The Strange Case of Maxim3

[maxim3]

I think I may have created some confusion about myself and my approach to learning the piano. So here I will attempt to give a clearer picture, for anyone interested.

Recently I have been mentioning how I've been 'examining' all sorts of difficult technical exercises, such as Pischna, Brahms, Joseffy, and so on; but the other day I revealed that with hands together, I can just manage to play beginner stuff like the first 20 pages of Czerny's op. 599.

You see, I played a number of different instruments for many years - guitar, drums, and Irish-style flute, mainly. I was trained as a drummer but taught myself everything else. I also studied plenty of music theory and have composed a little music here and there. That all ended many years ago.

But I always failed at the piano, lessons or not. Playing with two hands was too much for my limited brain.

Many months ago, having lots of spare time to kill, I decided to try the keyboard again -- not with the ambition of becoming a performer, but of gaining as much piano competence as possible for the sake of more sophisticated composing. But this time I decided just to play only with my right hand. I started practicing the fundamentals of technique -- scales, arpeggios, double scales, a pile of technical exercises, Hanon, mainly.

You can learn a lot about music with one hand at the piano -- especially if it's a MIDI keyboard and you have a lot of music software.

Shortly after I started this right-hand practicing, I injured my left wrist with bad weightlifting technique (or it might have been pushups.) The doctors are polite but avoid all mention of a permanent cure. It's a slight tendon tear or something. As long as I don't put pressure in certain directions, it's not too inconvienient, and I can still type and do most things. As for the piano, I wasn't using that hand anyway, was I?

Months went by and I am pleased with my right-hand progress.

But for some reason I decided the other day to start trying both hands at the piano once again. I can play some of the stressful left hand techniques like octaves and big chords, it seems, but only for a few minutes at a time. Of course I have no possibility whatsoever of developing an advanced-level left hand; I'll go as far as I can without further damaging myself, and that's that. And if two-hand playing starts once again to discourage me, I'll just go back to one hand, rather than quit altogether. 

So it seems I have an intermediate-level RH and a beginner, slightly crippled LH.

[adodd81802]

I don't think the piano forum is the best place for you. I can't be sure, but I'm massively struggling to see the logic in how your mind works. And I think an unstable mind full of input from other people on an internet forum is not going to be productive for you.

You have admitted that you have no professional or long term goals with the piano, therefore another 6 months off or even a year, to allow your left hand to fully heal is 100% my recommendation.

With the musical background you claim to have, and 'months' of practising the piano, I would not be pleased with your current progress. As it stands you have 0 completed pieces and an injured hand.

Your injury alone should be a wake up call, that you can't just jump online, do some research and set your mind to a certain way of doing things.

If you take exercising seriously - get a trainer
If you take piano seriously - get a teacher
If you are injured - take a rest!

[outin]

You obviously have high demands which can lead to injury. Maybe you expect that having a virtuoso right hand and a virtuoso left hand will make a virtuoso pianist. Well, I never was good at playing just one hand, I find it more difficult mentally than playing both. Even now I hate one hand passages. That must be partly because I have practiced them both together from day one in playing pieces. SIMPLE but musically interesting pieces. The key to coordinating the hands imo is to consider them as one. Maybe not literally, but I feel I have ten fingers that I use in some combination and some of them happen to be stuck into my right arm and others to the left.

In a way I do agree with adodd also...

[dogperson]

No, you do not have an intermediate RH because it can play Czerny.  Levels in piano are not decided by some technical exercise, but what skills you have developed in playing repertoire and. To some extent, the skills required to play it. Since you have an injury, It is totally baffling why you would test with playing octaves.

If you want to play the piano, play music where you can develop the required skills of interpretation, tone, complex rhythms, phrasing and dynamics. You can find music for the RH alone on IMSLP. Now, I’m done replying since you seem to think you are really getting somewhere on the exercise route.

[georgey]

I think I may have created some confusion about myself and my approach to learning the piano. So here I will attempt to give a clearer picture, for anyone interested.

Recently I have been mentioning how I've been 'examining' all sorts of difficult technical exercises, such as Pischna, Brahms, Joseffy, and so on; but the other day I revealed that with hands together, I can just manage to play beginner stuff like the first 20 pages of Czerny's op. 599.

