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Beethoven Appassionata, advice needed (Read 895 times)

Offline guilleferra

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Beethoven Appassionata, advice needed
« on: May 20, 2018, 08:18:39 PM »
Does anybody can answer the two following doubts about correct reading?
1)why in the attached passage, in bar n. 105 the last two A moll in the left hand are legato? If that was played literally the last A moll in the bar shoud not sound, but this is not the correct interpretation.
Shoudn't it be more precise the notation I enclose in the 2nd file?

2)in the same bar, the first two A moll have the indication of a crotchet, however, if all notes in the group have to be legato, their duration has to be a bit lower (otherwise it is impossible to "legate" the G with the following A moll). Is this correct?
Thanks for any advice and comment.

Piano Street's Digital Sheet Music Library

Beethoven: Sonata 23 (Appassionata), opus 57
piano sheet music of Sonata 23 (Appassionata)


Offline guilleferra

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata, advice needed
«Reply #1 on: May 23, 2018, 11:12:41 AM »
The same post but with the missing attachment, sorry for that.
I hope to get some answer now.
Thanks to all.

***************
Does anybody can answer the two following doubts about correct reading?
1)why in the attached passage, in bar n. 105 the last two A moll in the left hand are legato? If that was played literally the last A moll in the bar shoud not sound, but this is not the correct interpretation.
Shoudn't it be more precise the notation I enclose in the 2nd file?

2)in the same bar, the first two A moll have the indication of a crotchet, however, if all notes in the group have to be legato, their duration has to be a bit lower (otherwise it is impossible to "legate" the G with the following A moll). Is this correct?
Thanks for any advice and comment.

Offline bronnestam

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata, advice needed
«Reply #2 on: May 30, 2018, 10:04:28 AM »
Where do you find the interpretation that the semiquaver should not be linked with the dotted half-note? I have not played this movement myself but I cannot recall that the bass rhythm should be taa-taa-ta-taaaaa, but rather taa-taa-taaaaaa   (Silly expression, I know.)

I don't know what a crotchet is, but according to the note sheet, indeed you should play the A flat (I think you confuse many readers here by writing a moll, the right word is A flat here) despite that the "main beat" lies still. Of course this sounds impossible, but when you practice, you will probably omit the underlying accompaniment first and just play the A flats that are the heavy beat in this bar. The rest is, as my teacher like to say, "just decoration". It should be heard in the background, sort of. So first you play the third A flat in the bar, which is a semiquaver, quite firmly and with the pedal down. Then you keep holding the pedal down and play the note again but much lighter, as a part of that underlying accompaniment. So I see it is a combination of different dynamics and pedal work.

At least I THINK you can hold the pedal during this bar, but I have not tried yet. Someone who knows how to play this piece can take over now, please. I am only guessing here, but according to my teacher, on a similar case we discussed, you do like I described.

Offline guilleferra

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata, advice needed
«Reply #3 on: May 30, 2018, 04:11:21 PM »
Thank you for answering bronnestam and sorry for my english, which is not my mothertongue. I have been studying it to be more accurate in this post.
Nevertheless, regarding my point:

in bar 105, the last two A flat are tied (see the enclosed standard score pls), so it means that you do not have to play again the last one but that it is the continuation of the previous one. However, the last A flat (length of dotted half note) is actually written with another (but simultaneous) A flat of the lenght of an 8th note, so it must be played in the triplet G flat-A flat-G flat (and that is what all great interpreters do, so that is why I said it is the "correct" interpretation). But those 2 statements are in contrast: the last A flat (unison of the dotted half note and the 8th note) may or maynot be played, but not both.
This is why I think my proposed notation is more clear and "stuck" to what it has to be played. If I interpreted correctly your reply, in the end, you should agree with this.
It is interesting to note that this prolblem does not subsist in following triplets where the A flat dotted half note is played simultaneously with an 8th note but of other pitch)
Thanks anyway for your reply, it has been enlightening for me!
Would be nice if any otherone may add something to the issue. Bye

Offline xdjuicebox

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata, advice needed
«Reply #4 on: June 09, 2018, 09:15:45 PM »
You play it again

Imagine two singers going back and forth (or two bassoons); it's written like that so you play it like that. But in practice, you actually have to play the Ab again, but definitely try to "shape" the line so that it sounds like two singers are passing the phrase between each other
I am trying to become Franz Liszt. Trying. And failing.