the studio lineage performance thread

[visitor]

just thought would be fun, no hard rules just post cool performances of
current teacher if you have one
former teacher
your teacher's former teacher
other students current or former
free discussion again may. it go anywhere or may go completely sideways or get super interesting

[visitor]

old but gold. teacher of a former teacher of mine
hes really good but doesnt get much coverage , there's a recording his arrangement of a Chopin etude into double. notes. need to find it

not a huge fan of this set of pieces by Tchaikovsky but when I do find myself wanting to hear them , I play this video

[clouseau]

Your teachers teacher has a very individual tone and long singing lines. I really like his playing.
I would rather not reveal the names of my teachers, but the teacher of the teacher of my teacher was Cortot. The former teacher of the teacher of my brother, was Tatiana Nikolaeva. This can happen to anyone of course, its not a big deal. And it doesn't make much difference to us, we still suck at playing the piano  ( i mean me and my bro)

[visitor]

Your teachers teacher has a very individual tone and long singing lines. I really like his playing.
I would rather not reveal the names of my teachers, but the teacher of the teacher of my teacher was Cortot. The former teacher of the teacher of my brother, was Tatiana Nikolaeva. This can happen to anyone of course, its not a big deal. And it doesn't make much difference to us, we still suck at playing the piano  ( i mean me and my bro)

Super cool
Don't worry it's not called suck, i like to refer to it as saw as Of yet unrefined talent  :

Hadn't thought to back super far,  becomes a fun research game, but a teacher's teacher ie just 1 removed from current if they were a big influence,  that can shapes a lot,of how we are taught so the wisdom is less distilled. So to speak

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Yeah I'd also not wanna reveal the name of my teacher but his teacher was Alexander Toradze

[dogperson]

I’ve never asked my teacher; She has a masters from a well-known conservatory so I’m sure there is lineage there.  I’ve just always had the perception  that even those who study with historical great teachers, will never play or teach like their mentor did, as music is so individual. Is this a common philosophy or just mine? 

[ronde_des_sylphes]

My teacher studied with Yves Nat at the Paris Conservatoire. From the sounds of it, the study regime was hard as hell. I certainly wouldn't have survived it.

[visitor]

My teacher studied with Yves Nat at the Paris Conservatoire. From the sounds of it, the study regime was hard as hell. I certainly wouldn't have survived it.

awesome!
 yeah no way I would have even come close to making it w the stories I hear from my current and former teachers on what they went through and how their instructors went through the wringer also.

my teachers's, teacher's--Teacher (one of them)
Lev Neumov, here he gives a great lesson/masterclass discussion w a performer on Scriabin Etude op 42 no 5
(and way way way wayyy back, Neumov studied with my hero of the old guard Heinrich Neuhaus),

[ronde_des_sylphes]

My theory is that at least 50% of current pianists can trace a lineage back to Liszt or Chopin. if Italian, probably Thalberg.

In my case my teacher < Nat < Diemer < Marmontel  < P. Zimmerman < Alkan

[visitor]

My theory is that at least 50% of current pianists can trace a lineage back to Liszt or Chopin. if Italian, probably Thalberg.

In my case my teacher < Nat < Diemer < Marmontel  < P. Zimmerman < Alkan

awesome theory, and very probable indeed , and if not the case likely super close by percentage or by adding just a few more names.

...--->>>ronde des sylphes for the win!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I've seriously considered posting one of his Chopin Ballades or perhaps the Liszt sonata, which was very dear to him. I've got a copy somewhere.

[klavieronin]

My theory is that at least 50% of current pianists can trace a lineage back to Liszt or Chopin. if Italian, probably Thalberg.

And the other 50% can trace a lineage back to Leschetizky.

[visitor]

I've seriously considered posting one of his Chopin Ballades or perhaps the Liszt sonata, which was very dear to him. I've got a copy somewhere.

yes please do! would be an awesome way to keep remembering his impact on you and we can enjoy his art!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

And the other 50% can trace a lineage back to Leschetizky.

 

yes please do! would be an awesome way to keep remembering his impact on you and we can enjoy his art!

