CAUTION! Think twice before you start once of these pieces... >>

[SteinwayTony]

I am fully aware that this post could become highly controversial.  I'm ready for that and I understand it completely.

That said, let me begin.  I find it unbelievably frustrating when it seems that people just aren't willing to expand their horizons and play just a few pieces that haven't been beat up and butchered repeatedly over the past 300 or more years.  This is unfair to the brilliant composers who have put their heart and soul into creating beautiful music, just as well-known composers like Chopin and Beethoven have, and perhaps more importantly, it hurts today's composers who know that 97% of all pianists stick to the same old routine repertory.  They are driven to think, "I have no chance at getting my music heard or played.  What's the use?"  This thought drives me crazy.  Imagine all the potentially great new music we could have, but can't have because the minds in which they dwell are too self-conscious and scared of failure to persist! 

Over the past twenty minutes, I have created a list of what I deem to be "overplayed" works.  Please mind the disclaimer, though: don't even begin to think that I am criticizing the works themselves, as I (in most cases) have the utmost respect for them; in fact, several of the pieces have been played by these very hands. 

So, the next time you're getting ready to pick out a new piece, think of how you could be affecting the piano scene.  If you're reluctant to play dissonant, more recent music such as Shostakovich or Scriabin, you have plenty of options still: it is thought that Clementi would have the title of the greatest sonata composer were it not for Beethoven.  There is also Hummel and Handel and Byrd (a favorite of Gould's).

Thanks for your consideration, and here's what I came up with:

{P.S. -- Feel free to add!}

----------------------------------------

SOLO PIANO

----J.S. Bach

Prelude No. 1 from WTC Book I

----L.V. Beethoven

Bagatelle No. 25 in Am WoO 59 "Fur Elise" (sucks to be the other Bagatelles)
Sonata Op. 13 in Cm "Pathetique"
Sonata Op. 27 No. 2 in C#m "Moonlight"
Sonata Op. 53 in C "Waldstein"
Sonata Op. 57 in Fm "Appassionata"
Sonata Op. 106 in Bb "Hammerklavier" (not overplayed but often done terribly)
Sonata Op. 111 in Cm (not overplayed but often done terribly)

----J. Brahms

Rhapsody Op. 79 No. 2 in Gm
Waltz Op. 39 No. 15 in Ab

----F. Chopin

Ballade No. 1 in Gm Op. 23
Ballade No. 4 in Fm Op. 52
Etude Op. 10 No. 4 in C#m
Etude Op. 10 No. 12 in Cm "Revolutionary"
Etude Op. 25 No. 1 in Ab "Aeolian Harp"
Etude Op. 25 No. 6 in G#m
Etude Op. 25 No. 11 in Am "Winter Wind"
Fantasie-Impromptu Op. 66 in C#m
Nocturne Op. 9 No. 2 in Eb
Nocturne Op. 48 No. 1 in Cm
Nocturne Op. 72 No. 1 in Em
Nocturne Op. posth in C#m
Prelude Op. 28 No. 4 in Em
Prelude Op. 28 No. 6 in Bm
Prelude Op. 28 No. 15 in Db "Raindrop"
Prelude Op. 28 No. 20 in Cm
Polonaise Op. 40 No. 1 in A "Military"
Polonaise Op. 53 in Ab "Heroic"
Scherzo No. 3 in C#m Op. 39
Sonata No. 2 in Bbm Op. 35 "Funeral March" (mvts. 1 & 3)
Waltz Op. 64 No. 1 in Db "Minute"

----F. Liszt

Concert Etude No. 3 "Un Sospiro"
Etude d'Execution Transcendente No. 4 in Dm "Mazeppa"
Etude d'Execution Transcendente No. 11 in Db "Harmonies du Soir"
Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 in C#m
Hungarian Rhapsody No. 15 in Am "Rakoczy"
Grande Etude de Paganini No. 3 in G#m "La Campanella"
Mephisto Waltz No. 1
Liebestraume No. 3

----F. Mendelssohn

Rondo Capriccioso in E, Op. 14

----M. Moszkowski

Etincelles (doubtless we have Horowitz to thank)

