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Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed! (Read 6829 times)

Offline mjames

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Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
« on: November 15, 2018, 07:01:17 PM »
Anyone else gets pissed off by this? Like I tell a buddy I'm going to learn [X overplayed piece] (rubbish term but whatever) and he's like come on don't, it's overplayed!

SO WHAT, I HAVENT LEARNED IT SO IM CANT BE TIRED OF IT.

Anyways if there's anything that deserves to be overplayed it's Bach's goldberg variations. "But the audience..."

*** the audience. Don't attend my recital then.

/rantoff

Offline visitor

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #1 on: November 15, 2018, 08:54:02 PM »
this post is so overposted

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 09:46:45 PM »
Fr Elise! I've had so many students come to me and say "I want to learn this.", then open their book and show me Fr Elise. I am sick to death of it - and I never liked it to begin with. But I have never told anyone they shouldn't learn it. It's up to individuals what they want to learn. Personally, I'm generally pretty allergic to overplayed pieces. Goldberg variations is an exception though. I never get tired of hearing that.

Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #3 on: November 16, 2018, 05:05:05 PM »
, "And Everest is overclimbed".

(of course, this is a ridiculous reason... )
4'33"

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #4 on: November 17, 2018, 02:23:59 AM »
There is nothing wrong with playing popular pieces. There are people out there that don't know about these popular pieces or have not seen it live in front of them. Some people think recordings are a replacement for live music which is a shame. You isolate yourself from your audience by shunning all popular pieces. If you can play popular pieces and mix them with some of your own favorites which may be lesser known you can draw in your audience and expand their own music experiences. Doing a concert full of popular pieces probably would be very popular although mostly to those who don't listen to much piano music which is the majority of society :)

As a teacher I don't mind teaching pieces over and over again because it is the challenge people have learning it that is of interest to educators.
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Offline keypeg

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #5 on: January 27, 2019, 11:28:17 PM »
I'm thinking that if a teacher is that extremely familiar with an "overplayed" piece that he has heard "too many times", then that teacher must have a superb expertise in teaching it very well with all its in and outs.  ;D

Offline outin

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #6 on: January 28, 2019, 03:01:45 PM »
The only problem with popular pieces is that they are usually not that good. Seem most people have bad taste in music...

Offline visitor

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #7 on: January 28, 2019, 03:08:30 PM »
The only problem with popular pieces is that they are usually not that good. Seem most people have bad taste in music...
give.her a medal !! dingding to the top w you
I suspect this is partially at play [at least ] with much of  the piano music of Robert  Schumann

Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #8 on: January 28, 2019, 04:42:18 PM »
The only problem with popular pieces is that they are usually not that good. Seem most people have bad taste in music...

Bad taste is in the mouth of the beholder.

I see Bobby is  still the favorite punching bag - (i guess his promotion thru his mag of the trove of Bach music discovered need not be considered as good taste).  Writing chops and analytical skills of naysayers I'm sure are brought to bear as are in the village stoning.
Cheerio
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Offline latrobe

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #9 on: February 03, 2019, 12:30:51 PM »
There's always room for a special interpretation, a creation of beauty. But if it's a commonly played piece the performance has to be all the more special.


Best wishes

David P
David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
Promoting keyboard heritage http://www.organmatters.co.uk and performers in Unequal Temperament http://www.hammerwood.mistral.co.uk/concerts.htm

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #10 on: February 03, 2019, 02:27:00 PM »
But if it's a commonly played piece the performance has to be all the more special.
hhhhhhhhh, wow so deep.    /end sarcasm
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Offline keypeg

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #11 on: February 04, 2019, 02:14:20 AM »
There's always room for a special interpretation, a creation of beauty. But if it's a commonly played piece the performance has to be all the more special.
If we're talking about students, learning to play the piano, and wanting also to learn to play a piece they love that the teacher has heard many times before - No!    It takes years to get the skills to do that.  There is technique, musical knowledge, and more, and not everyone learning to play the piano will get there anyway. Why would you deprive a student from learning something he or she loves, based on such criteria?  And why would that even be necessary?

Offline latrobe

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #12 on: February 04, 2019, 12:11:28 PM »
Why would you deprive a student from learning something he or she loves, based on such criteria?  And why would that even be necessary?

I think perhaps what I've written has come over in the wrong way or perhaps I wrote with only half a mind. I agree wholly with you. It's really important for students to play what they love, and that love will lead them on and if that goes so far as to be good, then they will reach that level of which I indicate.