I'll look it out later!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

@ visitor  (and others!) - this should work; it's an old link I had for sharing. From the file size I assume it's a 320 mp3.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/wnz2ix7ddt22t6t/05_-_Liszt_Sonata.mp3

Recorded 1994. If you want to know who is playing, go to my website and infer

[visitor]

@ visitor  (and others!) - this should work; it's an old link I had for sharing. From the file size I assume it's a 320 mp3.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/wnz2ix7ddt22t6t/05_-_Liszt_Sonata.mp3

Recorded 1994. If you want to know who is playing, go to my website and infer

outstanding
I had audio of a former teacher on some liszt I'll post it later

[louispodesta]

My theory is that at least 50% of current pianists can trace a lineage back to Liszt or Chopin. if Italian, probably Thalberg.

In my case my teacher < Nat < Diemer < Marmontel  < P. Zimmerman < Alkan

1)  The title of this post is supposed to infer a performance-related subject.  It does not, and it should be posted on the "Teaching Forum."  That is if the so-called Moderator is doing their job!

2)  Accordingly, my video "Your Piano Teacher Taught You Wrong" speaks in "Part II" to the subject of piano teacher lineage, for which I have been widely ridiculed.

3)  Further, the lineage which the "Visitor" brags about does not include the name of Theodor Leschitizky, who lineage was Schnabel, Rosen, Fleisher, et al.

4)  Most importantly, this lineage establishes, (in terms of both "Linear and Circular Causality), how the Piano was Originally (Not Historic Performance) was played.

5)  Further, I list the following detailed response to the comment by Charles Blanchard that I posted in regards the specifics of this lineage and its associated pedagogy/methodology:

["The purpose of this video is to bring the knowledge of original performance practice to the general public, that is:  how the composer pianists who wrote this great music actually played their own music.  It is not a commentary on style, but is instead a revelation of existing research as to how the music was originally played.

Today, this music is played in a strict Urtext fashion "Strict Attention To the Score" which is a total bastardization of the concept of Philosophical Modernity promoted in the early 20th century.  Modernism/Modernity was never meant to apply to pre-existing works.

Accordingly, it would be considered insanity to enter any art museum and announce that everything needed a new coat of paint.  However, that is exactly what the music schools of this planet have done with the piano music of 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries.

Every Fine Art matriculate in the world is required to study the early masters of their particular art form in order to fully understand how to effectuate it today.  With the exception of the UK, no university music school requires their students to be knowledgeable of the original historic performance practice of their particular instrument or genre.

Once again, I recommend that one peruse the book "Off The Record" by Dr. Neal Peres Da Costa, a student of Dr. Clive Brown who is considered to be the leading applied musicologist in the world regarding Classical and Romantic Period interpretation.  Also, there is the new doctoral thesis published in May of 2015 by Dr. Miaoyin Qu, "Piano Playing in the German Tradition 1840-1900. Rediscovering the Un-notated Convention of Performance."  She is also a student of Dr. Brown.

Like Dr. Peres Da Costa she extensively discusses the original performance practices of the breaking of the hands, arpeggiation, improvisation, and tempo modification.  Finally, it needs to be said that there is a significant difference between performance practice and style.

Clara Schumann, and her students Fanny Davies, Adelina de Lara, Ilona Eibenschutz , and Carl Friedberg, all played in different styles.  However, they all played with the same performance practices listed above.  Conversely, Arrau, Backhaus, Gieseking, and the pianists of today, all played/play in different styles,.  Yet, in terms of performance practice, they all render the same note-perfect, robotic meticulous attention to the score that never existed when the music was originally composed."]

[ronde_des_sylphes]

1)  The title of this post is supposed to infer a performance-related subject.  It does not, and it should be posted on the "Teaching Forum."  That is if the so-called Moderator is doing their job!

2)  Accordingly, my video "Your Piano Teacher Taught You Wrong" speaks in "Part II" to the subject of piano teacher lineage, for which I have been widely ridiculed.

3)  Further, the lineage which the "Visitor" brags about does not include the name of Theodor Leschitizky, who lineage was Schnabel, Rosen, Fleisher, et al.

4)  Most importantly, this lineage establishes, (in terms of both "Linear and Circular Causality), how the Piano was Originally (Not Historic Performance) was played.

