Any way to speed up learning new pieces?

[maxim3]

I'm pretty sure the only realistic answer to this question is "just keep pluggin' away, sport"

But it doesn't hurt to ask.

All my knowledge of scales, arpeggios, having been previous player of other instruments etc. doesn't help me learn piano pieces quickly. Picture an untalented child slowly and painfully picking out a new piece. That's me. Learning each hand separately is bad enough, but hands together? Glacially-paced agony. Like 2 weeks to learn the easiest Bach piece in existence.

So! Any suggestions to speed this crap up? I'm prepared to try anything (human sacrifice will be the very last resort, I promise)

[keypeg]

How do you approach a new piece right now?

[themeandvariation]

Choose easier and shorter pieces..Even Bach's 'easy' pieces are deceptively Not.

[tinyhands]

My teacher has taught me to practice ‘efficiently’ and as a returning adult it has really speeded up learning pieces and securing them to memory. I used to play the same section over and over again hoping it would get better, but all I was doing was learning bad habits, (in technique and notes ) and securing these bad habits to my memory - total waste of time. Now I take very small sections, do hands separately and play really really slowly..playing mindfully. I used to think ‘this section is easy ‘ and would feel a bit silly playing so slowly or separate as I was more ‘advanced’ than that , but it really does work in learning it inside out. But here are some techniques that really work for me -

I look to see the patterns in a section, where a theme repeats for example or when it modulates ..all this helps me to ‘read’ the music and understand it.


 Take a small section ( 3 bars for example) and play it different ways, maybe invert it, or if it’s a chord, break it down to one note, then2 then 3.

Play a section back to front etc..or find anchor points in the music.
if it’s a waltz start with the bass note and ‘ghost’ the chord in the left hand. This also works for any jumps you have to make in either hand. all this really cements it and it goes in.

 I also find if I start messing a section up, I’m either playing too big a section at one time or playing too fast. So it go back to slowing it right down, you need patience to do this and it is very tempting to rush on.

One more thing, you almost always see the benefit of this practice the next day.

I feel my teacher now actually teaches me how to learn...how to break It down into manageable sections..( when maybe when I played years ago I was younger and it came to me easier, I dunno, but I don’t remember ever being taught how to actually ‘Practice.’  )

Hope this helps.

[dogperson]

My advice: cut back the time you spend on technical exercises to no more than 10 min per day.  Devote the remaining time to playing repertoire, as much as you can. Choose music below what is your ‘best’ level, play it as much as possible hands together.  Expose yourself to a large number of pieces!!!  At first, it will be painful, but it will get easier the more you do.

This is different than ‘just keep plugging away’ as you need to change your direction away from tech exercises.  

[tinyhands]

Sorry meant to clarify the hands separate bit is only untiil you have really secured the notes, then put it together and do the things suggested but still playing slowly. Anchor points are good too so if you mess up you always have a reference point to go back too. I used to have a memory blank and have to go back to the beginning of a piece. My teacher had me learn one of the Bach inventions inside out so I could pick it up from any bar she named, ( within reason.. 😂) that was really really hard but so worthwhile in the end!

[maxim3]

I didn't expect so many answers so quickly. Please allow me a little time to digest all this advice.

In the meantime, the level of pieces I'm referring to is the simplest little menuets from Bach's Anna Magdalena Notebook.

However, I just started learning a somewhat more complicated thing, an Allemande from the Klavierbüchlein, BWV 836. (Frankly the simplest menuets seem to me no less difficult. Playing almost anything at all with hands together is horribly difficult for me. When I try ANYTHING with hands together, my brain seems to fill with a thick brown substance.)

My approach is mainly, a few bars at a time: I try to learn one or two bars of the RH, then the LH, then put them together. So at a certain point you might see me playing one hand at a time, fairly confidently, at an EXTREME slow tempo. Then I play hands together and it all falls apart.

[outin]

I think there are many ways to speed up the process of learning an individual piece if it is not presenting very many completely new challenges.