----W.A. Mozart

Sonata in Am K.331
Sonata in C K.545
Sonata in D K.576
Variations on "Ah, vous dirai-je, Maman" K.265

----S. Rachmaninoff

Prelude Op. 3 No. 2 in C#m
Prelude Op. 23 No. 5 in Gm
Prelude Op. 23 No. 7 in Cm
Prelude Op. 32 No. 5 in G

----F. Schubert

Fantasy D.760 in C "Wanderer"
Impromptu D.899 No. 2 in Eb
Impromptu D.899 No. 4 in Abm
Impromptu D.935 No. 2 in Ab
Moment Musical D.780 No. 3 in Fm
Sonata D.960 in Bb

----R. Schumann

Traumerei (from Kinderszenen, Op. 15)

{{}}

PIANO CONCERTO

----L.V. Beethoven
Piano Concerto No. 4 in G, Op. 58
Piano Concerto No. 5 in Eb, Op. 73 "Emperor"

----E. Grieg
Piano Concerto in Am, Op. 16

----F. Liszt
Totentanz / Danse Macabre

----W.A. Mozart
Piano Concerto No. 21 in C, K.467

----S. Prokofiev
Piano Concerto No. 3 in C, Op. 26

----S. Rachmaninoff
Piano Concerto No. 2 in Cm, Op. 18
Piano Concerto No. 3 in Dm, Op. 30

----R. Schumann
Piano Concerto in Am, Op. 54

----P. Tchaikovsky
Piano Concerto No. 1 in Bbm, Op. 23

----------------------------------------

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Double post... read below.

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

You are right in a sense. But is it any less unfair for people to neglect pieces like Fur Elise that composers like Beethoven have 'put their heart and soul into creating' as you say. I do believe that people should expand their horizons, but I believe all of these so-called 'overplayed' pieces are as deserving to be played in a concert as the more obscure pieces. (I know what you're talking about, though. I really wish Godowsky was performed more often)

So what if people have heard them 1000+ times? Stop to ask yourself why these pieces are performed so often. Even though many of the composers were irritated themselves when asked to play some of their well-known pieces, most of the time, people should just learn to appreciate these pieces for what they really are. True masterpieces.

[SteinwayTony]

You are right in a sense. But is it any less unfair for people to neglect pieces like Fur Elise that composers like Beethoven have 'put their heart and soul into creating' as you say. I do believe that people should expand their horizons, but I believe all of these so-called 'overplayed' pieces are as deserving to be played in a concert as the more obscure pieces. (I know what you're talking about, though. I really wish Godowsky was performed more often)

So what if people have heard them 1000+ times? Stop to ask yourself why these pieces are performed so often. Even though many of the composers were irritated themselves when asked to play some of their well-known pieces, most of the time, people should just learn to appreciate these pieces for what they really are. True masterpieces.

Occasionally there will be a masterpiece.

But Chopin Op. 9 No. 2 and Fur Elise...well, it's just to the point where I've heard it so, so, so, so very many times that I don't care for them anymore, even with the best performance, because they're such workhorses.  The Minute Waltz?  Life would go on without it. 

Who has the right to proclaim that any of these are better than, say, a Shostakovich Prelude & Fugue, or the Dreyshock concerto?  There is PREFERENCE...liking one piece better than another, and then there is MURDER...sending beautiful but sadly obscure pieces to the grave.  That's what gets to me. 

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Occasionally there will be a masterpiece.

But Chopin Op. 9 No. 2 and Fur Elise...well, it's just to the point where I've heard it so, so, so, so very many times that I don't care for them anymore, even with the best performance, because they're such workhorses.  The Minute Waltz?  Life would go on without it. 

True, but that could be said of any piece.

Who has the right to proclaim that any of these are better than, say, a Shostakovich Prelude & Fugue, or the Dreyshock concerto?  There is PREFERENCE...liking one piece better than another, and then there is MURDER...sending beautiful but sadly obscure pieces to the grave.  That's what gets to me. 

In this sense, I agree with you completely. Let's talk about Godowsky again, since I brought him up in my previous post. He has written some great music, a lot of which I enjoy more than Chopin, and it annoys me that Chopin always gets all the attention. However, the way the story goes, is that you have a bunch of these titanic composers, and the smaller 'obscure' ones struggle to be seen in their shadows. Think about it, who else was around composing music the same time as Shostakovich? Well, Shostakovich wrote some good music, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's revolutionarey, when you have other modern composers like Stravinsky getting all of the attention.

