Yuja Wang at Carnegie Hall 5/17/18

[dfrankjazz]

God so Loved the World He gave us Yuja Wang

Imagine a Phantasmagoric Superhuman Cosmically Sexually Exploding Cyborg visiting the Earth from 3,000,000 years in the future to show us a glimpse of what is to come in the distant future. This is Yuja Wang. What i just heard coming out of one human being in 2 hours cannot be described in words. If you want to have your world shattered see her. The programme was incredible, ALL modern. Where she is taking the music is breathtaking. During her Ligetti pieces it was like hearing the piano explode in a billion pieces. Indescribable, squeezing every possible nuance from each aspect of the music, 5 different parts happening at the same time. And she is 30ish. Forget it.

Really, the only thing you can think after seeing something like this is: God is Great! The creative force of the universe is so much more fantastic that we can ever imagine, a billion times grander than our capacity to imagine it. Everybody was saying God's name after the concert..now THATS a concert. She hit it out of the ballpark on Mars.

[beethovenfan01]

I WAS going to see her two weeks ago ...

Then she cancelled.

[xdjuicebox]

I don't know if I would consider Scriabin, Prokofiev, and Rachmaninoff to be modern...

I do love her enthusiasm for Ligeti though.

Glad you enjoyed the concert!

Her Walt Disney Concert Hall (I'm an LA Native) performance looks exciting though, wish I could go...Bartok 1!

[furiouzpianist]

she is phenomenal

[louispodesta]

I WAS going to see her two weeks ago ...

Then she cancelled.

The point is:

Where is Lang Lang?  Where is Lang Lang?

Guess what?  This Lady, (my speaking as a Philosopher with Feminist Credentials) has had to substitute (multiple performances) for Lang Lang's absence, due to his "Supposed" temporary injury.

And, it is some big surprise that:  due to her own Concert Schedule (plus his) that she is cancelling performances.

On point, Lang Lang is permanently injured, and the NY Times nor any one else has the "Guts" to tell the musical world that their "God" is dead!

[ignaceii]

Yuyu.
Ah.
The female classical Liberace.
Not my cup of tea.

The recitals must be virtuosic. Musicality ??

Do not listen to these shows.

By the way. No one can beat Cziffra when it comes to extreme virtuosic playing.

But listening to this makes me "throw up".

What is there message really to the world. I can play with my feet ??

[mjames]

Yuyu.
Ah.
The female classical Liberace.
Not my cup of tea.

The recitals must be virtuosic. Musicality ??

Do not listen to these shows.

By the way. No one can beat Cziffra when it comes to extreme virtuosic playing.

But listening to this makes me "throw up".

What is there message really to the world. I can play with my feet ??

It's incredible how pretty much all try-hard wannabe intellectuals say the exact same stupid sh*t.

[cuberdrift]

By the way. No one can beat Cziffra when it comes to extreme virtuosic playing.

Horowitz could match him.

[dfrankjazz]

The musicality of Yuja's performance was UNBELIEVABLE. The rhythmic, melodic,  touch etc. nuances and control were just off the charts. Her right hand was Art Tatum, and her left hand was Art Tatum. At no point did her other-worldly technique overshadow her other-worldly command of every nuance of the music she was playing.

[bronnestam]

The musicality of Yuja's performance was UNBELIEVABLE. The rhythmic, melodic,  touch etc. nuances and control were just off the charts. Her right hand was Art Tatum, and her left hand was Art Tatum. At no point did her other-worldly technique overshadow her other-worldly command of every nuance of the music she was playing.

I guess one could call you a huge fan ...     

[ahinton]

I don't know if I would consider Scriabin, Prokofiev, and Rachmaninoff to be modern...

I do love her enthusiasm for Ligeti though.

Glad you enjoyed the concert!

Her Walt Disney Concert Hall (I'm an LA Native) performance looks exciting though, wish I could go...Bartok 1!

No criticism of Yuja intended by so saying but the Ligeti études are hardly "modern" either!...

Best,

Alistair

[themeandvariation]

Hey Hint,
Not modern, huh? really?  … composed 1985 - 2001… what planet? 

[georgey]

Hey Hint,
Not modern, huh? really?  … composed 1985 - 2001… what planet?  

