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Appoggiatura in Mozart Sonata no. 8 in A minor K310 (Read 1324 times)

Offline leo_t7

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Appoggiatura in Mozart Sonata no. 8 in A minor K310
« on: September 01, 2018, 05:59:17 PM »
I am currently working on Mozart's Piano Sonata in A Minor, and have been wondering how to play the appoggiaturas in the minor theme, particularly the second one (first appoggiatura of second bar).



Some performances I've listened to play it as two eighth notes (i.e. Uchida, Pires, Schiff, etc.) while some play the ornament as a sixteenth note (i.e. Perahia, Debargue, Brendel, etc.)

While I personally prefer the latter interpretation, two teachers I've had told me it should be played the former way because they say an appoggiatura takes half the time of the following note.

This leaves me with two questions: (1) Why, then, do so many pianists interpret it "incorrectly" as my teachers would have me believe; and (2) Why, then, is the first appoggiatura never played "correctly?"

I understand that, to some extent, the pianist should play whatever sounds right to him or her, but I was hoping to take away from this post a more thorough understanding of ornamentation, as well as a justification to my teacher as to why I prefer the second interpretation, beyond, simply "because I like it."  :)
Working on:
Beethoven - Piano Concerto no. 3 in C Minor
Busoni - Fantasia after J. S. Bach
Prokofiev - Piano Sonata no. 7

Offline _piano_angel

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Re: Appoggiatura in Mozart Sonata no. 8 in A minor K310
«Reply #1 on: September 02, 2018, 12:55:18 PM »
I really think it's just up to your personal taste. In my case I play the first ornament as a sixteenth note and the second one in bar two as two eighth notes . That's how my teacher taught me but I've also heard people play it differently ;D The ornamentation in Mozart is a little bit hard to understand imo because depending on the pianist one plays it that way the other this way . I would just try to convince your teacher that it works better the way you like it with the kind of interpretation you are going for.
Learning:
Chopin etudes: 10/1, 10/2, 10/4
Messiaen vingt regards No.2
Beethoven sonata op.7
Schumann Abegg variations

Offline thirtytwo2020

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Re: Appoggiatura in Mozart Sonata no. 8 in A minor K310
«Reply #2 on: September 04, 2018, 09:20:19 AM »
I'm no expert on ornamentation, but I have thought about the same problem and tried to do some research. So far, I think one has to recognize the fact that no set of rules can cover every situation. Personally,  I think I lean towards your teacher's (and Uchida's, Pires', Schiff's...) view.

But if you want to start a discussion with your teacher, you could always question his/her statement that an appoggiatura always takes half the time of the main note. It's easy to prove that there are such things as 'short appoggiaturas' (google it and you'll be stuck reading for the next decade or two ::)) CPE Bach, among others, described them in writing, Mozart belonged to the same sphere, and as you rightly point out, the grace note in bar 1 is never given the value of an eighth note.

Please tell me about your findings, I would also like to take away from this thread a more thorough understanding of these things!

Offline rmbarbosa

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Re: Appoggiatura in Mozart Sonata no. 8 in A minor K310
«Reply #3 on: September 11, 2018, 08:31:02 PM »
IMHO, 2 eight notes, because there is no small trace cutting the stem of the note