I don't know if anything I said made sense. I am extremely tired right now...

[dinosaurtales]

Well, here's where I get to agree with almost everybody.

Steinway T:  You are right - many many really cool pieces are just ignored.  When I started with my teacher, who adjudicates competitions frequently, I was working on a John Baptist Cramer sonata, and John Field sonata, and a S. S. Wesley piece.  She worked with me on them, sort of "rushing me" through them - (that's good - now put those away") sort of attitude, making it very clear that if I was to attend a master class or perform elsewhere that nobody would want to hear these things.  I had deliberatley picked them out because they WERE off the beaten path.  I am now working on (you are going to love this) Chopin's g minor ballade, Mozart K576, Chopin's nocturne Op 9no 2, and no 1, just finished up the Appassionata.

Now for the other side.  These things are "overplayed" becuase they are WAY COOL pieces!  I am just annoyed that anything even slightly obscure is downright ignored because it's not on competition lists. (that's my theory on why more obscure works are never played) by the time a recitalist works through all the damned competitions he's already got a large repertoire of the (largely) "overplayed" pieces.  Once he wins, he's on the tour!  What do you think he's going to play? 

So thank god for artists like Mark Andre Hamlin, who deliberately picks up on the one-offs and records them!

[will]

I find it unbelievably frustrating when it seems that people just aren't willing to expand their horizons and play just a few pieces that haven't been beat up and butchered repeatedly over the past 300 or more years. 

I mostly agree. But to a young musician these works may have just come into existence.  Young ears may find these works fresh and exciting. And the butchering continues...

[tocca]

I don't know about others, but i would never practise a piece for xxx hours that i didn't like beforehand. There are so much lovely music that i won't be able to play half of everything i want to play. Why should i practise pieces i don't like as much as theese?

The only reason i see is to please the public, and that's not nearly a good enough reason in my view.

That doesn't mean that i will only play Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin and so on. If i like a piece of a less well known composer i'll play it, but not otherwise.

Well, my 2cents...

[steinwayguy]

As Ludwig said, you know, there really is a reason for people "overplaying" the Hammerklavier and Opus 111. But, I mean really, ask yourself, who in God's name has the balls to play the Hammerklavier? Hardly anybody plays this piece. 111, yeah, but this piece is (IMO) arguably the greatest piano sonata every written, and the same could be said about the Hammerklavier. I just think it's ridiculous how someone could say something is "overplayed" if the quality of the piece is comparable with how many times it's overplayed. I'll agree with you, the Moonlight, Pathetique and Fur Elise are overplayed. I honestly dont' think these pieces are nearly as great and amazing as they are thought to be. Those are three pieces I wouldn't mind never hearing again for the rest of my life. But the Waldstein, Appassionata, Hammerklavier and 111? Seriously.

[dinosaurtales]

Well ok.  Fur Elise is really unfair.  If you remember being 9 or 10 years old........  and you wanted to play something "real" that wasn't kiddie music - that was pretty much it.  There are others, but EVERYBODY learns on this piece, so it's unfair to say it's overplayed.  It's almost too bad that ONLY kids play it. it's actually a nice piece that would probbly be a really effective encore done by a pro if he had the nerve!

[Rach3]

it's actually a nice piece that would probbly be a really effective encore done by a pro if he had the nerve!

Why do I find this funny?

Seriously, I'm pleased to observe that none of my audition pieces are on the 'overplayed' list! Yay! Though one of them probably should be - Chopin's nocturne op. 27/1, is (in my observations) quite often overplayed.

