One brilliant thing about Hanon!

[maxim3]

[This post concerns intermediate level. Anti-Hanon people, please ignore this thread entirely, your point of view is extensively covered elsewhere and I don't need the whole lecture again, ok?]

Many of the Hanon exercises can be learned VERY quickly in C major. Because they are so simple, they can be easily transposed to any other key that the player knows well. So a little Hanon goes a LONG way in very little time.

But many other technical exercises take much longer to learn, and much longer to transpose, unless you have instant-transpose-anything-at-sight skills.

So, I would like to hear your suggestions of valuable exercises which are QUICKEST TO LEARN AND TRANSPOSE -- even though they may be difficult to PERFORM.

Here are some of my own time-saving-related findings:

FINGER INDEPENDENCE:
- Isidor Philipp's 'Exercises for Independence of the Fingers' are ONLY based on the diminished 7th chords, so if you already know those chords well, you can learn each new exercise relatively quickly.

- Many of Dohnanyi’s exercises were cleverly designed to be quickly and easily transferable to all keys. Of course they are hard to DO safely and properly; but at least they are easy to UNDERSTAND.

HANON / SCHMITT 'five-finger' type exercises:
Schmitt does much the same thing as Hanon: he gives a number of simple patterns which are to be transposed to 'all keys.' If you know all your scales very very well, you save time. Some people feel that Schmitt is in some ways superior to Hanon.

THUMB-CROSSING:
Both Schmitt and Hanon have thumb-crossing exercises that can be learned and transposed to all keys very quickly.

PISCHNA:
The 60 'daily exercises' of Pischna include many which are easy to learn and transpose (but difficult to do!). There are also some exercises which I find very time-consuming to transpose, so for now, I ignore them.

EXTENSION / STRETCHING:
Philipp's 'Exercises in Extension for the Fingers' are all based on a single 16-bar pattern of chords:
I - vii6 - I6 - IV - iii6 - vi - V6 - I. So if you are at the stage where you can instantly play that sequence in broken chords in any key, you can jump right into any of these exercises.

[adodd81802]

Being easy doesn't make it brilliant. Most of the time when referring to Hanon we're talking about the first 20 exercises which most people drill out for a month or so, get bored and realise it's probably not the best method to improve their playing. I would think his other 40 exercises are probably more valuable

EDIT 37-60 potentially. so 23 exercsises

than the first 20 for any competent pianist, and even then do not require to be drilled out in succession.

I've played Hanon, a lot of it, and can't deny that, presuming you play correctly and make the most of the exercises (rhythms and transposition) you can make some benefit of it. I still found that I hit brick walls however, whether this is down to the time I was willing to put in, or a faulty technique that I applied.

BUT... here's my overall thoughts.

If you transpose Twinkle Twinkle little star, play it backwards, all keys, staccato, Legato, with crescendos and at twice the tempo

What you're left with is someone that can play Twinkle Twinkle damn well.

That's not to say you won't then be able to play some pieces around that level easier than having not practised Twinkle Twinkle in this way, but it sure won't really be preparing you for Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody.

Your practice schedule should reflect your playing ability and your goals. If you're grade 2 and have a weak 4th and 5th.. there could be SOME benefit to SOME Hanon exercises.

If you're grade 8 and practising Bach, BURN HANON, BURN IT WITH FIRE.

I have found the best benefit of improving has been taking the piece you're learning apart and turn it into exercises.

Using dotted rhythms, tempo changes and staccato playing.

I think this inadvertently creates exercises specific to what you are trying to improve and that are around or just above your current level of playing, and so aren't too difficult to master, and still make you think actively about the exercises you are doing.

Sometimes you can take the piece literally and break it down, or you can create or find exercises that match the skill you are trying to improve. In which case you will then find yourself referring to some of these exercises that you have spoken about.

A generalised thought is that different styles of music generally require different techniques and different abilities. I can convincingly play Chopin at grade 8 for example, But Bach at grade 8? I sound like an amateur.  I have little interest in his music, or the technique required to play it.

So with that in mind, why would you do 1000 different general exercises if i you was ever really only going to make use of say 400 of them, and in the additional spare time could have learnt some pieces as well, instead of just mastering exercises.

Interested in your thoughts

[visitor]

the most brilliant thing about Hanon...
it's super boring and its benefit as ROI for time and effort invested is little so when the exercises are ignored,  one doest miss out on much so its awesome that we dont feel any real loss when we devote ourselves to more worthwhile activities and methods for technical and musical development

[maxim3]

To adodd81802:

I believe in the value of technical exercises, I'm at the stage where I need them, and I enjoy playing Hanon. Thanks for your response.

