On teaching RUBATO

[dinulip]

Hi there,  Do you have any suggestion on how to explain rubato a gifted 11-year-old child how to play 'rubato'?  She is now playing Chopin's easy Waltz in A minor (Posthumous)!  A little 'rubato' would add so much to her performance...  Looking forward to your response!

[Bob]

A warping of time.  It depends on the style -- Maybe it's meant to be more stiff and robotic.  It's natural/balanced to slow down in some places and speed up in others.  It can follow the emotions of the piece.  It can range from super obvious to very, very subtle (if it's still considered rubato at that point).

It could be equivalent to speaking in a sense.  We add more to speaking.  It's not just static machine-gunning of words.  There's some speeding up/slowing down going on, along with other things. 

It could be like a rollercoaster.  There's no power except gravity on a rollercoaster after the initial giant hill.  When the car moves up a hill, it slows a little.  When it goes down, it gathers some speed.  That's kind of like rubato.  I guess the track might be the phrase.

[themeandvariation]

For this piece, the rubato could be seen as to where a singer - singing the melody - might take a breath, or a short pause - at the end of a phrase.
Because the melody is quite wide ranging - the student wouldn't actually be able to sing it literally - unless they shifted octaves as needed… But singing  along with the 'inner voice' - or tracking with a quiet  'da la da da -' for the 1st 4 note phrase..etc..
Rubato is a complex idea to translate.. hopefully this idea would be helpful - although there are other aspects to rubato -- slight stretto for ex.  (perhaps in places in the 2nd section of the piece.

The 'singer' metaphor i find helpful in working w students.

ps.
As a definition, (as I recall), the latin root of 'rubato' means - to rob/steal..  
To steal some 'time' - but also remembering to 'give it back'..
The complexity is of course, 'where, and how much'.. and developing that discretion..
But, 'a little goes a long way' with this.. - (and subtlety takes a while to develop).

[dogperson]

Just a personal analogy:  for me, it Is the difference between a tree that remains static and stilll versus one where there is a little wind movement. The tree with the wind will sway back-and-forth but will always go back to its original, rooted, position.   It might be the entire branches or just a few leaves. The swaying tree for me is rubato.

[quantum]

Another analogy:  wrap a rubber band around a small box.  You can tug on the rubber band on one face of the box, parts of the band will become tighter other parts will become looser.  Choose a different face of the box to tug, the rubber band will adjust and different parts will become tighter or looser.  You can also adjust the rubber band to provide equal tension on all four sides of the box.

More specifically to the Chopin piece: try playing recordings of vocal music to your student.  Point out how the rubato is working.  Chopin modeled a lot of his melodies around vocal music. 

[louispodesta]

Hi there,  Do you have any suggestion on how to explain rubato a gifted 11-year-old child how to play 'rubato'?  She is now playing Chopin's easy Waltz in A minor (Posthumous)!  A little 'rubato' would add so much to her performance...  Looking forward to your response!

First, I need to know whether or not this "Gifted 11 year Old" has reached "Puberty."  That has absolutely nothing to do with their technique.  However, it has a world of difference as it relates to their "Abstract Reasoning" ability.

In terms of human neurobiology, no one, NO ONE has the power of abstract reasoning until their brain reaches this stage.  Therefore, before I respond (and, I can in detail), I need to know whether or not the response I post is for you, and/or for your student.

[beethovenfan01]

I've heard it this way:

Ascending passages should run upwards like running to meet a beloved. Descending passages should back away reluctantly.

Also, I have heard that, within a measure, any and all pushing and pulling of the tempo should ALWAYS remain within the larger rhythm of the measure. In a waltz, for instance, beat 1 of each measure should remain steady, but within that everything else should flow like speech--not robotically, but playfully, or sadly, or passionately.

Disclaimer: I didn't get this when I was 11. I don't think many 11 year-olds do, though this one easily might, depending on how you present it. Good luck!

[keypeg]

changed my mind after reading the thread as a whole again.