[anda]

i'd add mozart - piano concert a dur 488, prokofiev 1st - and i do believe the list is longer, but i don't remember anything else right now.

i agree with everything said above - if i want to play *this* work, i don't care how over/underplayed it is, and at the same time, i wish pianists would take the time to check for other wonderful underplayed works.

one more thing- personal experience: i have heard pathetique poorly played so many times (it's a hit in the school where i teach, seems like every 13 years old HAS to play it) that i got to the point where i absolutely hated this sonata. 6 month ago, my former teacher played it in a recital - and i said "i'll just leave the hall before he starts playing this". i didn't, and i was in for a big surprise - well played it was a wonderful work, i enjoyed every minute of it!

so, i guess the problem is not that they are overplayed, but rather that they are too often bad played.

imo

[anda]

see this too:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3720.0.html

[pianowelsh]

Really im surprised Your list is quite small. There are plenty more hacknied works out there! But I note you say 'Caution' not DO NOT play. Many of these works are kindof pianistic rites of passage most of them for good reason so it's not really going to change but I know what you mean for example 4 first years in college are playing the Pathetique this year. Some poor examiner will listen to (I don't wish to be unfair - but tell it how it is!) 4 student performances of the Pathetique, which perhaps in a couple of years will have matured significantly but like I said it kinda has to be done. It dosent get any better in the real virtuoso end either the number of postgrads doing The Liszt Bminor, Mussorgsky Pictures and Chopin sonata3 is quite beyond a joke but they are the sorts of works that students need to learn to develop technically and musically (there's time to find a voice later - but it's commonly agreed you have to get a good pile of the big works under your belt asap). Of course students like to play them too! but granted it dosent make for very exciting programmes - but could that be the fault of teachers and competition requirements as much as the students?!?!?

[richard w]

I think everything everybody has said so far is perfectly true. But let's not sit in front of our PCs griping about it, lets suggest some less-frequently heard but truly delightful works.

Here is the start of my list.


Berg, Sonata Op.1 (excellent post-romantic work)
Webern, Variations for Piano (for those who like serial music)
Tchaikovsky, Sonata in G (seldom heard, but to my mind very good. I very much enjoyed playing this work)
Ravel, anything you like
Debussy, Etudes, many of the less-heard Preludes




That is my very modest start, to get you thinking.



Richard.

[SteinwayTony]

Another potential problem to consider when one begins to learn such an "overplayed" piece is the concept that the pressure to develop a technically and musically flawless performance will be enormous.  Since everybody and his brother have played Fur Elise (as an example), nobody will think much if you work hard for a year and your wrong notes are still prominent.  They'll just brush you aside..."oh boy, another mediocre Fur Elise." 

Of course, that was quite an elementary example.  But let's move onto concertos.  I believe that playing a well-known concerto for a competition or an audition is essentially suicide.  Who hasn't played (or tried) Tchaikovsky?  And obviously there are a few more notes in Tchaikovsky than Fur Elise...

[SteinwayTony]

I think everything everybody has said so far is perfectly true. But let's not sit in front of our PCs griping about it, lets suggest some less-frequently heard but truly delightful works.

Here is the start of my list.


Berg, Sonata Op.1 (excellent post-romantic work)
Webern, Variations for Piano (for those who like serial music)
Tchaikovsky, Sonata in G (seldom heard, but to my mind very good. I very much enjoyed playing this work)
Ravel, anything you like
Debussy, Etudes, many of the less-heard Preludes




That is my very modest start, to get you thinking.



Richard.

John Field's Nocturnes and Sonatas would go up there, I think, and Cesar Franck's piano music.  MacDowell's music is underplayed, as is Anton Rubinstein's (some people know the Melody in F, but his Pieces of Different Nations is impressive as well).

[Troldhaugen]

Here's my list of less-frequently played works, yet very beautiful/exciting.

Balakirev - Sonata, Reverie...etc
Cui - pretty much everything
Debussy - many of his short works (like Danse....etc)
Liapunov - his Transcendental Etudes
Ravel - Jeux d'eau
Stravinsky - The Firebird/Petrushka

These are just the pieces I could come up with off top of my head.

[pianowelsh]

Bax, Phespigi, Dukas, and Franck all need more air time. What about Arensky Liadov, Tcherepinn, Medtner, Lyapunov, Bowen, and indeed a whole army of Italian pianist composers of the 20th C who are NEVER played. Works by Moskovsky are often glossed over because of his etudes Hummel, Carl Maria von Weber, Clara Schumann, John Ireland, Alkan.... the list really is endless! - many we have probably never even heard of  - Out of interest how many of you know Eshpay (Russian) who wrote a blistering Toccata?