Best wishes

David P
David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
Promoting keyboard heritage http://www.organmatters.co.uk and performers in Unequal Temperament http://www.hammerwood.mistral.co.uk/concerts.htm

Offline keypeg

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 12:03:47 PM »
Sounds good, David.  I was also probably grumpy.  There's so much ice on the ground that one tends to be housebound.

Offline Bob

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #14 on: February 07, 2019, 11:47:24 PM »
You also have to learn them because everyone knows them.  How can you say you don't know that piece that everyone knows?
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline outin

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #15 on: February 08, 2019, 07:52:51 PM »
You also have to learn them because everyone knows them.  How can you say you don't know that piece that everyone knows?

Why couldn't I?

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #16 on: February 09, 2019, 06:35:46 AM »
Anyone else gets pissed off by this? Like I tell a buddy I'm going to learn [X overplayed piece] (rubbish term but whatever) and he's like come on don't, it's overplayed!

SO WHAT, I HAVENT LEARNED IT SO IM CANT BE TIRED OF IT.

Anyways if there's anything that deserves to be overplayed it's Bach's goldberg variations. "But the audience..."

*** the audience. Don't attend my recital then.

/rantoff

You have a good point and actually the audience will be happier to recognize pieces they like and are familiar with.  Dont forget how to play Happy Birthday. The most famous piece of music. ..way overplayed

Offline j_tour

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #17 on: May 03, 2019, 04:58:04 PM »
Dont forget how to play Happy Birthday. The most famous piece of music. ..way overplayed

Yes, agreed.

The Slonismky Minitude based on "Happy Birthday" is excellent.  Hard to remember, though, for me.
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Offline compline

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #18 on: May 04, 2019, 06:40:08 AM »
I also love the  overplayed piece which is Pachelbel's Canon. in D .  and hope to be able to play it well one day.  Because it is a popular piece for students does not deter me from learning what I love.
Another great piece I love is Farewell to Stromness,  and another milestone if I can play it well.    Life is more  richer and exciting when you are on the road to achieving goals.


 
Student

Offline Bob

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #19 on: November 03, 2019, 12:50:07 PM »
You also have to learn them because everyone knows them.  How can you say you don't know that piece that everyone knows?

I'm going to agree with myself.  I was just thinking the exact same thing.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline quantum

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #20 on: November 03, 2019, 01:37:40 PM »
It is like an English teacher saying: Don't read Romeo and Juliet, it is over read. 

Countless generations of students read Romeo and Juliet.  What possible value could it bring to the next generation?  ::)

Unfortunately the "overplayed" argument is overused in music too often.
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Offline bcdil5

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #21 on: December 04, 2019, 07:25:11 PM »
If something seems overplayed to you as a teacher, than encourage a student to find a new way to play an old piece!




Offline mrcreosote

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #22 on: February 07, 2020, 06:46:29 PM »
A teacher has to be careful grading papers.  When the class all makes the same mistake, one must not, view the last papers as if they made the mistake over and over.

I think when playing and instrument, you follow the evolutionary path.  You start with the oldest composers and work your way to the current ones (if you make it far - some prefer to stop before Ives, Barber, Cage, Ligeti, Dohnanyi, et. al.)

The only time I'd suggest playing some "Oldie" like The Heroic, The Revolutionary, is when you have something special to give.  I can't bear to listen to those two... until I found the video of a young Rubenstein playing the Heroic.  It sang to me!  Or Pires Schubert Impromptu op 90 #1 Cm
which took my breath away.

Offline ranjit

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #23 on: February 08, 2020, 11:37:05 AM »
The only time I'd suggest playing some "Oldie" like The Heroic, The Revolutionary, is when you have something special to give.

I kind of agree with your advice once you're a professional pianist, but not when you're still learning. You start out playing pieces you are familiar with. And it helps if other people are familiar with the pieces as well, in terms of getting recognition for your accomplishments which can motivate you to continue learning.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #24 on: February 08, 2020, 11:58:31 AM »
There is nothing wrong with playing popular pieces. There are people out there that don't know about these popular pieces or have not seen it live in front of them. Some people think recordings are a replacement for live music which is a shame. You isolate yourself from your audience by shunning all popular pieces. If you can play popular pieces and mix them with some of your own favorites which may be lesser known you can draw in your audience and expand their own music experiences. Doing a concert full of popular pieces probably would be very popular although mostly to those who don't listen to much piano music which is the majority of society :)

As a teacher I don't mind teaching pieces over and over again because it is the challenge people have learning it that is of interest to educators.
All good points.

