Should i stop with this student?

[gyzzzmo]

hi everybody,

I have a 42 year old student, who asked me to give her lessons  because im cheap and willing to spent more time to her.
I knew she's having piano lessons for 4 years at a music school, but got horrified when i saw and heard her play for the first time.
She hardly could move her vingers apart from each other (she isn't reumatic)! Imagine what kind of arm/wrist movement she had to make to play 'Fur Elise'!
I've given her 2 lessons, each 45 min, and the only thing we did (we really had to do in my opinion) was training to move each finger independently, relax the arm, wrist, and not moving the hand.

She does realise its important to change her way of playing 360 degrees, back to the very basics, but she doesnt want to change the way she gets lessons on the music school. Probably she doesn't want to insult the guy who is teaching her.

What should i do with her, go on, 'force' her to stop or change her lessons from the music school, talk to the guy or just kill him?

Maybe i'm a bad teacher....
He probably has done the conservatory and i haven't got a diploma at all.


Gyzzzmo

[pianonut]

Dear Gyzzmo,

I think you should ask this question before taking a student (are you working with another teacher?)  But, once you take a student, I think it is somewhat unfair to just drop them.  Usually a student has something to play for you when they are first interviewed to be taken into your studio.  You may then explain that it is not your policy to counter another teachers method, but see that they need help by using somewhat different techniques.

Since you have already taken her as a student, perhaps you could just let it go and let HER be the one to see the differences of technique.  Just insist that when she comes for a lesson with you, to do things your way and not bring up the ideas of the other teacher (ie he/she says to do it this way).  Always explain the whys of your technique, too, and that will eliminate the wondering about who is correct.

[anda]

She does realise its important to change her way of playing 360 degrees

you mean 180?

[anda]

she doesnt want to change the way she gets lessons on the music school. Probably she doesn't want to insult the guy who is teaching her.

i never could teach anyone working at the same time with a teacher who teaches him/her a different technique from mine - i prefered to let the student go explaining simply "this way, i can't help you!"

but then again, maybe i'm wrong.

[gyzzzmo]

I just bluntly said to her that her lessons have been rediculous (thats my way....).
But she pays a lot of money for the lessons of the music school. To my opinion its a wast of money(for her) when she keeps playing this way for the other teacher. It would only work if we (the other teacher and i) both work on her technique first.

pianonut: if you have seen her way of playing, you cant act youre not countering him if you want to give serious lessons to her

anda: its nut really a struggle between -techniques-, because she hasnt got any technique. (you should se her  )


Gyzzzmo

[timothy42b]

This is a bit strange.

You have a fourth year student who appears to do most things wrong.

But can she play?  Or does she just look funny?  You probably can't change everything, and it may depend on her goals.

Also, have you taught older students before?  Some of us do a lot of things funny. <grin>

Just a quick story.  At Oregon State (I think that was the location), which is a hotbed of elite runners, they did a study on amateurs.  They took a group of amateur fun run clutzes, people who look funny when they run.  Their elbows stick out, they wobble, they bounce, etc.  All you have to do is take one look at one of their scholarship track stars, and you're stunned at the difference. 

Anyway, they took the group and coached them intensely on form.  Posture, arm motion, balance, breathing, the works.  After a month or so they were able to convert all of them to a decent level of running form.  They all looked good.

Performance?  Well, measured by times, distances, VO2 max, etc., - none of them improved a bit.  They all looked better but didn't really run any better. 

I'm not saying this applies directly to your student.  She may really have deficient technique that will limit her progress.  But I think with a student that old you have to evaluate what is really limiting bad technique, and what is just idiosyncratic, because you probably can't "fix" it all.  I went to a golf pro once, and he said I had naturally developed an SA swing, and at the pro level that would limit me, but at my level I would be far better off maximizing my current pattern than trying to convert to CG. 

[galonia]

Wow - I have never known anyone to have two teachers simultaneously, nor do I know any teacher who would accept such a situation.

That's not to say I don't play for other people - my teacher encourages me to see other people for consultations.  But for regular lessons, I must only have one teacher, otherwise everything will become too confusing - each teacher has their own way of teaching and they may have contradictory short-term goals for the student to work on.

And of course, it is ok to have separate teachers for the separate subjects of harmony and counterpoint, aural (solfege), and form and history.  But for just piano performance, I don't think you should allow your student to have two teachers.

[ChristmasCarol]

Recently I've been struggling with the issue of whether to keep trying with an incredibly dyslexic student.  What I came to realize is that I really need to have some kind of progress in my students to keep showing up for them.  It's extraordinarily draining to suffer through lessons with profound issues glaring at you.  So my advice is to look at how you feel, how is this advancing your musicianship/teaching.  The well of energy you draw on is an important aspect to keep guard over.  So, to put it bluntly, if you feel enormous waves of dread at the thought of the impending lesson,  if the time and thought you are giving to this keeps growing, then get rid of the student.   I had a 50 year old student who whined a lot and never practiced.  He said, "I have been playing for years and not progressing."  I, ever so clearly, stated to him that he had not in fact been "playing for years'.  That he hadn't applied any techiques or continuous practice and that it was not optional to dedicate time to the piano.  Now how pathetically obvious is that?  I have a 35 year old student who is a blast.  Played guitar all his life and is delving into the keyboard with enormous gusto.  The relationship between a student and teacher is a dance.  Sometimes, it's not a dance that suits you.  So be it.

[lagin]

I, personally would share my concerns with her in a truthful yet nice way.  "I'd like to improve on your technique so that it is easier and more enjoyable for you to play certain pieces, and since you're an adult student it will take a bit more time and effort than a flexible school kid.  But if you're willing to be patient and work with me, I have some ideas."  You might have to start her on a right hand C major, one octave scale, or even just one finger up and down at a time starting with the thumb to the pinky.  My new joke is that playing piano is all about the scales, chords, arpeggios, etc.  The songs are merely to entertain us while we develope technique.  Exaggerated, I know, but technique is so important if you want to play advanced pieces.  Maybe she doesn't ever want to play a fugue by Bach.  Maybe she just wants to have some fun.  I'd find out what her goals are and work from there one step at a time.  I just wouldn't have the heart to dismiss her, especially if she's willing to try.  If God dismissed me everytime I wasn't getting it, I'd be in big trouble!  If He can be sooo patient, then maybe I can, too.  The choice is up to you.  This is only what I would do.

[johnnypiano]

It's never a good idea to teach someone who is already having lessons with someone else.  It is confusing for the student and difficult for both teachers, who have their own methods.  It is also unprofessional.