[hodi]

the mendelssohn rondo isn't overplayed, it's just very well known
same about the beethoven concertos, how many people u know can play it really good?

this list is so long, let's just stop playing the piano because everyone has already played the piece we want to study..

[Awakening]

the mendelssohn rondo isn't overplayed, it's just very well known
same about the beethoven concertos, how many people u know can play it really good?

this list is so long, let's just stop playing the piano because everyone has already played the piece we want to study..

I'm more in agreement with what you said, rather than what the thread-starter said.  Yes, there are overplayed pieces.  But so what?  If you like a piece, play it.  If not, then don't.  Who cares how many times the piece has been played in the past?  The only person it should matter to, ultimately, is yourself.  Therefore, if you're content playing Fur Elise, then what does it matter?  The way I see it, it's like telling people to think twice before they listen to The Beatles or The Rolling Stones.  Yes, it's important to branch out, but you can't tell people not to play something just because it's popular.  Things are popular for a reason. 

[SteinwayTony]

I'm more in agreement with what you said, rather than what the thread-starter said.  Yes, there are overplayed pieces.  But so what?  If you like a piece, play it.  If not, then don't.  Who cares how many times the piece has been played in the past?  The only person it should matter to, ultimately, is yourself.  Therefore, if you're content playing Fur Elise, then what does it matter?  The way I see it, it's like telling people to think twice before they listen to The Beatles or The Rolling Stones.  Yes, it's important to branch out, but you can't tell people not to play something just because it's popular.  Things are popular for a reason. 

If third-party perspective weren't a factor to you, well, first of all, nobody would prefer to be around you.  And second of all, if third-party perspective didn't matter to anyone, this forum wouldn't exist.

[Awakening]

If third-party perspective weren't a factor to you, well, first of all, nobody would prefer to be around you.  And second of all, if third-party perspective didn't matter to anyone, this forum wouldn't exist.

You're so clever.  Do you want a medal?  It's stupid to tell people what to play.  Especially when you compiled the list of pieces not to play yourself.  Pretty egotistical. 

[SteinwayTony]

You need to calm down and re-read the original post in its entirety, specifically the disclaimer.

[Awakening]

You need to calm down and re-read the original post in its entirety, specifically the disclaimer.

What you say makes some level of sense, but I still resort back to the idea that all famous works are famous for a reason.  That reason is usually because of musical superiority/popularity among musicians and listeners, strong representation of a style or period, educational use for honing technique, or all of the above.  You speak of "today's composers" feeling discouraged because people are only playing classical.  Honestly, I don't think I would much enjoy playing new piano music very much.  Sure, there are select works from film scores, etc that are interesting and unique, but in general, I feel that the old masters have done it best, and that the piano has been around so long that it's naive to think you can come up with something better than Chopin, Beethoven or Mozart.  Not that there's anything wrong with composition--I'm very interested in it myself, but there is no place for it in today's culture as a means of attaining fame or fortune, because everything good has been done before.  The baroque, classical and romantic composers thoroughly explored all musical territory imagineable.  Music is art, but it is much less subjective, thanks to something called music theory.  Very few people want to play something that sounds dissonant or too far "out there," and with good reason.  Most pianists still consider themselves students, constantly furthering their musical education.  They do this through playing a variety of styles of music that has been written by incredible geniuses from a hundred, two hundred, three hundred+ years ago...the music of today is not classical, or even neo-classical.  Today's musical geniuses may be writing rock, metal, hip-hop--genres that have much less of an association with piano than classical.  Jazz musicians are still receiving credit for innovative and interesting piano music, but that is in a genre of its own.  It doesn't make much sense to me for you to tell people not to play the works that they love--the pieces that have stood the test of time and are known to help technique, musical expression, and create a strong emotional force that resonates with both the musician and the listener. 

[SteinwayTony]

You speak of "today's composers" feeling discouraged because people are only playing classical.  Honestly, I don't think I would much enjoy playing new piano music very much.  Sure, there are select works from film scores, etc that are interesting and unique, but in general, I feel that the old masters have done it best, and that the piano has been around so long that it's naive to think you can come up with something better than Chopin, Beethoven or Mozart. 

