Question about zig-zag notation in my music

[cubrunner]

I've come across this a couple of times before, but I forget what it means.

It's like a sideways lightning bolt, sort of like this: /\/\/

above a singular note, with the fingering numbers "232" above it.

I think it's some sort of trill, but how exactly is it supposed to be played?

[xvimbi]

What you see is a type of ornament (could be a trill or a mordent, one would have to look exactly how it's been drawn). How it is played depends on the ornament, the composer/era of the piece and the context, i.e. the notes around it and their duration. It is best to discuss all this with your teacher (assuming you have one). It is also highly advisable to get a text book that discusses ornamentation (pretty much any basic book on music theory does that). Also, many collections of pieces by Bach, Chopin, Beethove or anybody else have discussions about all kinds of aspects concerning the composer(s). Finally, the Internet is a treasure trove for questions like that.

If you want more information from forum members, you would have to specify exactly what piece it is and what measure you are talking about.

[bernhard]

Here is the short answer:

It is a short trill. The numbers above are the fingering – which indicates that this trill has only three notes to be played with fingers 2-3-2.

Here is the proper and correct answer:

First: is the marking /\/\/ plus the fingering in the score originally put there by the composer? If so, then what I said in my initial sentence stands and you should have no problem figuring it out.

However, if it is a marking (and fingering) by some editor, then you have opened a veritable can of worms. You must decide:

1.   Is it actually a trill? Baroque and pre-Baroque composers usually did not bother indicating ornamentation, leaving it to the performer’s knowledge and skill to improvise them. Sometimes they would indicate with a “+” above a note places where an ornament was desirable – but what form exactly was the ornament to take was not specified. This of course does not mean that the form was unknown or anyone could do anything. It means simply that it was a kind of knowledge that was taught and transmitted orally and rarely explicitly written out, partly because of secrecy amongst guilds of musicians. Three exceptions to this are J. S. Bach, Handel and Couperin. They got so sick of hearing their ornaments “wrongly” realised that they went to great pains to
 
a.   Write down the ornaments in full.

b.   Make tables of ornaments and symbols so that it was very clear what a certain symbol meant and exactly how it should be realised.

Unfortunately most composers more or less ignored such tables (which by the way were not in accordance with each other), and in many instances the composers themselves did not follow their own rules.

Then you have the other composers, (like for instance Scarlatti) who are so completely careless, that you might as well ignore whatever symbol they are using and just be aware that some sort of ornament is in order where any symbol appears.

But the situation is by no means hopeless. It hinges on answering correctly the question: “What is an ornament and what function does it fulfil in the music?”

To answer correctly this question you must be aware that the correct answer will be either totally right or totally wrong depending on:

a.   The musical period of the piece.

b.   The geographical place (Baroque Italian ornamentation is different from German and from English, for instance)
c.   The musical tradition the composer belongs to or is trying to emulate (e.g. Baroque ornamentation is different form Romantic ornamentation – a Romantic composer composing a piece that emulates Baroque practices, e.g. Grieg’s Holberg suite or Debussy’s Suite Bergamasque will use Baroque rules).

Finally, more than one realisation for the same ornament may be feasible and correct (after all ornaments were supposed to be improvised).

So your question can only be properly answered by knowing the piece and the composer. And even then it may be a soul-searching matter. It is not for nothing that the “Bible” in the matter (Frederick Newman: “Ornamentation in Baroque and Post-Baroque music” – Princeton) goes on and on for over 600 pages.

Having said the above, research the answer to the following questions and you should know how to play any ornaments (if you manage to find the correct answer, that is):

1. Are ornaments played on the beat?

2. Do the notes of appoggiaturas indicate their length in execution?

3. Is the appoggiatura long or short?

4. Are there any clues in parallel passages as to the length of this appoggiatura?

5. Is this a short trill or a long trill?

6. Where does this trill stop?

7. Does this trill have an appoggiatura function?

8. Is this trill at constant speed, or does it begin slowly and speed up?

9. Does this trill require a termination, or did the composer intend its omission?

10. Can this trill which is diatonically prepared form above conceivably be executed as a tied trill?

11. Is it desirable in this piece to add trill or appoggiaturas where they have not been indicated in the text?

(Questions from Ralph Kirkpatrick’s Preface to his edition of “Scarlatti –Sixty sonatas” – Schirmer)

I just saw xvimbi's answer. He is absolutely right.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[cubrunner]

  Wow...I never anticipated that this would be so complicated.

The piece is Chopin's famous Minute Waltz in D flat Major.

I've literally just begun working on it, and the ornamentations (?) in question are in the first lines of the piece.

I've been listening to the recording, so I have an idea how it sounds...but the recording I have is played so fast--I want to make sure I have the exact notes correct.

Thanks for your help; I never expected such long and insightful answers 

[xvimbi]

Ehem, I don't know anything about you, so no offense, but if you don't know how to read the score, you might be in over your head. Hey, I said no offense

In any case, check out this thread https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5965.0.html

And remember, the title does not suggest you have to play the piece within one minute. The "minute" does not refer to time, but to the fact that it's a "small", i.e. minute waltz.

[cubrunner]

Will I have difficulty learning the Minute Waltz? Yes. But in over my head? Definitely not. And yes, I know it's not supposed to be played in a minute.

[bernhard]

Will I have difficulty learning the Minute Waltz? Yes. But in over my head? Definitely not. And yes, I know it's not supposed to be played in a minute.

That narrows it down nicely.

Bar 10: Depending on your technique try this:

F – Eb – eb-f-eb-d – Eb (capital letters = quavers, small caps= semiquavers).

If that is too difficult, this one is also acceptable:

F – Eb – f –eb- D – Eb (capital letters = quavers, small caps= semiquavers).

In bar12, you have a similar ornament, but it lies much easier under the hand, so do it as a triplet:

F – eb-f-eb- D – Eb – F – Bb (capital letters= quavers, small caps= triplet semiquavers).

(write it down in proper music notation and it will be easier to figure it out.)

Best wishes,
Bernhard,

[HomeSchooler]

Ehem, I don't know anything about you, so no offense, but if you don't know how to read the score, you might be in over your head. Hey, I said no offense

Cubrunner:  I see you came back at *XVIMBI*...Good for you...I see you are new....Just a few posts......

He/She as the case may be seems to like to talk down.....and then add something like *no offense*....

Same happened to me for putting in the periods to divide my writing ....and for highlighting  some words...

Nan

[xvimbi]

Same happened to me for putting in the periods to divide my writing ....and for highlighting  some words...

You crack me up! No offense 

[xvimbi]

Will I have difficulty learning the Minute Waltz? Yes. But in over my head? Definitely not. And yes, I know it's not supposed to be played in a minute.

It is difficult to judge somebody's level from a couple of posts. So, if I have offended you in any way, accept my sincere apologies (Nan has implied that my post may have come over that way).

Hope you'll stick around.

[HomeSchooler]

My apologies to EVERYone...

I should have posted privately...

Nan

[cubrunner]

"It is difficult to judge somebody's level from a couple of posts. So, if I have offended you in any way, accept my sincere apologies (Nan has implied that my post may have come over that way).

Hope you'll stick around."


You haven't offended me in the least; compared with everyone else here, my skill level is almost laughable. 

But I appreciate everyone's help, and perhaps with more time (here in the forums and practicing), I'll improve. Regardless, I'll be back for more advice. Thanks.