You see, I played a number of different instruments for many years - guitar, drums, and Irish-style flute, mainly. I was trained as a drummer but taught myself everything else. I also studied plenty of music theory and have composed a little music here and there. That all ended many years ago.

But I always failed at the piano, lessons or not. Playing with two hands was too much for my limited brain.

Many months ago, having lots of spare time to kill, I decided to try the keyboard again -- not with the ambition of becoming a performer, but of gaining as much piano competence as possible for the sake of more sophisticated composing. But this time I decided just to play only with my right hand. I started practicing the fundamentals of technique -- scales, arpeggios, double scales, a pile of technical exercises, Hanon, mainly.

You can learn a lot about music with one hand at the piano -- especially if it's a MIDI keyboard and you have a lot of music software.

Shortly after I started this right-hand practicing, I injured my left wrist with bad weightlifting technique (or it might have been pushups.) The doctors are polite but avoid all mention of a permanent cure. It's a slight tendon tear or something. As long as I don't put pressure in certain directions, it's not too inconvienient, and I can still type and do most things. As for the piano, I wasn't using that hand anyway, was I?

Months went by and I am pleased with my right-hand progress.

But for some reason I decided the other day to start trying both hands at the piano once again. I can play some of the stressful left hand techniques like octaves and big chords, it seems, but only for a few minutes at a time. Of course I have no possibility whatsoever of developing an advanced-level left hand; I'll go as far as I can without further damaging myself, and that's that. And if two-hand playing starts once again to discourage me, I'll just go back to one hand, rather than quit altogether. 

So it seems I have an intermediate-level RH and a beginner, slightly crippled LH.

I’ve only read this post of yours.  I’m not sure what kind of feedback you are looking for, if any.  Here are my thoughts.

 “Playing with two hands was too much for my limited brain.” – Not sure what this means.  Everyone has a limited brain but most can learn to play with 2 hands assuming they don’t have physical limitations that prevent this.

“You can learn a lot about music with one hand at the piano -- especially if it's a MIDI keyboard and you have a lot of music software.” – I think I agree with this.

“As for the piano, I wasn't using that hand anyway, was I?” – I guess not since you said you are mainly interested in composing and you use a MIDI keyboard and you have a lot of music software.

“I'll go as far as I can without further damaging myself, and that's that. And if two-hand playing starts once again to discourage me, I'll just go back to one hand, rather than quit altogether.“ – Sounds good to me.  Hopefully you can tell if you are further damaging yourself.  Unfortunately, there are times when people damage themselves without knowing it.  Most of the time, people have signs that damage is occurring such as pain, numbness or reduced strength.  These signs are not always easy to read so be careful.

Best of luck to you and Happy Holidays.

[maxim3]

georgey,

Thanks for your kind words. Indeed in THIS particular post I was not looking for any feedback at all; but I think I inconvenienced some people previously by talking about things as though I were much more advanced in some ways than I really am.

This is possibly a common fault amongst self-educated people.

Your warnings about physical injury are wise. Fear nothing, I am extremely careful and self-aware in that regard, and as I stated, I have no ambition to push my left hand to any large degree. For example, concert pianists might practice octaves for an hour a day, perhaps in the context of preparing certain kinds of repertoire. Myself, I might practice octaves for a few minutes per day, and I long ago learned to stop BEFORE any pain starts.

For laughs, I was just watching Yuja Wang play Ravel's Piano Concerto for the Left Hand, while following the score. I can play one or two measures at a time without discomfort, at a tempo you can easily imagine. Yuja might be playing it more beautifully though, judging by her clothes.

Happy Holidays

[william_ni_guang_xin]

For laughs, I was just watching Yuja Wang play Ravel's Piano Concerto for the Left Hand, while following the score. I can play one or two measures at a time without discomfort, at a tempo you can easily imagine. Yuja might be playing it more beautifully though, judging by her clothes.

Happy Holidays

Do you like Yuja Wang? In my opinion she plays very much like Martha Argerich, techinally flawless, extravagant, but could feel rash at times, like an indelicate child who couldn't eat quietly (just saying...)

Yuja's 3 pieces Pertrouchka is one of the best interpretation of the suite I've heard, but her prokofiev is aweful, also, why doesn't she play the usual ossia cadenza in Rach 3? why does she play the Toccata cadenza? small hands? it couldn't be because the lack of the technique, plus she loves displaying her command of the keyboard, the ossia cadenza is perfect for that!