5)  Further, I list the following detailed response to the comment by Charles Blanchard that I posted in regards the specifics of this lineage and its associated pedagogy/methodology:

["The purpose of this video is to bring the knowledge of original performance practice to the general public, that is:  how the composer pianists who wrote this great music actually played their own music.  It is not a commentary on style, but is instead a revelation of existing research as to how the music was originally played.

Today, this music is played in a strict Urtext fashion "Strict Attention To the Score" which is a total bastardization of the concept of Philosophical Modernity promoted in the early 20th century.  Modernism/Modernity was never meant to apply to pre-existing works.

Accordingly, it would be considered insanity to enter any art museum and announce that everything needed a new coat of paint.  However, that is exactly what the music schools of this planet have done with the piano music of 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries.

Every Fine Art matriculate in the world is required to study the early masters of their particular art form in order to fully understand how to effectuate it today.  With the exception of the UK, no university music school requires their students to be knowledgeable of the original historic performance practice of their particular instrument or genre.

Once again, I recommend that one peruse the book "Off The Record" by Dr. Neal Peres Da Costa, a student of Dr. Clive Brown who is considered to be the leading applied musicologist in the world regarding Classical and Romantic Period interpretation.  Also, there is the new doctoral thesis published in May of 2015 by Dr. Miaoyin Qu, "Piano Playing in the German Tradition 1840-1900. Rediscovering the Un-notated Convention of Performance."  She is also a student of Dr. Brown.

Like Dr. Peres Da Costa she extensively discusses the original performance practices of the breaking of the hands, arpeggiation, improvisation, and tempo modification.  Finally, it needs to be said that there is a significant difference between performance practice and style.

Clara Schumann, and her students Fanny Davies, Adelina de Lara, Ilona Eibenschutz , and Carl Friedberg, all played in different styles.  However, they all played with the same performance practices listed above.  Conversely, Arrau, Backhaus, Gieseking, and the pianists of today, all played/play in different styles,.  Yet, in terms of performance practice, they all render the same note-perfect, robotic meticulous attention to the score that never existed when the music was originally composed."]

I can only assume, Louis, that you have problems with written communication and / or comprehension. Most of that lengthy post is both off-topic and essentially spam. I will be charitable and not report you.

You post the same spiel ad nauseum with very little concern for the content of topics. I actually have some sympathy for the general thesis you present, but it does not need to crop up over and over. I hope Dr da Costa appreciates the free (?) advertising.

[visitor]

1)  The title of this post is supposed to infer a performance-related subject.  It does not, and it should be posted on the "Teaching Forum."  
3)  Further, the lineage which the "Visitor" brags about...

lol
like ronde states please read my opening remarks,

just thought would be fun, no hard rules just post cool performances ....
free discussion again may. it go anywhere or may go completely sideways or get super interesting

no one bragging here , as a matter of fact pretty much everyone replying has acknowledged how wholey Inadequate we are relative to the colossal talent and pedigree we had the privilege to work with and learn some
if I could play at 10 percent of the talent any of my teachers  had on their worst day In their left or right  pinky
i would be way better than I am now and would be  content to remain at that achievement level

again....as I quoted myself...just for fun and free discussion on about and especially w regard to performances  recordings  or videos
:-)
thanks for shopping

ps I'm visitor,  I'm not yet at the level where the V gets capitalized,  some day perhaps ....

[louispodesta]

As I have stated, this is supposed to be a "Performance Forum."  That does not connote or denote that if you have a famous piano teacher (vis a vis some Piano Competition) that individual  is a highly qualified teacher.

My three top teachers have never won a top Piano Competition, but their multiple degrees are all pedagogically impeccable.  Every school they graduated from insisted that they have a very strong theory/composition background (Ithaca, UT Austin, Columbia University, Rice University, and Peabody).  Additionally, for the record, they all have so-called "lineage" graduate and DMA degrees.

That means that they were and are "Musicians," which is what most Competition Winner Teachers are not!

Parenthetically, once upon a time, a Dear friend of mine said the following:  "when people criticize you for not having socially acceptable communication skills, this is the reason.  You communicate very well, better than most.  They simply do not like what you have to say.