- I would forget about hands separate in the beginning. Work every measure carefully at first making sure everything is correctly read and the rhythm is right from the beginning. Hands separate can be useful later to improve balance and voicing.
- Practice the difficult parts more and divide the piece into logical sections. Only play through the whole piece occasionally to see what needs work and only at a tempo where you can maintain it also in the more difficult parts.
- Work out fingerings carefully in the beginning.
- If the aim is to memorize, do it as soon as possible and only occasionally check the score to see that nothing has been misread/ignored.
- Also do not try to force the difficult parts on one sitting, work on them as long as you see improvement and then come back next day. Almost always they seem more manageable then.
- My head does not do well with studying the scores away from the piano, but that certainly is a good way to speed the learning process as well.

[adodd81802]

I don't know how accurate it is, but "sheet-music-2-print" is suggesting BWV 836 is a grade 5 piece...

Presuming a grade a year for the average hobby pianist, would suggest around 5 years of comfortable training before attempting that piece...and that you need to go back to even simpler music that while involves both hands, usually calls for very little to no requirements from the left hand.

I'm talking less than 10 notes, or literally both hands playing the same notes for a couple weeks until that becomes second nature.

With that in mind maybe you'd benefit from something like Czerny that has progressive pieces, if I recall op.599 is the real beginner stuff.. Don't know if I can post links, but this or IMSLP has a bunch of his progressive-exercises to download

pianoexercises.org/exercises/czerny/

I recall the first time I ever really started the piano, around 7 or 8 a late starter, With no formal training, I started off with pop songs. These are often compositions with a nice easy melody and usually 1 note on the beat in the left hand.

This piece - below, at the time was the hardest piece I ever learnt, and it is what broke the barrier in my mind of splitting the left and the right hand, particularly because of the different rhythmic pattern you're playing in each hand. - this is NOT me by the way

[william_ni_guang_xin]

Looks like your biggest problem is playing with both hands together, I had this problem too, I just learned Chopin's Prelude no. 1, and it felt impossible playing both staves, but I found a method thst works for me.

First, practice the left hand section, in half the designated tempo, then practice the right this way also, finally, play with hands together at this tempo, when you can play a piece with both hands almost perfectly at a slow tempo, you'll just need to speed it up, it's actually easier than it sounds!

I read an article about someone who heard Rachmaninoff practicing Chopin's Etude Op. 25, No. 6, but at a snail's tempo, that one can't even tell the melody, but he does it in such a controlled manner, it actually improves one's technique more than practicing fast.

Worked for me, I always memorize music, I'm a horrendous sight reader.

[brogers70]

I see the appeal exercises must have for you. There are simple patterns and once you invest the time to get the pattern you can play them more cleanly and more enjoyably than the new pieces you are struggling with. But it's not necessarily very helpful - it's certainly not helping you learn new music more quickly. So I agree with the two bits of advice you've already heard. First, cut back on the exercises a lot. Second, play very, very easy pieces. Swallow your pride, if that's an issue, maybe it's not. Just work on things that are so simple you feel comfortable putting the hands together quickly. Do that for a year, yes a whole year, and only when you feel completely relaxed and comfortable learning new pieces at that ultra easy level start working up gradually to more difficult pieces. You can always try to find something musical or beautiful in even the simplest pieces. It will get faster over time.

[maxim3]

Hahhah I thought BWV 836 was about Grade 2 or 3! Clearly I know nothing of the traditional pedagogy.

Indeed I must find some simpler pieces for the time being, I'll check the suggestions. I could also look up the actual syllabi and rep lists for the piano grades.

[tinyhands]

Here are two pieces from ABRSM grade 1 this year , a Beethoven and a Bach piece

First one starts at 0.26. Also maybe the highlighted notes in green might help you see how to coordinate both hands?

. - Beethoven op 107 no 3

- Bach BWV Anh 131

lovely short pieces.  Simplier pieces can Still be very musical as brogers70 said.