[lostinidlewonder]

Your title implies you want to talk about Hanon but then you go ahead and add others to the pot. I see that exercises can help beginners/intermediates most: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.0

Some might mindlessly do all of these exercises in all sorts of keys as a security blanket, that if they can manage to do it it will improve them. However once you start learning actual pieces you may find coordination issues between two hands stump you and all your exercises didn't really help in that department as well as many others!

Exercises seem attractive place to devote your energy to, everything is all organised for you, you don't have to know about repertoire and choose from the crazy amount of pieces out there but one really does need to explore the repertoire and organise their path through it all.

[maxim3]

Your title implies you want to talk about Hanon but then you go ahead and add others to the pot.

I apologize for not making my writing simpler for those who struggle with English. I beg you to take time to read my original POST, not just the TITLE. Then you might understand. "La carte n'est pas le territoire."

Thank you for reply, it is nice to hear from a fellow believer in Hanon. I am now reading the thread that you linked.

[lostinidlewonder]

I apologize for not making my writing simpler for those who struggle with English.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here and I don't see what you have defined as "One brillinat thing" about Hanon elaborated upon sufficiently.

I beg you to take time to read my original POST, not just the TITLE. Then you might understand. "La carte n'est pas le territoire."

I read your entire post and dont feel like I learned French.

Thank you for reply, it is nice to hear from a fellow believer in Hanon. I am now reading the thread that you linked.

No problems. I treat it differently from you, I don't see much value in transposition of exercises or delving deeply into hundreds of excerises.

[adodd81802]

To adodd81802:

I believe in the value of technical exercises, I'm at the stage where I need them, and I enjoy playing Hanon. Thanks for your response.

Have you considered just learning some Czerny instead? He composed many progressive pieces that even the most novice of pianist can sight read at first?

I'm not sure if you are receiving professional lessons or just self teaching but as I explained before, you'd take more value out of making exercises from pieces you are learning rather than spending the next 1-2 years mastering Hanon to have nothing to show for it but Hanon.

At least start learning a piece that you enjoy (at your level) and find out where your weak areas are first and then look for exercises to improve them.

You don't train a football player for all positions of the field.

[mjames]

the most brilliant thing about Hanon...
it's super boring and its benefit as ROI for time and effort invested is little so when the exercises are ignored,  one doest miss out on much so its awesome that we dont feel any real loss when we devote ourselves to more worthwhile activities and methods for technical and musical development

preach preach

brothas be like "hanon is good for finger independence"

or you can just play bach and scarlatt, or any other piece that requires finger independence  lol  

exercises are such a waste of time...

[adodd81802]

exercises are such a waste of time...

Bold statement my friend! And I can somewhat agree with you.

But then what are scales? Arpeggios? Most still swear by these.

And what is rhythmic and dynamic practice?

I think exercises are fundamentally wrongly applied by amateur / hobby pianists who think exercises alone are the key to unlocking super fingers.

They should be used, only in response to a direct problem.

[goldentone]

the most brilliant thing about Hanon...
it's super boring and its benefit as ROI for time and effort invested is little so when the exercises are ignored,  one doest miss out on much so its awesome that we dont feel any real loss when we devote ourselves to more worthwhile activities and methods for technical and musical development

But I have found Hanon Part II of great value for that fine acquisition of a golden tone.

I will demonstrate sometime. 

[brogers70]

Bold statement my friend! And I can somewhat agree with you.

But then what are scales? Arpeggios? Most still swear by these.

And what is rhythmic and dynamic practice?

I think exercises are fundamentally wrongly applied by amateur / hobby pianists who think exercises alone are the key to unlocking super fingers.

They should be used, only in response to a direct problem.

Yes, "They should be used only in response to a direct problem." For example, my teacher was always emphasizing "leading with the arm," and I intellectually understood what she meant but didn't understand how it felt to "lead with the arm" until I played a couple of the first exercises from Berens' "Exercises for the Left Hand" over and over. Then I got the feeling, and it helped with my pieces. Or she was after me about maintaining a fluid and flexible wrist, but I never understood it, I mean how it felt, until I worked on a couple of the exercises (16A,B, and C) from Brahms 51 Exercises. Recently she said I needed more lightness and relaxation in the RH, so I used the very first Hanon exercise played RH alone very fast and light, and it helped. But years ago just bashing through Part I of Hanon believing that it would "help with my technique" got me nowhere, and probably helped ingrain a tense, bad technique.

