Chopin - What is "good" Chopin?

[soultrap]

So, here is the question:

What is "Good" Chopin?
Everyone have their own interpretations of a single piece. Let's take Chopin's Ballade No.4 as an example. There are countless recordings out there. What is it that makes one person's interpretation, so called, "better" than the other? Is it plainly the accuracy, and the taste of the listener?

I understand that it is a very complicated question to answer. I wanted to hear your opinion on, what makes one recording stand out to you as "better" than the others?

[outin]

Definitely a matter of taste...some like Rubinstein while I don't...

Generally the best way to ruin Chopin imo is too much pedal and too much sentimentality...

[mjames]

Definitely a matter of taste...some like Rubinstein while I don't...

Generally the best way to ruin Chopin imo is too much pedal and too much sentimentality...

#Gatekeepers of Chopin: "Real Chopin playing is retrained, too much sentimentality is bad! Also careful on the pedal!!!!!!"

Meanwhile one of the most recognized interpreters are Cortot, Argerich, and Sofrotnisky. All of whom enjoyed to pedal and sentimentalize the crap out of Chopin.

inb4 maybe that's why i don't like them
if you don't your taste is wrong.

[outin]

#Gatekeepers of Chopin: "Real Chopin playing is retrained, too much sentimentality is bad! Also careful on the pedal!!!!!!"

Meanwhile one of the most recognized interpreters are Cortot, Argerich, and Sofrotnisky. All of whom enjoyed to pedal and sentimentalize the crap out of Chopin.

inb4 maybe that's why i don't like them
if you don't your taste is wrong.

Don't really like the first two either...have to go back to listen to Sofronitsky.

Since my taste is always right, then yours must be wrong...

[mjames]

lmao if you don't like cortot you don't like piano or chopin's music, period.

[outin]

lmao if you don't like cortot you don't like piano or chopin's music, period.

The recordings are just not very good. He was probably better live.

BTW. Sofronitsky isn't much to my taste either...

[outin]

I'm curious mjames... which recording of the ballad op 52 do you like better, Cortot's or Friedman's? I'm sure both are in YT...

[_piano_angel]

For me it's ''good'', if you want to keep listening to a piece, that you've already heard hundreds of times and when you feel like time has stopped and you're in another world while listening.
That doesn't only apply to Chopin's music but to music in general and I wouldn't say that a performance, which is not like that isn't ''good'', but just maybe not as ''good'' as it could be.
I'm not sure if this can be understood but I guess that's just my opinion

[visitor]

good Chopin is generally less than 3 minutes long, beyond d that it's just gets boring and that's assuming it's one of the less boring works to begin with.

[outin]

good Chopin is generally less than 3 minutes long, beyond d that it's just gets boring and that's assuming it's one of the less boring works to begin with.

Talk about unpopular opinions 

Generally I am inclined to agree with you these days, but there are a few pianists who can still make these pieces interesting to me...

[mjames]

good Chopin is generally less than 3 minutes long, beyond d that it's just gets boring and that's assuming it's one of the less boring works to begin with.

this is like saying you don't enjoy studying Maxwell's equations but you love physics anyways

If you don't love the highest/best and purest representation of the field then you probably don't like it anyways

Hipster pianists so mad they're struggling to find a better composer than Chopin

I'm curious mjames... which recording of the ballad op 52 do you like better, Cortot's or Friedman's? I'm sure both are in YT...

they're both really good and have their own quirks. it's exactly the kind of playing I love: non-sterile, exaggerating, exploiting the piano's capabilities and so on.

Although Friedmann's a bit too unnecessarily messy sometimes. Cortot is just in his own world 

[mjames]

Fun fact "Chopin haters" or [insert any popular composer here] usually dislike him not because they don't think the music's of high quality, it's because they've listened to them 500000000000000000000 times.

Here's a secret: stop listening to 50000 people play the same piece and you'll never get tired of the "popular" composers. I rarely listen to music i know these days and it works wonders with keeping them fresh and interesting. That's right, I don't listen to Chopin lol.

(only on occasion)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

How can you not like this?? FREAKING POETRY MAN. CORTOT IS THE MAN.

Nvm after listening to it again Cortot>>>>>>>>Friedmann
Friedmann's still ight tho.

[mjames]

To answer OP's question the "academic" answer is the opposite of Cortot: not melodramatic, no extensive rubato, little pedal, and emotionally restrained. Just listen to Rubinstein's late recordings (his earlier ones were blasphemy  ) or any Chopin competition contestant.

[georgey]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

How can you not like this?? FREAKING POETRY MAN. CORTOT IS THE MAN.

When poet meets poet – poetry^2

[mjames]

His phrasing omg, the hesitation and delays uggggghhh 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍

I promised myself I wouldn't play any Chopin for a few months and now......!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Cortot, Friedman and Francois for me.