I don’t know if you have access to many second hand book stores , but if you do it’s worth picking up some early grade exam books (ABRSM for example) for a good variety of pieces , also good for improving your sight reading, but then again not sure what country you are in and if you have such a system as ABRSM. 

[maxim3]

After reading everything here and doing some online research, I have discovered The Way Forward. Indeed it is to play simpler pieces. I really had no idea there was such a wealth of nice stuff available at the easiest levels.

I think I have a better idea of my own 2-hand level now: I jumped into Czerny op. 599 and played everything easily up to no. 12 -- thanks to the other training I've given myself I can even sight-transpose those pieces to a few other keys, including minors.

But then I hit lucky no. 13 and had to slow down. So that's about where I'm at I suppose.

By stepping into a smaller world, I've stepped into a larger world. This is the Tao.

[adodd81802]

Maxim, we are finally speaking the same language

I am happy to see you are taking a look at pieces and compositions rather than strict exercises. It is an eye opener for sure.

As you will see from the site I provided there's a lot of Czerny resources for you to look at, some are very similar, repetitive and so my suggestion is to do just what you have, sight read through to the point you can't any longer, and then proceed to learn the pieces.

I wouldn't focus too much on transposition, simply because they get progressively harder and you will find that the pieces start to incorporate sharps and flats.

As these are study pieces rather than performance, take note of the dynamics, but I'd focus on control of the notes more than anything, clean execution of runs, e.t.c.

Also the best habit I personally think is to not try and memorise the piece, as much as continue to refer to the score, paying attention to what you see and translate it to what you hear.

The better you get at reading music, you will find quickly that you can learn new pieces quicker.

Bit of back story, Czerny promised Liszt that he could make him a world class performer, and gave him a bunch of these studies to play. Liszt (from what I can remember) accepted the training then after some time abandoned what he had learned through Czerny and "re-learnt" the piano his own way... However I believe one of his compositions - Execution of Transcendental Etudes were still dedicated to Czerny. Make of that story what you will.

[dogperson]

I don’t understand how reading Czerny tells you what your level of reading actual music is.  Forget the Czerny if you want to play actual repertoire.  Look at the Abrsm syllabus per graded piano; you can either download a free copy of many of the scores from the internet or you can buy a copy.  There are used copies of prior years to be bought quite cheaply.  

Go back and read Brogers’ post; he is spot on that you have developed a comfort level with playing repetitive patterns through your focus on exercises.    Focus on actual music if you want to play music.

[lostinidlewonder]

Lower level Czerny is terribly boring for beginners I don't know how many these days could subject themselves to it. Google search easy piano music will give you better results I feel. There is no need to play only old music if there is a huge amount of fresh new pieces which have better musical value.

To speed up pieces avoid practicing too fast, use good fingering, avoid brute force mindless repetitions, observe patterns and repetition in the music and highlight them on the score, get a teacher who teaches you practice craft.

[lostinidlewonder]

I don't know how accurate it is, but "sheet-music-2-print" is suggesting BWV 836 is a grade 5 piece...

Presuming a grade a year for the average hobby pianist, would suggest around 5 years of comfortable training before attempting that piece...and that you need to go back to even simpler music that while involves both hands, usually calls for very little to no requirements from the left hand.

I'm talking less than 10 notes, or literally both hands playing the same notes for a couple weeks until that becomes second nature.

With that in mind maybe you'd benefit from something like Czerny that has progressive pieces, if I recall op.599 is the real beginner stuff.. Don't know if I can post links, but this or IMSLP has a bunch of his progressive-exercises to download

pianoexercises.org/exercises/czerny/

I recall the first time I ever really started the piano, around 7 or 8 a late starter, With no formal training, I started off with pop songs. These are often compositions with a nice easy melody and usually 1 note on the beat in the left hand.

This piece - below, at the time was the hardest piece I ever learnt, and it is what broke the barrier in my mind of splitting the left and the right hand, particularly because of the different rhythmic pattern you're playing in each hand. - this is NOT me by the way

The LH fingering in the video is really bad.

