the studio lineage performance thread

[keypeg]

Since I'm forever the learner, I started music musing while listening to the wonderfully performed trio.  In the louder parts the strings seem almost drowned by the piano, and first I wondered about miking but then ..... in Chopin's time, it was a different piano than the modern grand.   I did find a recording where the piano was a Pleyel, but since this was about one's teacher etc. I didn't want to bring it into this thread.

[louispodesta]

I think that the teacher should either be able to play at the level being taught or very close to it, or to have played consistently at that level in the past (in the last segment I'm making allowances for the fact that much older teachers maybe can't play at the level they did in their 40s or 50s, but they still know what that level entails).

Put it another way, you wouldn't want to study Rach 3 with someone who'd never played anything harder than Schubert impromptus.

1)  Earl Wild recorded the Beethoven Opus 106 when he was 76 years "young."  Calendar based age has nothing to do with it.

2)  Please pull up the Youtube Video of Rubenstein playing the Saint-Saens #2, live and in concert with Andre Previn (London Philharmonic Orchestra).

3)  The ability to perform, especially in front of a student, has nothing to do with anything.

4)  (98% of the DMA's who make it that far, have a nervous system that is most likely "fried beyond repair."  That means they cannot only teach, it means that they have spent the last 10 years getting to this point of "disrepair."

5

[beethovenfan01]

3)  The ability to perform, especially in front of a student, has nothing to do with anything.

On the contrary, it's EVERYTHING. Maybe not necessarily in front of a student, but a teacher who performs often and well will have FAR more knowledge based on experience to share than a teacher who can play the Hammerklavier perfectly in private but has never been able to play in front of a crowd, I think.

4)  (98% of the DMA's who make it that far, have a nervous system that is most likely "fried beyond repair."  That means they cannot only teach, it means that they have spent the last 10 years getting to this point of "disrepair."

Where did you get those numbers? Please do elaborate. Thus far you seem quite convinced of your own rightness and everybody else's wrongness. I find that hard to believe.

[georgey]

I think that the teacher should either be able to play at the level being taught or very close to it, or to have played consistently at that level in the past (in the last segment I'm making allowances for the fact that much older teachers maybe can't play at the level they did in their 40s or 50s, but they still know what that level entails).

Put it another way, you wouldn't want to study Rach 3 with someone who'd never played anything harder than Schubert impromptus.

I don't see how anyone can disagree with this.  Simple, common sense logic here.

[keypeg]

4)  (98% of the DMA's who make it that far....

What is a "DMA"?

[georgey]

1)  Earl Wild recorded the Beethoven Opus 106 when he was 76 years "young."  Calendar based age has nothing to do with it.

I thought that you claimed to be an expert in predicate logic? Perhaps you may need to brush up on your universal quantifiers.    

You seem to be implying:  If “there exists” someone that can play great at an old age then “all” players that played great at a younger age can play great when they are old.

Please correct me if I am not understanding what you are saying.

[visitor]

What is a "DMA"?

its the terminal degree in the formal music study field ie equivalent to the PhD in arts and sciences
many performance track artists will go this route if the intent is to teach at a university and or conservatories
after a masters one can go this route then also a performance artist diploma or do the diploma before the dma
one can teach at some institutions without but it's rare you have to be a pretty rare talent and well established regarded then they can court you for a coveted artist in residence position but almost alwayse dma is needed and also prerquisite for adminiatration roles
once can do a Dma and still be brought on as an artist in residence but not super common

example since in my post I said this isn't just about treachers or teaching rather anything involving the studio or MC sessions
this girl is awesome I love  her playing we share a common teacher in our past ie same studio but chronology a bit different she either just finished or is about to complete her DMA but she also and traveled around the world to teach at various academies and festivals

not only a great performer and interpreter of this composer on particular,  but I know her she's super cool and nice , bright-supernsmart ,  hard working

[keypeg]

its the terminal degree in the formal music sitdy field ie equivalent to the PhD in arts and sciences
many performance track artists will go this route if the intent is to teach at a university and or conservatories
after a masters one can go this route then also a performance artist diploma or do the diploma before the dma
one can teach at some institutions without but it's rare you have to be a pretty rare talent and well established regarded them they can court you for a coveted artist in residence position but almost always beyond the the dma is needed and also a pre  registration dministration
once can do a Dma and still be brought on as an artist in residence but not super common

Thank you.

I just looked at degrees at a known Canadian university.  I saw B.Mus. (Bachelors), M.Mus. (Masters) and D.Music (Doctors = PhD).  I looked further under DMA and found some.  Then I also found this: https://www.mcgill.ca/music/people-research/areas/music-education

It appears as if the the DMA trains toward a kind of professorship, to teach in the academic way that professors teach, while the last one teaches how to teach in a much more practical and maybe real way.

That said, I don't know why DMA was mentioned in the first place in that post.  Did the performer who was under discussion hold a DMA?

(This is where I found a description of the DMA - I assume it's similar in the US?  https://www.grad.ubc.ca/prospective-students/graduate-degree-programs/doctor-of-musical-arts-voice))

[keypeg]

You seem to be implying:  If “there exists” someone that can play great at an old age then “all” players that played great at a younger age can play great when they are old.

Please correct me if I am not understanding what you are saying.

I believe I may understand what he was saying, because of what my teacher has told me more than once.  Namely that a performer who is still playing at an old age, must not have any kind of debilitating technical habits that would have caused injury by that stage.  Younger people "can get away with things" because their bodies are more elastic and forgiving.  I was advised "If you want to catch effective technique, watch an old performer who still plays well."

It may be easier to understand this premise if you are entering later years of life yourself.

[keypeg]

I didn't get any response to my other post, which isn't surprising because it was OT.  I did get an answer of sorts off-site.

Since I'm forever the learner, I started music musing while listening to the wonderfully performed trio.  In the louder parts the strings seem almost drowned by the piano, and first I wondered about miking but then ..... in Chopin's time, it was a different piano than the modern grand.   I did find a recording where the piano was a Pleyel, but since this was about one's teacher etc. I didn't want to bring it into this thread.

The answer was: miking + the writing by a very young Chopin of music that included instruments other than piano.   When the string instruments play in the same register as the piano, they tend to drown somewhat under the more powerful sound of a piano. It's not the pianist, but the music as written.  "Miking" for a recording might help with that.  In a live performance it can't be compensated for.

I heard only one performance where the violin and cello (esp. violin) also came out clearly with their full sound, and that was a performance that featured the likes of Oistrakh - they made darn sure that the violin's voice came out.

&t=561

[visitor]

I didn't get any response to my other post, which isn't surprising because it was OT.  I did get an answer of sorts off-site.
The answer was: miking + the writing by a very young Chopin of music that included instruments other than piano.   When the string instruments play in the same register as the piano, they tend to drown somewhat under the more powerful sound of a piano. It's not the pianist, but the music as written.  "Miking" for a recording might help with that.  In a live performance it can't be compensated for.

I heard only one performance where the violin and cello (esp. violin) also came out clearly with their full sound, and that was a performance that featured the likes of Oistrakh - they made darn sure that the violin's voice came out.

&t=561

thanks for that, i caught a little of that too and thought maybe also it wa more a result of orchestration/instrument timbre register etc and competition w the keyboard writing vs anything else, but didn't know if was just my innards telling me that or if others substantiated/hypothesized that as well.

:-]