So, when I describe myself (reluctantly because I am an Iconoclast at heart) as a Classical Pianist/Philosopher, that is for those who espouse a "simplistic" written word.

[keypeg]

I see somebody asking others for performances of their teachers and teachers' teachers, for no reason at all or just for the fun of it.  This has nothing to do with the quality of them as teachers. It makes sense that piano teachers also play the piano, and someone may be curious how that teacher plays the piano.  This is not the teaching forum, and has nothing to do with teaching.

Maybe I missed something about "competition winners".  I did not see anything about such a thing in the thread, and why should there be?

I have not participated in this thread for a number reasons.  The main one being that my teacher does not have his performances out there.  Not everyone who teaches likes to perform publicly.  Some actually play superbly privately, and will privilege their students and people close to them, but for whatever reason don't care for the public eye (or ear).

[klavieronin]

So, back to the topic at hand. I have to admit I wasn't a very good pupil but here it is anyway.

[visitor]

Many thanks klavironen and keypeg.
And as stated ,mainly for fun and maybe spur cool side related discussions etc
Here's a neat one of several teacher's of a former teacher of mine ,
Raymond Dudley playing a really nice little 20th century but approachable and attractive concerto

Also I kept it broad, cool for any performances of other students from, same studio
These threads can sometimes yield videos of awesome performances I might never and known or seen like the wonderful liszt ronde shared or the great record g of the Beethoven 3rd on a Stuart and sons piano!!!!

[chopinlover01]

My jazz teacher, Randy Porter, had his most recent album nominated for a Grammy.

https://katu.com/news/entertainment/portlands-own-portugal-the-man-randy-porter-trio-nancy-king-receive-grammy-nominations

[mjames]

Mine has studied with Jerome Lowenthal, chairman of the piano department in Julliard. She's also the guest pianist of a pretty renown orchestra.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

@ visitor: glad you liked the Liszt. I find it an interesting reading, it's not the most virtuosic but I also find it intellectually engaged whilst remaining emotive (ie not stepping into the pedantic quadrant of intellectuality). I've got regrets about never studying the piece with him - so much time spent on paraphrases which are fun but generally far more interpretatively one-dimensional.

[keypeg]

Many thanks klavironen and keypeg.
And as stated ,mainly for fun and maybe spur cool side related discussions etc.

That expands it.

I shall be watching with interest.

[gaidheal]

I started watching that Lev Naumov Scriabin masterclass - great stuff! I'll bookmark it and return to finish it off another day. Thanks for posting, visitor!

[visitor]

I started watching that Lev Naumov Scriabin masterclass - great stuff! I'll bookmark it and return to finish it off another day. Thanks for posting, visitor!

save it
I did
Incredibly deep insight
you could have been playing playing the etude your entire life and his pointers would still make your way if viewing  listening to and playing it better.

[visitor]

what about any compositions or arrangements ?
I didn't get to spend as much time as i would have liked to w him but in my time, I tried to absorb as much as I possibly could . though honestly it was like trying to drink water by standing at the base of a waterfall, all but impossible to try and take in all at once.

this is a piece he composed,  lino to the 2:24 or so of audio in the page as an audio sample
https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/a-nod-to-cee-cee-sheet-music/19862080

[keypeg]

If you want to go the "teacher of teacher" route - When my teacher got to university, not having been well equipped technically by the first teacher, one professor there had a profound influence on his playing.  It helps to be keenly observant.  The teacher of that professor:

&

Is it "lineage"?  I don't think so.  The first lackluster teacher had the greater influence, because when you are not taught as needed, and have to find answers, there is a much greater awareness and more to give students than if the music flows out with the teacher unaware.

[mike_lang]

Here's some teaching footage of a former teacher of mine:

[mike_lang]

Here's some playing footage of another former teacher of mine, Émile Naoumoff:

[mike_lang]

And my doctoral professor, Rita Sloan:

[georgey]

@ visitor  (and others!) - this should work; it's an old link I had for sharing. From the file size I assume it's a 320 mp3.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/wnz2ix7ddt22t6t/05_-_Liszt_Sonata.mp3

Recorded 1994. If you want to know who is playing, go to my website and infer

Wonderful performance and recording!  Not as flashy as some but he nailed this.  I just ordered a used CD copy on Amazon with 4 Ballades by Chopin.