Your point of view is myopic and horribly pessimistic.  Do not expect to get very far with that attitude.  Music is perpetually evolving...it didn't just stop after one particular guy kicked the bucket.  Learn all kinds of music -- expand your horizons and keep an open mind, and I guarantee that doing this will make Chopin and Beethoven all the more rewarding. 

[RappinPhil]

I find it funny, SteinwayTony,  when you place yourself on some sort of virtuosic pedastool posting a bombastic lament when you mention several pieces you're studying that are on the list. I'd also be curious as to how many of these pieces you already know? Because I should think someone who practices 1/3 of a day to eventually stumble across a few.

[dinosaurtales]

Well, SteinwayTony, looks like your prediction of controversy has come true!

[e60m5]

 

The vast majority of that list is in my repertoire.

On a personal note, I don't see how you can deem Liszt's Totentanz as overplayed, yet leave Beethoven's 3rd Concerto off the list.

[Awakening]

Your point of view is myopic and horribly pessimistic.  Do not expect to get very far with that attitude.  Music is perpetually evolving...it didn't just stop after one particular guy kicked the bucket.  Learn all kinds of music -- expand your horizons and keep an open mind, and I guarantee that doing this will make Chopin and Beethoven all the more rewarding. 

Yes, I'm aware that it's evolving.  I do keep an open mind.  My opinion still stays the same, though.  I honestly don't think there will be anything "better" than the music that has been written by aforementioned composers, in the genre of "classical" music.  I personally believe classical to be the pinnacle of piano music, and therefore, I really don't want to learn anything by modern-day composers.  I'd rather focus on the history of music and learn pieces that helped shape and influence basically all popular music that we hear today.  I can understand someone wanting to expand their horizons if they had an incredibly extensive repertoire of classical works that they had studied, but this is not the case with most pianists, and never will be the case, because there is simply so much classical out there.  I'm not going to restate my entire argument.  It's more of an opinion than an argument anyway.  I guess you could say that about anything, though.

[musicsdarkangel]

SteinwayTony,

I almost whole-heartedly agree with you.

I believe that these pieces should be played, but the more obscure pieces definitely deserve more play time.

Although this piece is not obscure, I had not even heard Franck's Variations SYmphoniques until this year (and I'm 19). 

This angers me, and I think that there are many other pieces out there that are underplayed.

I also heard a Joseph Suk piano trio that was excellent, and yet no one ever plays it.

[Sketchee]

Okay I thought twice.  Now I'm off to place Un Sospiro.  Thanks for the heads up...

[SteinwayTony]

I find it funny, SteinwayTony,  when you place yourself on some sort of virtuosic pedastool posting a bombastic lament when you mention several pieces you're studying that are on the list. I'd also be curious as to how many of these pieces you already know? Because I should think someone who practices 1/3 of a day to eventually stumble across a few.

What are you saying? 

I'm not degrading anything.  I said quite clearly that I've played several pieces that are on the list. 

"Somewho practices 1/3 of a day..." are you confusing me with someone else?  I never said anything about how much I practice... 

[RappinPhil]

Ugh, I'm sorry. I confused you with SteinwayGuy.

And on the second thought, I believe I overreacted to what you said. What I meant was this: there's nothing wrong with learning the above pieces listed, but for god's sake, only if you're ready for it. There are far too many people who play Fur Elise that should still be doing primer books. The same goes for Moonlight Sonata, and all the other beautiful, but often mangled, pieces.

Also, I think it's a good idea to alternate between the lesser known and more known pieces. I'm currently practicing "Majesty of the Deep," a grandiose, thundering piece by George F. Hamer. I've never heard anyone mention it, so I think it's fairly obscure. After that though, my teacher suggested Chopin's "Military Polonaise," to which I jumped at. So it's a system like this that I think strikes a fair balance on what you said.

Anyways, hope this clears things up. 

[Grzegorz]

Well, I may agree that these pieces are overplayed BUT I don't think it's something bad. In fact, if they weren't I wouldn't be playing the piano now 2 years ago I wouldn't imagine I'd play but accidentally I heard someone playing the Hungarian Rhapsody No.2. I was in heaven... I started to look for some more music of this kind, heard almost all works on your list, where the last was Liebestraume III and I said I want to play it!
I don't think that if I heard at this time some "not-overplayed" pieces it would interest me.... And the rhapsody is for now my main aim.

