Let us learn to work on the Internet

[vladimirdounin]

The Internet has changed everything in the world. Any kind of business today necessarily includes on line activities.

Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well.
We need to be ready for this and learn to work on the Internet right now.

I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level of your students or of ANYONE else (from "Mary had a little lamb" to "Islamey" by Balakirev). I will listen and post here a response note with my corrections for our general discussion.

My email for submissions is: vladimir_and_music@yahoo.com

Everyone is welcomed

[perfect_pitch]

Given the hostility you gave towards everyone when you ASSUMED that only you could play the piece 'Traumerei' by Schumann at the correct tempo - I'd say whatever credibility you have has gone down the toilet.

This post seems to scream, I need attention and after this post - I will not be giving you any. I assume this post will wither away much like a vile weed.

[vladimirdounin]

In my post about "Traumerei" you CAN NOT find a single word of hostility. Read it again.
I just INVITED (it is my word in that post) all the pianists to follow my example.
I quote my conclusion, the final words of that post (I just copied them right now):


"I  hope sincerely   that my "record at authentic tempo" will not be  the only one in the world for a long time.

 I would be grateful for the links to these new recordings.

Vladimir Dounin" 


What then is your reason to be hostile towards me?

[perfect_pitch]

"I  hope sincerely   that my "record at authentic tempo" will not be  the only one in the world for a long time.

The question is why hasn't anyone in 180 years since it was written played it at the written tempo. The reason for is that it doesn't sound 'Dreamy' like the title suggests. Playing it at that tempo completely contradicts and doesn't prompt the imagery that the title suggests.

Even Schumanns wife clara had an edition printed where the tempo wasn't 100 crotchet bpm. His own wife didn't even play it at that speed. That says something considering she often played too fast for Robert's liking.

What then is your reason to be hostile towards me?

Your inability to listen to fellow pianists who offered reasonable advice - all of whom disagreed, that you dismissed like a leprous beggar.

[dogperson]

Doesn’t your  offer violate privacy and consent laws?

[vladimirdounin]

Doesn’t your  offer violate privacy and consent laws?

I do not force anybody to take part in these lessons. Only on the base of CONSENT and personal interest.

It is just Internet version of familiar to any musician public Master-class, when everyone watches the lesson in progress on stage. I know perfectly:what does it mean to be a guinea pig (the real role of the student in this case). My teacher called me  several times to different cities just to be his "guinea pig" during his Master-class because no one local pianist wanted to be a subject of general criticism.

However, this role is a perfect vaccination against the fear of stage and complex of inferiority.

Maybe, you know the famous words of German in "Queen of Spades" -
"today is you and tomorrow is me".

Just try it! 

[vladimirdounin]

The question is why hasn't anyone in 180 years since it was written played it at the written tempo. The reason for is that it doesn't sound 'Dreamy' like the title suggests. Playing it at that tempo completely contradicts and doesn't prompt the imagery that the title suggests.

Even Schumanns wife clara had an edition printed where the tempo wasn't 100 crotchet bpm. His own wife didn't even play it at that speed. That says something considering she often played too fast for Robert's liking.

Your inability to listen to fellow pianists who offered reasonable advice - all of whom disagreed, that you dismissed like a leprous beggar.

It looks like discussion with 50 replies and 7000 views on this topic ("Traumerei") was too short for you and today you are eager to continue that old fight.

I do not like to argue on musical topics just with words. Let us argue with our own music. Let us listen to your version of "Traumerei" and compare it to my version. Everyone will decide then: which version is closer to his/her mind and hear? That's all. Why do we need these verbal storms in a glass of water?

I do not force you to play like me. Why do you force me to play and think like somebody else?

[dogperson]

I do not force anybody to take part in these lessons. Only on the base of CONSENT and personal interest.

It is just Internet version of familiar to any musician public Master-class, when everyone watches the lesson in progress on stage. I know perfectly:what does it mean to be a guinea pig (the real role of the student in this case). My teacher called me  several times to different cities just to be his "guinea pig" during his Master-class because no one local pianist wanted to be a subject of general criticism.

However, this role is a perfect vaccination against the fear of stage and complex of inferiority.

Maybe, you know the famous words of German in "Queen of Spades" -
"today is you and tomorrow is me".

Just try it!

Tour response leads me to believe that you will not be just posting your comments,  but would also be posting the audio/video and your comments on the internet.  This information was not clear to me in your original post and would need to be included in any consent form you obtain before you post.

I do not need comments from an unknown pianist, As I have an excellent one for weekly lessons. In addition I take periodic lessons from a concert pianist, where  we do have a master class format throughout the week.