My teacher in classical guitar at the University of Toronto studied with Andres Segovia.  Here is Segovia playing the Bach Chaconne.  It is a little sloppy compared to today’s standards and played in the “old style”.  I love this performance anyway.  Maybe my favorite of all Chaconnes (no doubt from my hearing this over and over as a kid).

[keypeg]

 It is a little sloppy compared to today’s standards and played in the “old style”.  I love this performance anyway.  Maybe my favorite of all Chaconnes (no doubt from my hearing this over and over as a kid).

It is musical, with a type of nuancing that is rare.  "Sloppy"?  I wouldn't  think so.  Everything seems very thought out - typical Segovia.  Thank you for sharing!

[beethovenfan01]

Here's the professor who WILL be my teacher starting next fall:

I am looking forward to studying with him.

[louispodesta]

Here's the professor who WILL be my teacher starting next fall:

I am looking forward to studying with him.

Thank you so much for exposing the "Fraud," of this obvious "Promotional Video," (similar to my widely criticized video):

On the contrary, this current video is a perfect example of how ones performance ability, in no way translates to a person as a "Pedagogue."   That is: his ability to teach.

I will not waste my time, (now or in future) to re-state the technique methodology of Dorothy Taubman, Edna Golandsky, Thomas Mark, and my current technique coach, Dr. Nicole Narboni.

Needles to say, this man will not be playing the piano successfully in the future, if he continues to "Beat Up" his hands.  And, that includes his wrists, forearms, elbows, shoulders, and most importantly his Ulnar Nerve, if he continues to "Pound" on the piano.

As a suggestion, if your desire is to learn how to play the piano, (absent studying under some "Contest Winner Hot Dog,") please contact me by PM.

[beethovenfan01]

Thank you so much for exposing the "Fraud," of this obvious "Promotional Video," (similar to my widely criticized video):

On the contrary, this current video is a perfect example of how ones performance ability, in no way translates to a person as a "Pedagogue."   That is: his ability to teach.

I will not waste my time, (now or in future) to re-state the technique methodology of Dorothy Taubman, Edna Golandsky, Thomas Mark, and my current technique coach, Dr. Nicole Narboni.

Needles to say, this man will not be playing the piano successfully in the future, if he continues to "Beat Up" his hands.  And, that includes his wrists, forearms, elbows, shoulders, and most importantly his Ulnar Nerve, if he continues to "Pound" on the piano.

As a suggestion, if your desire is to learn how to play the piano, (absent studying under some "Contest Winner Hot Dog,") please contact me by PM.

Excuse me?

I am sorry but I must protest. If I showed him your comment he would probably laugh. And also--yes, it is a promotional video, for a college that I will be attending! If you please, it was one of the few I can find of him. Also, up to this point, I have had 3 lessons with him already, and I can say that he is as good a teacher as he is a pianist, and all his students are very good as well and have also won major competitions.

Not to mention that he won the Martha Argerich competition awhile back.

Up until now I've tolerated your sometimes-obnoxious posting, but this is crossing a line. I am sorry but if you do this again I'm reporting YOU to the moderator. Stop being a troll.

[visitor]

Here's some teaching footage of a former teacher of mine:

awesome !!!

[louispodesta]

Excuse me?

I am sorry but I must protest. If I showed him your comment he would probably laugh. And also--yes, it is a promotional video, for a college that I will be attending! If you please, it was one of the few I can find of him. Also, up to this point, I have had 3 lessons with him already, and I can say that he is as good a teacher as he is a pianist, and all his students are very good as well and have also won major competitions.

Not to mention that he won the Martha Argerich competition awhile back.

Up until now I've tolerated your sometimes-obnoxious posting, but this is crossing a line. I am sorry but if you do this again I'm reporting YOU to the moderator. Stop being a troll.

Per my prior post, you do not live in the reality of Piano Pedagogy.  Instead, as the overwhelming pianistswho (very sincerely) post their opinions on some great pianist.  Which, as I have alluded to, directly correlates to ones ability to teach.