[timothy42b]

Not crazy about that hand position either.  I didn't look close, but is that an in weighted keyboard maybe? 

Rule of thumb, for a self taught pianist:  If you cannot sightread it at half tempo, it's too hard.

Now with good instruction that rule might not apply.  But you're going to insist on doing it your way, so you should consider that absolute.

Second don't waste time on the easy parts.  Pick the hardest measure and master that.  Loop it and play it continuously in rhythm if that helps. 

Third.  Hands together is not that hard; you're doing it wrong.  Go look at Bernhard's links and read the one about hands together scales.  Use his approach; it's tedious but once through it will produce an aha moment for you. 

[timothy42b]

I looked again.  I don't recognize the keyboard brand but I really think it must be one of those springloaded ones, definitely not weighted keys.  Otherwise I don't think he could get away with that technique.  It may not even be touch sensitive. 

[adodd81802]

I should point out I wasn't suggesting to play like that pianist, or take note of any of the visuals!

Just that it was a good piece to learn for a beginner that wants to really master the split between hands

Apologies for the confusion!

[lostinidlewonder]

What is a "visual"? A beginner should learn held chords vs melody it's much easier, breaking up he LH is confusing for beginners usually.

[timothy42b]

Just that it was a good piece to learn for a beginner that wants to really master the split between hands

Apologies for the confusion!

I think it's too hard for the OP's level.  Also the left hand has to make some big leaps changing position and that's going to encourage looking at his hands.  And as l.i.w. pointed out fingering is a consideration.

However, you do have a point.  It's a tune everybody knows, the left hand is one repeated pattern with a logical chord progression. It's just 1-6-4-5 over and over, right?

The approach would be to get the left hand going steadily and in slow tempo with a metronome.  Then after 4 bars, play 1 note with the right hand.  4 bars resting right hand, 4 bars playing 1 note right hand, until it's comfortable.  Then move to 2 notes right hand. That will take longer.  and build until the right hand plays all the notes.  Then reverse the process.  That's the problem with this piece, there's no good way to start right hand only, but that's the idea.

[xr280xr]

Coming from someone largely self-trained, so take it with a grain of salt (but also pretty good at self teaching), I would say:

• Start by identifying what is consuming the most time right now. Is it reading the music? Is it making mistakes? Putting two hands together? Then figure out how to address each one.
• Addressing each one is basically founded on the same principal: start small and build your way up. So if reading is a challenge, work on doing that more fluently. I was a flute player in grade & high school so I read treble clef really well but am slow at the bass clef. You might make some flash cards or find an online tool for getting really quick at identifying individual notes and then move on to recognizing intervals and chord shapes.
• Practice site reading (playing while reading the first time) on super easy pieces and gradually increase the difficulty. You're not playing these cause you like the songs or cause they'll impress anyone, you're playing them as a site reading drill to make your brain connect the notes on the page with your fingers.
• For putting two hands together, it has helped me to not wait too long before trying them together. I alternate between single hands and playing together ASAP so that I start getting muscle memory of the feeling of both together.
• On the muscle memory topic, for me I also have to realize there's a certain point where I'm not making any progress. My brain gets tired and I might actually be hurting my progress (or at least using my time very inefficiently) by continuing. Practice with a metronome and get to where you can play it perfectly at a speed, then bump it up 8-12 bpm. If at the new speed you aren't improving as fast as when you started, then go back down to the previous tempo, play it perfectly there, and then stop. For me, that really helps etch it into my brain and then next time I come back to practice it it feels much more natural and I can often play it at that increased tempo that I had to abandon

[chechig]

My teacher always says: Practice so slowly as not to make mistakes, because when you make mistakes they stuck to your brain and one has to make a big effort to get rid of them.
When I started to learn piano, I started with very simple pieces. I searched on syllabus, wich I think are very useful. Burgmuller, Concone, Gurlitt have melodic studies for beginners funny to play. Also William Gillock has fantastic pieces to start with.

