adagio, a Toccata and then this fugue, which is a triple one that plays for a little over two hours! (an immensely long one even by Sorabji's standards); the symphony has yet to be recorded commercially but has received several performances at the hands of Kevin Bowyer, who had made a splendid critical typeset edition of its ms.

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Alistair
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