[visitor]

Fun fact "Chopin haters" or [insert any popular composer here] usually dislike him not because they don't think the music's of high quality, it's because they've listened to them 500000000000000000000 times.

Here's a secret: stop listening to 50000 people play the same piece and you'll never get tired of the "popular" composers. I rarely listen to music i know these days and it works wonders with keeping them fresh and interesting. That's right, I don't listen to Chopin lol.

(only on occasion)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

How can you not like this?? FREAKING POETRY MAN. CORTOT IS THE MAN.

Nvm after listening to it again Cortot>>>>>>>>Friedmann
Friedmann's still ight tho.

lol who's hating? I specifically acknowledged there's good Chopin out there and I do like some. I just do see or enjoy it in large quantities or view it as the be all end all of good writing and pinnacle of music for our instrument.
I've specifically said multiple times in past I love the mazurka as a whole a lot and I think they're his best music , and the preludes too. a few etudes and bits and chunks of larger scale works. ie tjlhe first ballade, intro is dope and the code too, the middle 40 percent or so, not so much
the trio, that one is jiggy,  has great replace value , as does the cello sonata


and I do have a favorite piece, that little a major half page prelude is one of the most perfect little under 1 minute pieces ever .

[mjames]

lol who's hating? I specifically acknowledged there's good Chopin out there and I do like some. I just do see or enjoy it in large quantities or view it as the be all end all of good writing and pinnacle of music for our instrument.
I've specifically said multiple times in past I love the mazurka as a whole a lot and I think they're his best music , and the preludes too. a few etudes and bits and chunks of larger scale works. ie tjlhe first ballade, intro is dope and the code too, the middle 40 percent or so, not so much
the trio, that one is jiggy,  has great replace value , as does the cello sonata


and I do have a favorite piece, that little a major half page prelude is one of the most perfect little under 1 minute pieces ever .

 

"Chopin's only good if its less than 3mins long" is definitely not praise, especially when you have a history of hating on "popular" composers.

Sonata no. 3, 4th ballade, grand polonaise, the rondos, scherzi, barcarolle, polonaises...aren't "good" lol

Okay.

[visitor]

"Chopin's only good if its less than 3mins long" is definitely not praise, especially when you have a history of hating on "popular" composers.

Sonata no. 3, 4th ballade, grand polonaise, the rondos, scherzi, barcarolle, polonaises...aren't "good" lol

Okay.8

its praise for shorter works lol
I like Beethoven,  Bach a lot, Mozart a lot too. Chopin it's dicey , mazurkas as a whole are dope. I'll pass on concertos, nocturnes and sonatas and ballads, well tno 4 in capable hands can be greater are those rare slap your momma good performances .  This  too, w right pianists like Trifinov and Babayan, is tight, op 73 posth.

I'm still on the fence for the allegro de concert, some days I like it some days I feel like it drags on, like it could be an effective piece at half it's length

[mjames]

 

Imagine passing on the b minor sonata or the barcarolle...

Will praise Hummel concertos and thalberg but will crap on grand polonaise brillante or the concerti. lmao I don't understand you guys at all

[visitor]

Imagine passing on the b minor sonata or the barcarolle...

Will praise Hummel concertos and thalberg but will crap on grand polonaise brillante or the concerti. lmao I don't understand you guys at all

great composers had bad days , the Tchaikovsky sonata, and parts of what could have been epic concert  fantasia can attest as much. Similar w the Grieg sonata, lots of examples in the literature of greatness embodied producing a turd of a work

I should like more Chopin than I do, but I listen and my mind wanders...what the heck was going on w him, did he have allergies or may e had diarrhea that day and kept,having to runto the bathroom...Was he crushing on someone that friendzoned him amd he was feeling sorry for himself....

Btw many of my most top composers on my hot list were strongly influenced at one time by Chopin,  Bortkiewicz ,  Scriabin,  so no chopin...no Bortkiewicz concerto 1....tragic, no Scriabin preludes or eventually op 28 fantasie....the horror!
🤤

[mjames]

great composers had bad days , the Tchaikovsky sonata, and parts of what could have been epic concert  fantasia can attest as much. Similar w the Grieg sonata, lots of examples in the literature of greatness embodied producing a turd of a work

The sonata no.3, barcarolle, ballades, scherzi are hardly "turds" or "bad days" though, they're the pinnacle of his music.  

[visitor]

The sonata no.3, barcarolle, ballades, scherzi are hardly "turds" or "bad days" though, they're the pinnacle of his music.  

I'll pull scores and read through parts of them again over the coming year or two and look for some especially fine recordings , they may eventuakly will grow on me. Unlike Schumann, I don't think ill ever like Most of his stuff

[mjames]

you don't have to re-read them, we're all entitled to our opinions

However wrong they might be