Sounds modern to my ears, for what that might be worth.  I consider these to be modern.

I will value ahinton'e opinion on this though if he can explain.

[ahinton]

Sounds modern to my ears, for what that might be worth.  I consider these to be modern.

I will value ahinton'e opinion on this though if he can explain.

Well, OK, not particularly modern, if you will (completed some 18 years ago by a now deceased composer).

An important contribution to the literature, though (by someone who, according to one of their performers, admired the 100 Transcendental Studies of Sorabji, although I don't know how he would have gotten hold of them).

Best,

Alistair

[georgey]

Well, OK, not particularly modern, if you will (completed some 18 years ago by a now deceased composer).

An important contribution to the literature, though (by someone who, according to one of their performers, admired the 100 Transcendental Studies of Sorabji, although I don't know how he would have gotten hold of them).

Best,

Alitair

I remember my music history teacher scolding me when I said in class that 2 musical events happened at the same time in the early 1400’s.  They actually happened 20 years apart.  I guess time is relative. 

I can see your very good point about the age of the composer.  He was born 1923, almost 100 years ago.  This would not be modern say compared to someone born 1980.  Look at 2 works written in 1895 for example:   One by old man Brahms and the other by Mahler or Strauss or Debussy.  

[themeandvariation]

I would posit that Mr Hinton is being provocative - (or a touch of compositional jealousy) and knows full well Ligeti is an icon of modernism itself.. and to dismiss of being 18 years old.. too funny.
Actually, modernism is a state of mind, and not bound to a date… (as many contemporary sound before Ligeti on the timeline). Mr Hinton does seem to enjoy the 'punk' movement, though.
 I wonder if Boulez - being now deceased -  is also insnared - and no longer 'modern' by Mr Hinton's description.  I believe the boundaries have been pushed to the extremes, and not much further for modernism to go in That direction…  (i.e.  Subotnick, Ferneyhough, Cecil Taylor,  Babbitt, Ayler, Partch, Stockhausen, … and so many others )  but perhaps a different sense 'polystylism' or some such thing will be the new modernism, or perhaps there are/will be many modernists movements at the same time…Who can say? Only history.

And besides, Mr Hinton, Sorabji - (Your mention) died in 1988!

[georgey]

I believe the boundaries have been pushed to the extremes, and not much further for modernism to go in That direction…  (i.e.  Subotnick, Ferneyhough, Cecil Taylor,  Babbitt, Ayler, Partch, Stockhausen, … and so many others )  but perhaps a different sense 'polystylism' or some such thing will be the new modernism, or perhaps there are/will be many modernists movements at the same time…Who can say? Only history.

And besides, Mr Hinton, Sorabji - (Your mention) died in 1988!

1) Good thoughts, but as you say: "Only history".

2) And Sorabji was born 1892!  My observation: One can determine roughly where a composer’s music falls on the musical development timeline (at least prior to the 20th century) based on their date of birth rather than the date of composition of a work or the date of death of a composer.  There are noteable exceptions, but a composer’s musical vocabulary is often mostly developed by the time they reach their late 20’s in age.

Edit:  I'm just saying that if I were given only 1 piece of information, I would pick a composer's date of birth, as opposed to date of compostion or date of death.

[themeandvariation]

Yes, but I must say that there are Many notable exceptions.. Schoenberg, Stravinsky, Picasso, …could even throw in Liszt, or Beethoven… or even Mozart seemed to be getting more interested in polyphonic … this generalization has too many holes, and they'll be no consensus on how to measure such a thing..

[georgey]

Yes, but I must say that there are Many notable exceptions.. Schoenberg, Stravinsky, Picasso, …could even throw in Liszt, or Beethoven… or even Mozart seemed to be getting more interested in polyphonic … this generalization has too many holes, and they'll be no consensus on how to measure such a thing..

I just read this after editing my prior post.  Agreed.  I knew my statement would rightfully be challenged!

[themeandvariation]

Well, as I too well know, it is easy to misstep on this Pandora's box.
Cheers!~ Georgey! (For now I must get back to my totally 'out of step' post-romantic (?) string quartet…

[ignaceii]

Some have something against my signature ? What signature.  My name. God Damn it. Stsy off.