Therefore, I quote from your post:

"I have had 3 lessons with him already, and I can say that he is as good a teacher as he is a pianist, and all his students are very good as well and have also won major competitions.

Not to mention that he won the Martha Argerich competition awhile back."

Duh!  "Contest Winner Hot Dog?"

[beethovenfan01]

Per my prior post, you do not live in the reality of Piano Pedagogy.  Instead, as the overwhelming pianistswho (very sincerely) post their opinions on some great pianist.  Which, as I have alluded to, directly correlates to ones ability to teach.

Therefore, I quote from your post:

"I have had 3 lessons with him already, and I can say that he is as good a teacher as he is a pianist, and all his students are very good as well and have also won major competitions.

Not to mention that he won the Martha Argerich competition awhile back."

Duh!  "Contest Winner Hot Dog?"

And there is something WRONG with winning competitions? Perhaps the competitions themselves could be much better executed, but surely there is nothing wrong with winning competitions.

Also, may I ask. If I do not live in the reality of piano pedagogy, you are assuming that YOU do. Well what's your "reality" of piano pedagogy? What do you have the he lacks? I watched (part) of your video once, because I really am eager to learn all I can. I did not see much that impressed me, though I cannot truly remember, as that was several months ago. Nor do I really care to remember.

Bashing other pianist's teachers is quite a popular thing on this sub, and bashing people in general seems to be your specialty here, per my observation over an extended period of time. Now PERHAPS you do have some valuable information to share, and perhaps there is something I could learn from you. But your delivery makes me never want to go anywhere near it. And anyway, it is highly, highly, HIGHLY improbable that what you insist is right cannot be found somewhere else.

Good day.

[keypeg]

And there is something WRONG with winning competitions? Perhaps the competitions themselves could be much better executed, but surely there is nothing wrong with winning competitions.

The particular picture that Louis envisions and is against is a stance that I would also agree with.  That is, choosing a teacher on the basis of his having won competitions or even playing impressively, and deeming him a "great teacher" (to take the title of a thread that has gone south) on that basis.  A teacher is a good teacher if he can teach; that is what determines a good teacher.

Being able to actually teach means presenting things in a way that is comprehensible and doable by the student, and also matches the learning needs of the student.  That depends on where the student is at in his journey.

The problem with this thread is that some of us have fantastic teachers who have decided that they don't like performing, that they are very interested in teaching, so there are no recordings to put forth.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

The particular picture that Louis envisions and is against is a stance that I would also agree with.  That is, choosing a teacher on the basis of his having won competitions or even playing impressively, and deeming him a "great teacher" (to take the title of a thread that has gone south) on that basis.  A teacher is a good teacher if he can teach; that is what determines a good teacher.

Being able to actually teach means presenting things in a way that is comprehensible and doable by the student, and also matches the learning needs of the student.  That depends on where the student is at in his journey.

Agreed, but with one very important caveat. If a student is studying at anywhere from beginner level to, for example, the simpler Beethoven sonatas, then of course the only real issue is the teacher's ability to teach and communicate; there is absolutely no reason to find a teacher who is also a virtuoso.. However, if the pupil is seeking to play "big" works well, to enter competitions, to have a career, etc, then they need a teacher who is NOT ONLY good at teaching, but ALSO a fine pianist in their own right. The "master pianist" / teacher will be able to impart far more knowledge re interpretation and solving of technical problems by dint of having performed and thought at a high level.

[keypeg]

Agreed, but with one very important caveat. If a student is studying at anywhere from beginner level to, for example, the simpler Beethoven sonatas, then of course the only real issue is the teacher's ability to teach and communicate; there is absolutely no reason to find a teacher who is also a virtuoso.. However, if the pupil is seeking to play "big" works well, to enter competitions, to have a career, etc, then they need a teacher who is NOT ONLY good at teaching, but ALSO a fine pianist in their own right. The "master pianist" / teacher will be able to impart far more knowledge re interpretation and solving of technical problems by dint of having performed and thought at a high level.

Only if that virtuoso pianist knows how to solve technical problems, which he may not, if what he does is instinctive, or if he is not aware of the roots of what he is doing because it was so long ago.  The ability to teach must be there.

