My new Thumb exercise (based on Hanon no. 10)

[maxim3]

Here's a slight refingering of Hanon no. 10 to give the thumb a crossing workout. Thumb also has to jump! (To be played in all keys of course, as with regular Hanon)





(Image attached. I can see the little image icon for the attachment, but no picture right here in the post. How do I get the image to show right here? I tried the [] img thingie with imagebam but I still see nothing.)

[adodd81802]

Yeah.. so.. I'm not sure... I responded to your other post, highlighting why I don't think you should be dedicating too much time to these exercises, let alone trying to make your own unless it's addressing an issue you think you have while trying to learn a piece.

But lucky for you, I've got some spare time, so grab a coffee and let me tell you why you're wrong.

I assume at this point you don't have a teacher. I don't understand what your modification to the exercise is trying to achieve.

Here's the thing...Hanon; Born 1819, lived throughout the whole of the romantic period and even into early Impressionism.

He lived through composers such as Chopin, Liszt, Schumann, Schubert and many more. Therefore there was no shortage of inspiration and opportunity to create great works.

However, in 1873, at the age of 54, his 60 exercises were published. This is all Hanon is really known for.

60 questionable exercises, that promise virtuosity from a man who presumably was never a virtuoso at the piano... or any instrument.

Does this not tell you anything? Admittedly I don't have too much information to refer to, but the information I could find suggests that Hanon, who not only wasn't really even a pianist (Trained as an organist) also wasn't truly even dedicated to music.

I have 2 questions to think about and a concluding point.

1. We have virtuoso's who have referenced and even promoted Hanon's exercises (Rachmaninoff for example referring to the Russian school) BUT, I think the real question is, could these pianists already have had the virtuoso ability within and simply required direction for development and, with that in mind could have used any collection of exercises or methods and still became as great as they were?

2. A follow on from my first question, There is a "window" for the right way to complete any movements at the piano. This is called technique. So for example imagine you're asked to play a C major scale at the piano as fast as you can, evenly and staccato.

There will be 1000's of different movements involved in trying to accomplish this task and how many of those movements you execute correctly within that "window" will determine your results. Now it is impossible to think of all the movements together but there are certainly some common movements that can be identified as more correct or more incorrect, some easier than others.

How do you sit at the piano? Close? at a distance? Do you lean into the piano, is your seat high? low? do your arms hang or scrunch into your body

For the staccato sound do you bounce your fingers? do you use your elbows to bounce your hands? do you just flick the wrist down and up?

How do you move your thumb under? Do you turn your wrist slightly out? in? Do you tuck your thumb or shift your whole arm?

Your fingers, how do you press the notes? Do you lift your fingers high? Do you tap the keys lightly or go for a heavy press?

Now just because something might feel right, or correct to you, doesn't make it so. And here, finally, my question.

If you are doing something wrong at the piano, and you do not know it, Do you think repeating that, in the form of Hanon will magically fix the way you're doing it to be the correct way?

And we go back to reference of my 1st question, say you take 100 non pianists, and give them the 60 Hanon exercises and 6 months to practice all at 2 hours per day.

Do you think the 100 will all be at exactly the same level  at the end of the duration? Or do you think that there will be people that will get stuck, and people that will exceed due to the 'window' in which some people are playing the exercises correctly and some incorrectly?

I hope my references make sense. And I hope my point is understood.

I can't find the clip, but a couple years back, a guy posted on this forum a video, with a question.

He advised that he was practising Hanon by himself and trying to play as fast as the tempo indicated but was getting stuck around half way and asked for tips.

The obviously notable thing was that after playing every note his finger stretched straight into the air so high it was almost painful to watch, and I remember people were asking why your fingers were so high up if you were trying to play fast, and he responded well in the Hanon book it says to "Lift your fingers high and hit the notes clearly"...

[maxim3]

addodd81802, you are very kind, but really there's no need to spend this much of your precious time on me; in fact I have been actively researching these issues on and off for many years. A word to the wise is sufficient. (By the way, I was also trained how to do Hanon correctly, by a Russian concert pianist who graduated from Moscow Tchaikovsky Conservatory.)