And as for YuYu, ***...

Here.
Yuyu Wang versus Evgheni Bozhanov.
Imported from the east, no real competition references.  Vs.  All competition winner of prizes. Even managed to overrule the whole Chopin Rulling system. Old lady , having heard Michelangeli, said she never had heard anyone play Chopin since Michelangeli.
In this respect he is a Lucas Debargues. But even more.

Yuyu. Body expressions . Wow. Not musical. And kind off childish innocence.  Vs. Evgheni much hailed facial expressions, which I heapen to like.
But the child sells better.

So they throwed all round genius Bozhanov in the trashcan in favour of an eastern Tsunami of what, yes what ?

Same stupid intellectuallism , but underbuilt, mister Signature.

For me 1 Bozhanov for 100 Yuyus. And Langs, whose masterclass was more looking to the audience than to the student...

Our Record labels have made a big knee bow for the eastern money.
How stupid Mr Signature can these be.

I will plan a 1000 km trip to hear Evgheni hear in A Mini Disney hall.
Yes, the Disney venue suits YuYu... Cashing.

Bye China...

Oh, I doubt Horowitz could match Cziffra. Cziffra had a far larger repertoire. And played like a A. Hamelin today. Horowitz avoided Prokofievs concertos. Never understood why.
Musicality AND virtuosity is from the past. And some in these days, like Levitt, Bhozanov,... not many.

And write somerhing interesting Mr Signature. Or are you too stupid.😎😎

[ahinton]

I would posit that Mr Hinton is being provocative - (or a touch of compositional jealousy) and knows full well Ligeti is an icon of modernism itself.. and to dismiss of being 18 years old.. too funny.

Provocative? No, not really.

Compositional jealousy? Why? I don't do jealousy anyway!

Ligeti an "icon of modernism"? Well, he's certainly an important 20th/21st century composer - but you rightly imply the difference between "modern" (in terms of the date range within which something has taken place) and "modernism" (which has more to do with manner and matter of the material concerned). Ligeti's piano studies are in many ways études in the manner of Chopin, Liszt, Alkan, &c. but his musical language is very much of his own time.

"Actually, modernism is a state of mind, and not bound to a date" Quite right! Consider Varèse, Vermeulen et al almost a century ago - or some of the work of Ornstein - or even certain late works of Liszt.

"Mr Hinton does seem to enjoy the 'punk' movement, though"? What's that to do with the price of fish? And from what source did you get such an idea?

You "wonder if Boulez - being now deceased -  is also insnared - and no longer 'modern' by Mr Hinton's description.  I believe the boundaries have been pushed to the extremes, and not much further for modernism to go in That direction…  (i.e.  Subotnick, Ferneyhough, Cecil Taylor,  Babbitt, Ayler, Partch, Stockhausen, … and so many others )  but perhaps a different sense 'polystylism' or some such thing will be the new modernism, or perhaps there are/will be many modernists movements at the same time…Who can say? Only history.". Good points. "Modernism"'s biggest problem is in being yet another "ism". As Sorabji once noted, the problem with certain music (or fashion, or indeed pretty much anything else) being "oh so modern" is that it will almost certainly be "oh so passé" next week. Medtner's book The Muse and the Fashion may seem a little hectoring in favour of past values but he was a great composer and the very title of the book points up this problem - and, susprising as it might seem, Medtner was in his early days thought of as a very "modern" composer by some of his colleagues and compatriots! Yes, Sorabji died almost 30 years ago but I made no claim for him as either a "modern" or a "modernist" composer and he'd have hated the very idea of either, even though his early works seemed entirely out of step with most of what was being written in England in the late 1910s, 1920s and 1930s.

The principal issue here is that, for some time now, we have been living through and age in which Ferneyhough, Lachenmann, Barrett and others work contemporaneously with Pärt, Messiaen, Schnittke, (David) Matthews, &c., so there is indeed a sense of "polystylism" not only with the works of individual composers such as Schnittke but a vast range of styles between composers - and this is not new. You mention Boulez and Stockhausen, who worked contemporaneously with Rubbra, Shostakovich, Dutilleux, (Malcolm) Arnold, (Robert) Simpson and so on. In other words, we live in an age where, at least in terms of sheer variety and contrast, it's as impossible to say with certainty s it is to try to do so which aspect of musical creativity is "modern(ist)", as you yourself appear to posit. One outcome of this is that it no longer matters whether a composer is fashionable, radical or whatever else; all that matters is the music itself, which is indeed as it should be.