Actually there is a tale by Louis where I never got an answer, which was another thread.  This involved a student who had a session with a teacher and was impressed by that teacher's playing.  The point was "preparation" as I recall, but it seemed that the preparation was in being able to play the piece impressively in front of the student.  The student said something like "I'll never be able to play that fast."  My question was: If the student had more lessons with that teacher, did he eventually learn to play that fast?  Or at least, faster?   In terms of "preparation", I would see "preparation to teach" rather than "preparation to perform".  This means looking into what is behind that fast playing (or whatever), how to transmit this to the student, and also to that particular student.  This is what I had wanted to explore, and it never got addressed.

The ability to teach is what I am stressing.

Related to this also: If a youngish performer plays with "chops" and impressively, he may still be doing it in suboptimal ways in terms of body use and get away with it just because he has that kind of talent or whatever.    I've been told to watch for an old pianist who is still playing well, and then suss out that person's technique, because for him to have reached that age and still play, there is something optimal behind it.  Rubinstein is an example that was pointed out to me more than once.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Only if that virtuoso pianist knows how to solve technical problems, which he may not, if what he does is instinctive, or if he is not aware of the roots of what he is doing because it was so long ago.  The ability to teach must be there.

[...]

The ability to teach is what I am stressing.

I wouldn't dispute that, but my point is that if the pupil wants to play "big" works (and nowadays this is likely to be a prerequisite for conservatoires, competitions, recitals etc) there isn't much point in studying with a teacher who can't play anything harder than mid-period Beethoven. That hypothetical teacher certainly won't be able to solve technical problems for the pupil if he's not yet reached that level himself. Obviously he still has to be able to impart the relevant knowledge, but *both* the technical problem solving and the communication aspects need to be present. The teacher can't teach what he doesn't know how to do (although I'm sure you'll find there are ones who are shameless and charlatan enough to try feign knowledge they don't possess and bluff the teaching thereof).

[keypeg]

I wouldn't dispute that, but my point is that if the pupil wants to play "big" works (and nowadays this is likely to be a prerequisite for conservatoires, competitions, recitals etc) there isn't much point in studying with a teacher who can't play anything harder than mid-period Beethoven. That hypothetical teacher certainly won't be able to solve technical problems for the pupil if he's not yet reached that level himself. Obviously he still has to be able to impart the relevant knowledge, but *both* the technical problem solving and the communication aspects need to be present. The teacher can't teach what he doesn't know how to do (although I'm sure you'll find there are ones who are shameless and charlatan enough to try feign knowledge they don't possess and bluff the teaching thereof).

A thing I'm puzzling about atm, is how the idea of being able to teach, would lead to an idea of not being able to play at the level of what is being taught?  (Perhaps that is what you were thinking?)

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I think that the teacher should either be able to play at the level being taught or very close to it, or to have played consistently at that level in the past (in the last segment I'm making allowances for the fact that much older teachers maybe can't play at the level they did in their 40s or 50s, but they still know what that level entails).

Put it another way, you wouldn't want to study Rach 3 with someone who'd never played anything harder than Schubert impromptus.

[louispodesta]

Once again, as I have stated privately to "Keypeg:" there is no "Commonality" stated logic associated with this particular Post.

[visitor]

well I did say no rules or point to the post other than to post cool performances and videos , in my case just selfishly fishing for performances I might not come.across on my own, certainly never did I set out to make a point between performing ability and teaching,  but ronde has a lot of points. indeed especially at advanced level , and it's also on the student to work hard to learn and apply

be that as it may , I posted this in performance vksrd becusse well , I'm more interested in performances , and I did not limit it to just teachers I also said cool.to post and discuss other students from same studio

masterclasses are good fodder too. so I'm surprised not brought up/about yet.

I got to participate in a handful of masterclasses w this artist over several years,  the insights I received in each stage lesson after performing were profound and I try to apply them to each and every work I set out on since

I always liked this early work of Chopin and they all did a nice job of it. she has other videos up and about on YouTube,  worth exploring. I saw her live do Tchaikiovsky no 1 which is kind of a bore the way a lot of pianists go about it, and I dont think it was his best concerto I digress... but she rocked it and it was exciting to watch/listen too. And she also  just a super cool lady.