[bernadette60614]

When I was in my first years of piano study, I could bang out "big pieces" easily..Schubert Impromptus, a couple of Beethoven sonatas, some Liszt.  Now, that I have a number of years of study, it takes me forever to learn a few pages of Beethoven.

I'm a freakishly fluent sight reader so I could put hands together quickly.  And, consequently, I picked up and ingrained a ton of bad habits...from irregular rhythm, jarring expression, uneven tone.

I have now been working with a teacher who insists that I learn the piece as close to a professional caliber as I can (within my limitations..I'm not someone who started at age 4 and spent her childhood practicing).  I have been working on a rondo from a Beethoven mid grade sonata for months, and one Bach invention for seemingly forever.

I can hear the difference..it isn't just a piece, it is a piece of real music, with emotional expression, consistent technique and a steady pulse.  Take the time not to just get the notes right and the hands together, but to really make the piece..no matter how seemingly simple...speak musically.

[coolpianoman]

S L O W practice - takes longer but actually achieves the goal quicker - if that makes any sense. I used to hate slow practice but since I downloaded an app pro metronome which has a talking feature I can do it for hours - not that I advise that.  Somehow hearing the one, two three keeps you going for longer and is more intrusive. Does the off beats, polyrhythms  and lots more.

[bronnestam]

My teacher always says: Practice so slowly as not to make mistakes, because when you make mistakes they stuck to your brain and one has to make a big effort to get rid of them.

...but really, this is BS if it is taken too literally. Ever seen a toddler falling on its nose or butt while trying to walk? Yeah, exactly, everybody does it. And somehow these falls do not get stuck to their brains, on the contrary, they are important tools - the famous trial-and-error-method.

You have to play in such a tempo that you actually DO make mistakes, but of course your teacher is right when he/she says that you "must not" make them, in the aspect that you have to deal with them at once. You must analyze them, think of a solution and then practice this solution until you get it right (and then practice a bit more to really affirm the right movements). If you just ignore the mistake and sort of hope that it will vanish by itself next time you pass that spot   you are in trouble. (I have done that a million times.) If you just ignore the mistake and tell yourself that it is all right anyway, because "it is good enough for them" as our old family joke goes, you will never get better. But the same goes if you play so slowly that you never make a mistake - this means that you are within your comfort zone and you will not evolve from there.

Playing slowly is a great tool, but it does not mean that you should play a whole piece like a snail because otherwise you would mess up bar 42 and 56. It means that you should practice bar 42 and 56 with care and try to isolate the mistakes, and to do this you first need to play slowly so that you can notice what really happens, where it goes wrong. Then you practice this troublesome spot, perhaps just two or three notes, and that is something you soon can do very fast. Extend the section a bit, practice it up to full speed, and there you are.  You will probably have to repeat this procedure tomorrow, but after some days with this routine, the error will be gone.

I also recommend that you, when you have encountered a mistake, try to repeat the mistake once. "This is how it feels." Then you play the same sequence in the right way. (I still talk about two or three notes, not 13 bars.) You notice the difference. You play the mistake again, you play it right again, you play it right again, you play it right again ... In this way you gain full control of what you are doing.

This method it is the same procedure whether you are learning Mary Had A Little Lamb or the Waldstein Sonata. There was a time when I also thought that I must not make mistakes. As I inevitably made them anyway, I worked up more and more frustration with myself, as every mistake stung me like an aggressive wasp, making the journey incredibly painful. I have heard about old piano teachers who hit their students' fingers with a ruler if they made mistakes ... I hope it is a silly myth! Anyone today understands that this kind of teaching is absolutely detrimental - but therefore we should not "punish" ourselves either. And to play so slowly that you simply cannot go wrong is ... zzz ...

So I would rephrase your teacher and say: you must make mistakes, but after you have made them, you must never ignore them.