[compline]

The Internet has changed everything in the world. Any kind of business today necessarily includes on line activities.

''Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well.
We need to be ready for this and learn to work on the Internet right now.''





Everyone is welcomed

That is rather an unfounded assumption based on , I would suggest a too heavy emphasis on the role of the internet.   The internet may well be useful, but it is not going to take over all forms of discourse, and infact there are clear signs than people are reverting to simpler methods of communication.


I will stick with visits by my personal tutor, thanks.

[vladimirdounin]

Tour response leads me to believe that you will not be just posting your comments,  but would also be posting the audio/video and your comments on the internet.  This information was not clear to me in your original post and would need to be included in any consent form you obtain before you post.

I do not need comments from an unknown pianist, As I have an excellent one for weekly lessons. In addition I take periodic lessons from a concert pianist, where  we do have a master class format throughout the week.

1. I started such lessons already in a format: video to me - my suggestions and corrections to my student - next video to me done according to my corrections - my corrections etc...  Only  AFTER BOTH of us are  HAPPY with the results, our victorious exchange of videos becomes available for public like a set, like one lesson in a class or on stage on some particular piece. Everyone interested in playing or teaching this piece can see all our steps and the results.
If I did not get OBVIOUS results at EACH lesson, my student will definitely quit our lessons and I worked for nothing. Fortunately, it NEVER happened.

2. Josef Hoffman told that pianist should learn from MANY teachers, the more - the better.
I  took and take lessons from everyone, who wants to teach me (a lot of volunteers always are there around us). Even broken clock point an absolutely correct time twice in each 24 hours. Why then I should not take a lesson from you?
 

[themeandvariation]

"(a lot of volunteers always are there around us). Even broken clock point an absolutely correct time twice in each 24 hours. Why then I should not take a lesson from you? "

Broken clock math- one minute in 720...
You must have a lot of time on your hands.

[vladimirdounin]

I do not need comments from an unknown pianist, As I have an excellent one for weekly lessons. In addition I take periodic lessons from a concert pianist, where  we do have a master class format throughout the week.

Bring here any recordings of your excellent teacher and concert pianist. And I will point: what they do not know and where they are wrong in their performing. I will do it not with my words, of course,  but mostly with my own recording of the same music.

I do not deny at the same time that both of these pianist can know something that is unknown to me. Nobody is perfect and knows everything.

As I told already, I do not need their names and addresses. You do not even need to tell me your relation to these recordings (that it is your teacher or mentioned concert pianist). If you say here that you just found these recordings on the road - it is all right for me. I do not fight with persons, I fight with mistakes - it is my profession, vocation and hobby.

Your HUGE advantage from this way to learn: you have a real choice instead of a believe of blind kitten that somebody teaches you everything you need in your life.

Here is an ocean of  interesting opportunities.  For example, give to your excellent teacher my recent recording of "Fur Elise"

together with my famous, well known to you neighbours on my post (below).

and

and ask his/her opinion: who of these 3 pianists is closer to the truth, who plays better?

Before, answer this question self, of course.

If your choices coincide, your choice for your teacher is right. If your choices are opposite, then you have a good reason to think on this topic more.   

You can give to your excellent teacher only my recording and put here his/her comments on my way to play. My teacher V.Nielsen always told us that people, who hate us, are extremely important and useful for musicians. Because they will pick up each your mistake and report it to you in a most convincing way. No one teacher or friend can do this job so perfectly. After my own concerts I never lost a chance to ask my enemies for comments on my performance. And it helped me a lot.

Do not be afraid. No risk is there. Try!
 

[vladimirdounin]

That is rather an unfounded assumption based on , I would suggest a too heavy emphasis on the role of the internet.   The internet may well be useful, but it is not going to take over all forms of discourse, and infact there are clear signs than people are reverting to simpler methods of communication.


I will stick with visits by my personal tutor, thanks.

In my city a lot of businesses including giants  like Sears and Walmart closed their branches because of Amazon.

Imagine that I am your potential student. Why I have to go to you and spend an hour plus gas on the road, if I can have the same or even better for lower price on line? Why I have to pay for your driving to me, if you come for lesson to my home?

No one teacher will let me to practice immediately in his/her presence to fix a mistake that needs to be fixed. And after you pointed 11 mistakes to me during our lesson, I already forgot the first 3.

My students on Internet continue our lessons only after they fixed all the problems from the previous lesson. It can take 5 minutes for them, or 5 hours, or 5 weeks. Any new information needs some time to be digested, not only swallowed. If I paid $ 100 for your one hour lesson, I am pressurized to take in my head as much information as possible and be simply choked with it quite often.