Regards,
Greg

[hodi]

Sonata Op. 57 in Fm "Appassionata"
Etude d'Execution Transcendente No. 4 in Dm "Mazeppa"
Mephisto Waltz No. 1
Rondo Capriccioso in E, Op. 14

those pieces are really not overplayed, but difficult and very well known, i don't know many pianists (not professional ones) who play them really good.

[SteinwayTony]

those pieces are really not overplayed, but difficult and very well known, i don't know many pianists (not professional ones) who play them really good.

All of the pieces you listed are rites of passage for high school or college level pianists with the possible exception of the Rondo, which is overdone because it is one of those pieces that sounds much more difficult than it actually is (and has a gorgeous Andante).

There is a professor at my school who has every one of his students study Mazeppa.  I disagree with having every student work on a one (the same) piece.  This is how the overplayed repertory come to be.  Czerny, Hanon, et al. are exceptions because they are technical studies that have no intention of being played publicly (if the pianist doesn't want to put his audience to sleep), but Mazeppa is, plain and simple, an etude of virtuosity and showmanship.

[rohansahai]

I feel that popularity of pieces goes in "generations". For instance, there was a time when the 6th rhapsody by liszt was very frequently played and then kept aside for the same reason that it was too well known(and now its seldom heard). So was the revolutionary etude about 10-15 yrs back (and now its been overtaken by the winter winds and c# minor)...........the present generation will try and avoid pieces like the 2nd rhapsody and after say 15 years.......it would go to the same category as the 6th (supposedly well known but NOT that frequently played recently).

[Radix]

If every pianist would put just one of Medtner's pieces in his / her repertoire, the would would be just a little bit better. ^_^

[Hamfast]

if you play well-known pieces you have to strut to perfection. it's very difficult.

[ail]

Well ok.  Fur Elise is really unfair.  If you remember being 9 or 10 years old........  and you wanted to play something "real" that wasn't kiddie music - that was pretty much it.  There are others, but EVERYBODY learns on this piece, so it's unfair to say it's overplayed.  It's almost too bad that ONLY kids play it. it's actually a nice piece that would probbly be a really effective encore done by a pro if he had the nerve!

I did hear it as an encore last year by a pro. I think it was at the Feast of Music in Lisbon, and the commenters on the radio were in awe that she (I don't recall the pianist, sorry) had played Fur Elise as an encore. They said: "we hear this often, but very seldom with this kind of quality".

Ail

[ail]

Just wanted your opinion on this. Is Chopin's waltz Op.64 no2 overplayed or not? It was not on the list, and is one of my favourites. On the contrary, I can't stand Op.64 no1 since it was used in a commercial for a toilet-washing cream. I simply refuse to learn it, but that's because I don't like it anymore.

On the other hand, many of those overplayed pieces are pieces that I WANT to play some day because I do love them.

Finally, to close the circle, one that I could advise people to play is the piano transcription of Ketelbey's In a Persian Market. But I'm partial in this, because I've loved the original orchestra version for so long.

Ail

[viking]

HAH!  You've listed about 25 pieces by chopin.  Maybe nobody should play chopin because it's "overplayed".  I think that list is junk.  Sure, maybe some pieces like moonlight sonata or fur elise, but why cant someone play Chopin 1st or 4th ballade?  And Harmonies du Soir?  I never knew that was overplayed...

Sam

[pianodude90]

Well, don't you think the composer would have been proud if their music was played everwhere, all the time? If i was a composer, i would be proud of it, even if they are poorly played!
And why do you waste time on putting pieces that are overplayed, and not use your time to tell people what to play instead ? And the pieces you are putting up, are beautiful pieces, and if you're in a concert, it is nice to hear pieces you know well too, isn't it? People is expecting "overplayed" music, even in concerts, and they are fine pieces to learn playing the piano.

Putting up nearly 1/10 of Chopin's works are riddiculous! Chopin's music can't be overplayed, and especially not the ballades! They are Immortal.