Notwithstanding the famous chapter heading in the book Music, Ho! (1934) by English composer Constant Lambert (1905-1951) The Appalling Popularity of Music, there can be no guarantee that a work's popularity is an indicator of its inferior quality.

Just consider two examples from Rachmaninoff; firstly, his Second Symphony, wonderful as it is, which receives vastly more performance and is far more widely loved than his other two which each deserve greater attention and, secondly, his Second Piano Concerto which is heard way more often than any of his other three (and, whilst I happen to think it to be the weakest of the four, that says more about the splendour of the others than it does about that one!).

Another example is Liszt's Sonata, which has been played by hundreds of pianists yet, at the time of its premire, it was, as Wagner believed, among of the finest piano sonatas since Beethoven (and, for the record, it has been the subject of no less than four organ transcriptions and even one for solo violin!).

Moreover, there are plenty of pieces that have suffered comparative neglect at some times and been "overplayed" at others.

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Offline mrcreosote

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #25 on: April 13, 2020, 04:06:17 PM »
There's always room for a special interpretation, a creation of beauty. But if it's a commonly played piece the performance has to be all the more special.


Best wishes

David P

Bad idea to start with this - it will be difficult to stop peoples' inner dialog and get them to listen.  Would be much more effective played after something preparing the audience.

My personal opinion on this piece is that I only play the middle part!  Some years later, a cousin of mine who had heard me do that at various family holiday dinners told me she felt the same way.

If I had to learn all the Beethoven sonatas, I'd have to kill myself (so to speak of course!)

Offline volcanoadam

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #26 on: June 07, 2020, 07:57:26 PM »
I understand that from teachers perspective it might be tiring to listen another pupil struggling with Fur Elise or Turkish March, but there's nothing more exciting than starting to learn a piece we know and love. Or am I wrong?
The good thing about such well known pieces is that there's alway audience for them.
VA

Offline dogperson

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #27 on: June 07, 2020, 09:43:51 PM »
I understand that from teachers perspective it might be tiring to listen another pupil struggling with Fur Elise or Turkish March, but there's nothing more exciting than starting to learn a piece we know and love. Or am I wrong?
The good thing about such well known pieces is that there's alway audience for them.


Its a delicate balance with playing music that has been played so many times. In particular these two  have been so horribly played so many times that you will need to win over your audience by playing them  very, very well 😊

Offline volcanoadam

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #28 on: June 08, 2020, 05:02:41 PM »


Its a delicate balance with playing music that has been played so many times. In particular these two  have been so horribly played so many times that you will need to win over your audience by playing them  very, very well 😊

Yes, and that means it needs more and more practise  :)
VA

Offline dogperson

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #29 on: June 08, 2020, 08:50:03 PM »
Yes, and that means it needs more and more practise  :)
 
Practice? Of course.  The problem, however, is these pieces are often attempted by beginning students. No amount of practice can compensate for not having developed the technique to play them well. 

Offline ranjit

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #30 on: June 12, 2020, 10:55:08 AM »
Yes, and that means it needs more and more practise  :)

No, that kind of musicality comes with time. You won't get there just by "practicing", you need a lot of exposure to music, thinking about the individual aspects of playing such as phrasing, dynamics, pedalling, etc. The "imagination" develops over time, and practice is probably less important than a number of things such as improving general musicality aside from playing the piano.

Offline volcanoadam

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #31 on: June 12, 2020, 06:46:33 PM »
Ohh, come on guys!  Practise, in my opinion at least, is much more than dumb hammering on piano keys. It also means study of all relevant aspects of music as well as mechanical development.
I still haven't attempted Fur Elise, because I know I need much more practise before I do, but certainly I will when time comes  ;D
VA

Offline ranjit

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Re: Come on man, don't learn it - it's overplayed!
«Reply #32 on: June 13, 2020, 03:11:22 AM »
I still haven't attempted Fur Elise, because I know I need much more practise before I do, but certainly I will when time comes  ;D

Usually, people don't wait until they have the perfect idea of how to play a piece in their head before they play it. Instead, they first learn the piece, and keep coming back to it and improving it once they have new ideas.