The life and artistic achievements of Hanon (or the other authors) do not concern me in the least. What experts -- past and present -- think about the value of such exercises, is all I'm interested in.

As you know, there are unimpeachable authorities on the anti-exercise and pro-exercise sides, and everywhere in between. One cannot be on all sides at once.

(Why, just today I received a reply about my new thumb exercise here, from a professional who has answered a few of my questions in the past; he diplomatically suggested that it is worthless. Furthermore he revealed that he himself became a concert pianist without much exercises at all, adding, "If anything, I exercise tricky parts of pieces.")

Quite some time ago, after I'd already done part of the aforementioned research, I decided to carve 'PRO-EXERCISE' on my forehead, in the manner of Charles Manson devotees. I no longer debate this position with ANYONE, concert pianist or otherwise. I try to avoid argument; I seek instruction and advice from those I choose to follow.

Frankly, I'm interested in very little besides concise answers to the questions I actually pose.

Here's an example of my kind of guru: concert pianist / teacher Graham Fitch. Please watch this video in particular, if you can spare 18 minutes.

Piano masterclass on Technical Exercises

[klavieronin]

Can I offer some alternative fingerings?

1-3-2-1-2-1-2-3…
1-3-2-1-3-1-3-4…
1-3-2-1-4-1-4-5…

[adodd81802]

Quite some time ago, after I'd already done part of the aforementioned research, I decided to carve 'PRO-EXERCISE' on my forehead, in the manner of Charles Manson devotees. I no longer debate this position with ANYONE, concert pianist or otherwise. I try to avoid argument; I seek instruction and advice from those I choose to follow.

Here's an example of my kind of guru: concert pianist / teacher Graham Fitch. Please watch this video in particular, if you can spare 18 minutes.

Piano masterclass on Technical Exercises

It's a shame you feel the need to commit yourself to a category of Anti vs Pro Hanon when my suggestion was neither, but to consider only using exercises (no matter who's they were) when addressing a difficult passage in music, which seems to mimic the same response that you received from the 'professional': "I only exercise tricky parts of pieces."

The issue, in the bigger picture, is not Anti vs Pro Hanon, but simply the promises the book claims vs the actual realistic results, and people (mostly amateurs) that believe drilling through all exercises in all keys will have them turn into the next Rubinstein, Horowitz, Rachmaninoff. I have no doubt under the correct instruction this is certainly more achievable, but even then the 'Russian School' did not create 1000 Rachmaninoffs using their 'method'

I stand by my point however, that you are dedicating unnecessary time into these exercises that could be better spent learning music with the appropriate practice methods and considering exercises of any composer only when you hit roadblocks.

Thanks for the Graham Fitch post, I have seen all his videos, including his class on the correct way to practice

(Part 1)

And rhythmic practice

I believe you can take far more valuable information from those videos to assess where, if ever, you even need to be using exercises in the first place.

So the question, echo'd here, what is the aim of the exercise you have modified, why are you making a thumb jump exercise?

Playing consecutive notes on the thumb, anatomically speaking is not even practical. The muscles in the thumb alone are not designed for this movement as it relies heavily on the rotation of the whole hand, governed by the forearm.

This is already covered in Hanon's exercise 6 I believe, ascending for the left hand, descending for the right hand.

[maxim3]

Can I offer some alternative fingerings?

Klavieronin, thanks for your ideas! I got all mixed up trying them at first but I sorted it out. Very efficient. By not doing the final finger change I can also do my 'thumb jump' if I like, and of course it makes it harder.

So the question, echo'd here, what is the aim of the exercise you have modified, why are you making a thumb jump exercise?

It's not worth the time and effort of explaining. Try it. If you feel it offers you something, do it. If not, forget it.

[adodd81802]

You've been Defeated? Fair enough.

Well Thanks for taking your time to develop an exercise with no obvious purpose, or need, but my thumb already knows how to press notes.