Best,

Alistair

[mjames]

Some have something against my signature ? What signature.  My name. God Damn it. Stsy off.

And as for YuYu, ***...

Here.
Yuyu Wang versus Evgheni Bozhanov.
Imported from the east, no real competition references.  Vs.  All competition winner of prizes. Even managed to overrule the whole Chopin Rulling system. Old lady , having heard Michelangeli, said she never had heard anyone play Chopin since Michelangeli.
In this respect he is a Lucas Debargues. But even more.

Yuyu. Body expressions . Wow. Not musical. And kind off childish innocence.  Vs. Evgheni much hailed facial expressions, which I heapen to like.
But the child sells better.

So they throwed all round genius Bozhanov in the trashcan in favour of an eastern Tsunami of what, yes what ?

Same stupid intellectuallism , but underbuilt, mister Signature.

For me 1 Bozhanov for 100 Yuyus. And Langs, whose masterclass was more looking to the audience than to the student...

Our Record labels have made a big knee bow for the eastern money.
How stupid Mr Signature can these be.

I will plan a 1000 km trip to hear Evgheni hear in A Mini Disney hall.
Yes, the Disney venue suits YuYu... Cashing.

Bye China...

Oh, I doubt Horowitz could match Cziffra. Cziffra had a far larger repertoire. And played like a A. Hamelin today. Horowitz avoided Prokofievs concertos. Never understood why.
Musicality AND virtuosity is from the past. And some in these days, like Levitt, Bhozanov,... not many.

And write somerhing interesting Mr Signature. Or are you too stupid.😎😎

Are you mentally retarded?

[themeandvariation]

"In other words, we live in an age where, at least in terms of sheer variety and contrast, is perhaps the only aspect of musical creativity that is "modern(ist)", as you yourself posit. One outcome of this is that it no longer matters whether a composer is fashionable, radical or whatever else; all that matters is the music itslef, which is indeed as it should be.
Best, Alistair."
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.. I agree with your characterization..

ps..i guess your questioning of 'modern' as it relates (or not) to Ligeti - is what opened a query into the definition itself.. I do see it as  broad term, that is mostly un-descriptive  beyond a most general sense.

[ahinton]

Are you mentally retarded?

The point of asking anyone who writes like this rather eludes me, in the sense that the question appears to answer itself...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

"In other words, we live in an age where, at least in terms of sheer variety and contrast, is perhaps the only aspect of musical creativity that is "modern(ist)", as you yourself posit. One outcome of this is that it no longer matters whether a composer is fashionable, radical or whatever else; all that matters is the music itslef, which is indeed as it should be.
Best, Alistair."
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.. I agree with your characterization..

ps..i guess your questioning of 'modern' as it relates (or not) to Ligeti - is what opened a query into the definition itself.. I do see it as  broad term, that is mostly un-descriptive  beyond a most general sense.

Please note that I edited my post in the hope of eliminating what I re-read as inadequate expressions...

Best,

Alistair

[georgey]

Please note that I edited my post in the hope of eliminating what I re-read as inadequate expressions...

Best,

Alistair

Thank you for your fine thoughts.  Great thought: “One outcome of this is that it no longer matters whether a composer is fashionable, radical or whatever else; all that matters is the music itself, which is indeed as it should be.”  I just want to add a couple missed giants so far in this thread just for the sake of completeness: Hindemith, Bartok and 2 other Viennese atonalists Berg and Webern.

[outin]

Are you mentally retarded?

Probably just literacy deficient.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Since you guys are talking about ligeti...

Ima just leave this here

[cuberdrift]

Oh, I doubt Horowitz could match Cziffra. Cziffra had a far larger repertoire. And played like a A. Hamelin today. Horowitz avoided Prokofievs concertos. Never understood why.

But you were talking about "extreme virtuosic playing", not about how big their repertoire is. Horowitz can play as "virtuosic" as Cziffra does, I believe.