[maxim3]

[The following comments are those of an INTERMEDIATE LEVEL PIANO STUDENT, mostly self-taught at this point in life, no teacher possible right now I'm afraid. I am highly educated, erudite, witty, urbane, and generally a human wonder, but I have no qualifications in music.]

brogers70:

I suspect that any individual Hanon exercise, and for that matter a great many other exercises, can be used to help improve several aspects of technique AT THE SAME TIME.

Consider Hanon no. 1: Play it in Eb major and E major (with the same fingering as for C major of course.) Offers a few interesting challenges, does it not? For example, descending RH fingers 4 and 5? Getting fat stupid fingers cleanly between the black keys? Staying relaxed?

Playing major 3rd intervals with fingers 4 and 5 is a real problem for me, so I like the Hanon exercises that force me to do it all up and down the keyboard in different keys in the space of a minute or two. Not to mention the attention that must be paid to keeping finger 3 from causing trouble between the black keys.

You can work on a half-dozen different aspects of technique in the space of a few minutes with any Hanon exercise, by changing it a little as needed. For example, try holding down all the keys as you play, only releasing a key when that finger has to move. Or hold down just one key while the others play detached, or two keys, etc. like in Schmitt. Or stretch outside the given range. It never ends.

The great thing about Hanon and Schmitt -- at least from an intermediate-student point of view -- is that the exercises are so simple! You learn each exercise in 10 seconds and then spend another 90 seconds playing all kinds of variations on it, in random keys. In 10 minutes you can really cover a lot of ground.

If you have a 25-key MIDI keyboard, you can even practice a bit, with one hand at least, while taking a long hot bath.

You also have the choice, when the hardasses aren't looking, of doing your Hanon mindlessly like pushups, while you read the news or daydream about the girl next door. Then when the erection gets embarassing, you can get all pianostreetforum and focus on rotation, relaxation, feelings of personal inadequacy, and so on.

[brogers70]

[The following comments are those of an INTERMEDIATE LEVEL PIANO STUDENT, mostly self-taught at this point in life, no teacher possible right now I'm afraid. I am highly educated, erudite, witty, urbane, and generally a human wonder, but I have no qualifications in music.]

brogers70:

I suspect that any individual Hanon exercise, and for that matter a great many other exercises, can be used to help improve several aspects of technique AT THE SAME TIME.

Consider Hanon no. 1: Play it in Eb major and E major (with the same fingering as for C major of course.) Offers a few interesting challenges, does it not? For example, descending RH fingers 4 and 5? Getting fat stupid fingers cleanly between the black keys? Staying relaxed?

Playing major 3rd intervals with fingers 4 and 5 is a real problem for me, so I like the Hanon exercises that force me to do it all up and down the keyboard in different keys in the space of a minute or two. Not to mention the attention that must be paid to keeping finger 3 from causing trouble between the black keys.

You can work on a half-dozen different aspects of technique in the space of a few minutes with any Hanon exercise, by changing it a little as needed. For example, try holding down all the keys as you play, only releasing a key when that finger has to move. Or hold down just one key while the others play detached, or two keys, etc. like in Schmitt. Or stretch outside the given range. It never ends.

The great thing about Hanon and Schmitt -- at least from an intermediate-student point of view -- is that the exercises are so simple! You learn each exercise in 10 seconds and then spend another 90 seconds playing all kinds of variations on it, in random keys. In 10 minutes you can really cover a lot of ground.

If you have a 25-key MIDI keyboard, you can even practice a bit, with one hand at least, while taking a long hot bath.

You also have the choice, when the hardasses aren't looking, of doing your Hanon mindlessly like pushups, while you read the news or daydream about the girl next door. Then when the erection gets embarassing, you can get all pianostreetforum and focus on rotation, relaxation, feelings of personal inadequacy, and so on.

Different things may work for different people.

For example, getting used to moving fingers in between the black keys in the key of Eb by doing Hanon transposed there doesn't really help me. I was working on the Allemande from Bach's French Suite in Eb and there are certainly spots where you have to work with fingers between the black keys, but they are idiosyncratic enough that it was faster for me just to work on the specific hand shape and motions I needed than to have plowed through Hanon in multiple keys in advance.

As I said above I tried the "athletic" approach using Hanon and found it to have been somewhere between useless and harmful. Now I find it more useful to use a few exercises to address some specific technical problem that's come up while working on pieces. Things may work differently for you.

[maxim3]

brogers, do you select from known exercises, make them up yourself, or perhaps both?

[brogers70]

brogers, do you select from known exercises, make them up yourself, or perhaps both?

Mostly select from published exercises, but sometimes make one up out of material from a piece I'm working on, or want to work on some day.