Beside, i bet an amateur pianist, who don't know the pianolitterature that well, rather would pick a popular piece than a less popular piece, because it's the first pieces you hear of.

They are not overplayed, it's just an important part of the pianolitterature, and the more a piece are played, the more good versions is to find, but also more bad versions is it to find. I counted, and i have learned about 15 of them. And you shuold be through the standard pieces before moving on to the less known repertoary. That's just an unwritten rule.

[mike_lang]

Overplayed or not, these pieces must be learned.  More importantly, however, the pieces are not learned a certain way for good on the first attempt - they will continue to develop over the course of the pianist's life.  This is why, for example, it is good to learn the late Beethoven sonatas early in life so that they can mature. 

This having been said, it is important to have a good teacher with a thorough understanding of these masterpieces who will give proper and adequate guidance to the pupil's study.

Best,

ML

[dan101]

Certain compositions are popular for a reason. If a work has withstood the test of time, it lends itself to fresh interpretation and will always have an audience.

[jpowell]

I think everything everybody has said so far is perfectly true. But let's not sit in front of our PCs griping about it, lets suggest some less-frequently heard but truly delightful works.

Here is the start of my list.


Berg, Sonata Op.1 (excellent post-romantic work)
Webern, Variations for Piano (for those who like serial music)
Tchaikovsky, Sonata in G (seldom heard, but to my mind very good. I very much enjoyed playing this work)
Ravel, anything you like
Debussy, Etudes, many of the less-heard Preludes

Similarly, I was once surprised to find out how much piano music was written (but almost never played now) by very popular composers such as:
Sibelius
Rossini
Dvorak
Smetana
Tchaikovsky (how often are his solo pieces programmed?)

all of whom wrote a substantial amount of high quality solo pieces.

After all, I really don't think even an entire programme featuring the music of all these composers (highly popular in the opera house or orchestral scene) would conceivably "put off" the usual concert-going public. It's probably just that many performers are not really very curious.

[ahinton]

Similarly, I was once surprised to find out how much piano music was written (but almost never played now) by very popular composers such as:
Sibelius
Rossini
Dvorak
Smetana
Tchaikovsky (how often are his solo pieces programmed?)

all of whom wrote a substantial amount of high quality solo pieces.

After all, I really don't think even an entire programme featuring the music of all these composers (highly popular in the opera house or orchestral scene) would conceivably "put off" the usual concert-going public. It's probably just that many performers are not really very curious.

Very much agreed! OK, most of these composers' piano works tend to be miniatures, but one has only to look at pieces such as Tchaikovsky's The Seasons and Smetana's Polkas and other works to realise that these are really serious contenders in the field of piano music, albeit not by composers best known for their contributions to keyboard repertoire. Likewise, nothing Sibelius ever wrote for the piano is likely to risk knocking his last four symphonies, The Oceanides, Tapiola, etc. off their respective perches, but one nevertheless ignores the best of his piano music at one's peril, as I myself must admit having discovered only at an embarrassingly late stage in my life!

Best,

Alistair

[gyzzzmo]

I dont agree with these types of lists at all, for a (to me) very important reason.
I use these 'too hard pieces' as a benchmark, to notice my own progression and this is even more stimulating for me to make more progression.
Also, 'etudes' are there to learn from (except Liszt's etudes, wich arent really etudes). Saying not to do those, is like saying 'dont do this lesson untill you dont learn anything from that lesson'.


gyzzzmo

[franzliszt2]

Similarly, I was once surprised to find out how much piano music was written (but almost never played now) by very popular composers such as:
Sibelius
Rossini
Dvorak
Smetana
Tchaikovsky (how often are his solo pieces programmed?)

all of whom wrote a substantial amount of high quality solo pieces.

After all, I really don't think even an entire programme featuring the music of all these composers (highly popular in the opera house or orchestral scene) would conceivably "put off" the usual concert-going public. It's probably just that many performers are not really very curious.

I agree very much....except with Rossini. Those piano pieces he wrote are absolute trash! I played almost all of them becasue I stupidly agreed to play them before I knew them. I think they were called "from my old age" or something similar....total trash! His opera's are amazing though.

I agree wityh all the other composers you listed very much!