On the other side, if I paid you just a couple dollars dollars per each your answer, comment, advise on Internet, then I can afford 10 and even more contacts with you per day according to MY pace of work on some piece. Sometimes, I invited my favourite students to practice in my home, when I am busy with something else, but they have chance to ask me about anything a few times per each hour (before competitions, exams etc.) It proved to be an extremely effective way of communication with the teacher.
The Internet gives the same opportunity to everyone, not only to favourite ones.
 

[vladimirdounin]

"(a lot of volunteers always are there around us). Even broken clock point an absolutely correct time twice in each 24 hours. Why then I should not take a lesson from you? "

Broken clock math- one minute in 720...
You must have a lot of time on your hands.

If you have the ability to distinguish genuine values ​​from garbage, you can learn from anyone. If you do not have this ability, even the best teacher will lead you to a dead end.

One vehicle cannot be controlled by two drivers at the same time. A pianist cannot have control from a non-personal brain, even if it is an excellent teacher’s brain. Only from his own, capable of thinking critically and taking own decisions.

[perfect_pitch]

Bring here any recordings of your excellent teacher and concert pianist. And I will point: what they do not know and where they are wrong in their performing. I will do it not with my words, of course,  but mostly with my own recording of the same music.

So you're saying that our teachers are wrong, and you are right... WOW!!!







I don't mind working on the internet - but I refuse to work with you, simply because of your quoted statement above.

[vladimirdounin]

So you're saying that our teachers are wrong, and you are right... WOW!!!






I don't mind working on the internet - but I refuse to work with you, simply because of your quoted statement above.

What is your reason to be so unfair and dishonest in our discussion?

Read the WHOLE paragraph, please. It says absolutely different, practically opposite to what you blame me for.

Bring here any recordings of your excellent teacher and concert pianist. And I will point: what they do not know and where they are wrong in their performing. I will do it not with my words, of course,  but mostly with my own recording of the same music.

I do not deny at the same time that both of these pianist can know something that is unknown to me. Nobody is perfect and knows everything.

[perfect_pitch]

You know what - I'm done with this thread. It seems to exist only to feed your egotism and I will no longer be part of it.

[vladimirdounin]

You know what - I'm done with this thread. It seems to exist only to feed your egotism and I will no longer be part of it.

I am upset by your decision and I will miss you. Come back, please!

[keypeg]

dogperson: Doesn’t your  offer violate privacy and consent laws?
I do not force anybody to take part in these lessons. Only on the base of CONSENT and personal interest.

It is just Internet version of familiar to any musician public Master-class, when everyone watches the lesson in progress on stage. ....

You are inviting teachers to share with you the playing of their students, and those students will likely also be underage.  It is the privacy and consent of the students which is the concern.
Likewise, if someone submits their teacher's playing, even anonymously (not naming the teacher), if that playing was shared privately in order to teach, the same problem arises.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

If you want to critique performances and offer "corrections", why don't you comment on recordings in the audition room? Some people might appreciate the feedback.

[vladimirdounin]

You are inviting teachers to share with you the playing of their students, and those students will likely also be underage.  It is the privacy and consent of the students which is the concern.
Likewise, if someone submits their teacher's playing, even anonymously (not naming the teacher), if that playing was shared privately in order to teach, the same problem arises.

Theoretically, you are right with all these concerns. And maybe I am wrong giving here a practical advise to my potential students: how to go around with all of them.

Let us talk seriously: if I put on Internet audio-recording of "Mary had a little lamb" plaid by the known only to me (but not to anyone else in the world) student of my friend, then how much do you have to spend to prove the fact that this is NOT my own recording (as I falsely claim it on Internet)?

In my estimation, the whole yearly budged of the whole  USA and decades of the work of the best laboratories of the world  would be not enough for this investigation.

But tell me, please, who and what forces you NOT to play for my testing self saying to me that it is just a recording of your grand-grandfather, who died more than 70 years ago, so it is a public domain?

[vladimirdounin]

If you want to critique performances and offer "corrections", why don't you comment on recordings in the audition room? Some people might appreciate the feedback.

Maybe it is a good idea. Thank you!

The problem is that I need the same student for several lessons in a raw on the same piece to show an effectiveness of my corrections. Usually, a new student can understand at his/her FIRST lesson 100 times less than at the 10th or 20th.

[vladimirdounin]

If you want to critique performances and offer "corrections", why don't you comment on recordings in the audition room? Some people might appreciate the feedback.

LET US TURN THE TABLES

I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a musical cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?