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How do you exercise jumps ? (Read 1193 times)

Offline alextrp7

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How do you exercise jumps ?
« on: June 24, 2018, 11:20:56 AM »
In the case of a single note on the left followed by a chord at a far distance at right. Today I thought about starting by pressing the chord first, observing the position of the hand, then jump to the root note. This way, it is a lot easier of course.
Do you think it will grow up in the muscle memory the same way as if learned in the right order ?

What is your tricks to efficiently exercise long jumps ?

Offline dogperson

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #1 on: June 24, 2018, 01:16:31 PM »
duplicate


Offline dogperson

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #2 on: June 24, 2018, 01:44:49 PM »
Iím not so sure that working this backwards will be of benefit, as you would be training your hand to go from a pre-defined hand position to a single note.


Start out very slowly by playing the bass note, getting your hand in position for the chord as soon as you play the bass note.  Keep your hand in the chord position and move your hand in a low horizontal position.  repeat slowly.  a reminder that you need to decide on the fingering for the chord  early and never change it

If you want to practice going from the chord to the note, make the complete circuit: chord, note, back to chord.

Offline mjames

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #3 on: June 24, 2018, 03:49:54 PM »
It's a really basic skill man, just practice it as you normally would and you'll be doing it subconsciously in no time.

Offline alextrp7

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #4 on: June 24, 2018, 04:15:36 PM »
If you want to practice going from the chord to the note, make the complete circuit: chord, note, back to chord.

Good point.

When you mention to keep the chord in the hand while moving horizontally, I'm not sure what to think about it. When playing the piano, I am used to release any tension when my hands are above 2 or 3cm from the keyboard. I set my fingers in position just before depressing the keys.
The distance from the 2 locations is of course the same in the 2 ways, so I was thinking this at least could be memorized playing backward or forward.

I should really give it a few days to see if it helps. ...

Offline visitor

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 05:39:52 PM »
no doesnt work that way, the neural pathways and muscles used to initiate a movement in one direction are different
[because the opposite motion uses different primary movers ie different muscles] vs those to do a movement on reverse
this is one of the reasons running backwards fast does nothing to really make you a better faster running in fwd motion w caveat of correction of overuse issues

also even w the same movement , context matters , this is why coaches that have tried to have their soccer players practice w weighted balls dont get the results they want in terms of better agility and and fine motor control of the ball when they go back to a std soccer ball

the adaptive response  is stimulus specific so if you want to get better at said chord jump you practice the chord jump since you wa t an adaptation response to the stimulus of learning said movement at greater control and
 speeds

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #6 on: June 24, 2018, 08:14:51 PM »
If it's a chord followed by a single note think of it as s down up motion instead of a side to side motion.  Down being on the chord and up being on the single note

Speed and stuff will come in time
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Offline louispodesta

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #7 on: June 24, 2018, 11:18:13 PM »
no doesnt work that way, the neural pathways and muscles used to initiate a movement in one direction are different
[because the opposite motion uses different primary movers ie different muscles] vs those to do a movement on reverse
this is one of the reasons running backwards fast does nothing to really make you a better faster running in fwd motion w caveat of correction of overuse issues

also even w the same movement , context matters , this is why coaches that have tried to have their soccer players practice w weighted balls dont get the results they want in terms of better agility and and fine motor control of the ball when they go back to a std soccer ball

the adaptive response  is stimulus specific so if you want to get better at said chord jump you practice the chord jump since you wa t an adaptation response to the stimulus of learning said movement at greater control and
 speeds
For once, the "Phony" (Visitor) Website posters are Correct /Rightly!

It is all a matter of context based on a given phrase and/or a particular passage/Period.  That is in my opinion.


Offline ted

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #8 on: June 25, 2018, 03:22:01 AM »
It's a really basic skill man, just practice it as you normally would and you'll be doing it subconsciously in no time.

I think so too, if I were a beginner I think I would find all this analysis unproductive. It is a particularly simple motion after all. When I used to play a lot of ragtime and stride I used to practise such left hand patterns while increasing the jump by one note at a time; any chord at the top would do. It usually involved octaves or tenths though, which for some reason I find easier than single notes.
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Offline adodd81802

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #9 on: June 25, 2018, 09:17:08 AM »
I have no problem with the jumps, enjoying pieces like Waltzes and rags, however the most practical advice I have seen is "jump fast, play slow"

That is, practice in a slow tempo but complete your jumps as fast as if you were playing full tempo, so that your hands are by the notes way before you need to actually press them, giving yourself plenty time to find the right notes if you jump a little too far or too close.

Practice your jumps a little slower to give your brain time to understand the distance you're wanting to travel.

I don't personally think there's benefit to doing it your way.
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Offline alextrp7

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #10 on: June 26, 2018, 09:41:30 AM »
no doesnt work that way, the neural pathways and muscles used to initiate a movement in one direction are different
[because the opposite motion uses different primary movers ie different muscles] vs those to do a movement on reverse
this is one of the reasons running backwards fast does nothing to really make you a better faster running in fwd motion w caveat of correction of overuse issues

also even w the same movement , context matters , this is why coaches that have tried to have their soccer players practice w weighted balls dont get the results they want in terms of better agility and and fine motor control of the ball when they go back to a std soccer ball

the adaptive response  is stimulus specific so if you want to get better at said chord jump you practice the chord jump since you wa t an adaptation response to the stimulus of learning said movement at greater control and
 speeds

I allays love this kind of stuff a lot. Thanks for the great contribution. Neuroscience is so interesting and it is at the root of everything. I understand that the things involved forward and backward may not be the same though I thought the distance and position of the hands could be memorized this way ... it seems that no :)

Quote
I have no problem with the jumps, enjoying pieces like Waltzes and rags, however the most practical advice I have seen is "jump fast, play slow"

That is, practice in a slow tempo but complete your jumps as fast as if you were playing full tempo, so that your hands are by the notes way before you need to actually press them, giving yourself plenty time to find the right notes if you jump a little too far or too close.

Practice your jumps a little slower to give your brain time to understand the distance you're wanting to travel.

I don't personally think there's benefit to doing it your way.

That's exactly how I do it. Once a note or a chord is played, I go immediately to the next one, or at least I think I do this every time. So there is no hurry when it's time to press it, I'm here already.

Offline dorfmouse

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #11 on: July 04, 2018, 08:22:10 AM »
Graham Fitch is the go-to man on this, and so much more:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yDtX4LO7NZU

Watch both part 1 and 2.
"I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams."
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Offline dorfmouse

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Re: How do you exercise jumps ?
«Reply #12 on: July 04, 2018, 08:52:12 AM »
Here is a written description of the two main techniques demonstrated in the videos, Quick Cover and Springboarding, this time applied within the context of practising a Chopin waltz.

https://practisingthepiano.com/leaps-of-faith-on-practising-waltzes/
"I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams."
W.B. Yeats