[visitor]

honestly the matrix gives us the best example of the rubato in action
ie happens in real time but for Neo, things seem slow in the moment while overall time goes on,ie expands time I  the moment In isolation of the measure or beat
 

[louispodesta]

honestly the matrix gives us the best example of the rubato in action
ie happens in real time but for Neo, things seem slow in the moment while overall time goes on,ie expands time I  the moment In isolation of the measure or beat
 

I will respond in kind:  when and if someone tells me whether or not this OP is for real.   Unlike "Kepeg," I have no affiliation with this Website.

[keypeg]

Unlike "Kepeg," I have no affiliation with this Website.

I am a person who joined this forum one day after finding it on the Internet.  So you are not like that?

[mjames]

Take a lesson off and spend it listening to recordings of Cortot and other old-school pianists. Fancy words and analogies are awesome and all (not really), but experiencing it herself will probably make a bigger impact.

[keypeg]

Since I've been weirdly dragged into this discussion.

Were I to try at any kind of an answer (I'm not a piano teacher, and so shouldn't) I'd probably ask the OP Dinilup some questions.  How do you yourself perceive rubato?  How do you perceive it in connection with the piece your student is playing?  If you see your student as talented, what specific abilities that he has right now can you draw on and expand on?

My personal experience with rubato:
By nature I am probably a singer, and the "singing quality" tends to come into things I play if they lend themselves to it and I let loose.  It was all automatic, unconscious, and raw.  When I first worked with my main teacher, he referred to my "cliche" - I always created this kind of stretch at the end of every phrase, which got tiresome and monotonous. My note values might be correct proportionally vis-a-vis each other, but it was hard to follow any kind of pulse, because I didn't have a sense of underlying pulse.  That is one of the challenges of rubato: you want to get out of being metronomic, but keep the forward-moving rhythm that carries the music.

One element of rubato I learned with one piece was a gradual slowing down and speeding up without losing pulse. I used an imagery of an Easter bunny on skis going down one hill, up another, while regularly plopping out eggs.    It worked for me.  Probably wouldn't for anyone else.

Another thing I learned turned out to be called "agogic accent".  You might "meaningfully" delay the entrance of an important note, and oration works a bit like that - or a show: "And the winner is ... Whosit!"  Or someone giving a speech, a lecture, a line in a play or movie, who delays or rushes a key word for effect.  When I was learning to do this, I was plopping delays in weird places with weird effects, like a toddler who only gets things half right because she's learning and wildly experimenting.  You need to get an idea of why you want to do this to a note.  Studying the score, and listening carefully to master performers to find out what they did with "time", and why, was part of the process for me.

And now I'm bowing out, because I have no expertise in this area.

[Bob]

I remember one music teacher long ago saying it was "robbing" time from one place and giving it back in another, that you were supposed to end up with the same ending point whether you played it straight or took time from one place and gave it back in another.  I don't think I've ever heard or worried about balancing things out like that.  Usually it's the character of the piece.  If you're going to speed up in one place, there's probably another spot where slowing down makes sense, like the end.

I see rubato does literally mean stolen, to steal, in Italian.
https://www.wordreference.com/iten/rubato

[keypeg]

I remember one music teacher long ago saying it was "robbing" time from one place and giving it back in another, that you were supposed to end up with the same ending point whether you played it straight or took time from one place and gave it back in another. 

Yes, that is the meaning I learned too.  Trouble is that when I finished "robbing", people who were musicians or teachers said "I can't find the pulse."  So there was a bit more to it.

[timothy42b]

I'm not sure how much value the various metaphors have for students in general.  They may work for some, not at all for others. 

I do have an opinion on what is NOT rubato.  Speeding up for loud and slowing down for soft; speeding up for easy and slowing down for hard.  I hear this happen a lot. 

The other thing that is not rubato is a random change of tempo the student is not in control of.  I believe the steady internal pulse must come first, and if rubato is never learned that isn't a horrible failure.  You can still convey expression with dynamics and articulation.