So I got a masters in music now

[rachmaninoff_forever]

So I’ve spent six years in college paying an institution to practice and here are some of my thoughts as they pop up in my head if anyone cares about this kinda thing

1.  Degrees don’t mean sh*t I’ve seen people with DMA’s who suck and I’ve seen highschool kids who are better and more knowledgeable than them.  BUT once you get your bachelors and masters you can all the sudden amp up the price of everything you do and people take you more seriously which I think is 100% stupid but whatever I’m benefiting from the culture I hate

2.  The most important thing about the school is the TEACHER, FACILITIES, LOCATION and the STUDENT CULTURE.  A lot of highschool kids get caught up in the brand name of the school including me but it don’t mean a thing.  I got into MSM for my masters but like half of the practice rooms there are digital pianos and the facilities are 100% garbage and wanted me to pay 60k a year so I decided not to go there.  Perfect example about how having a big name don’t mean anything.  The only thing good that comes out of school brand name is that you can brag about how you went to Juilliard at parties it to non musicians at party’s and you can put it on your tinder profile.  But employers don’t give a sh*t about that most of the time they don’t even read your resume

3.  Everyone who says it’s hard to make a living as a pianist and you’ll forever be a starving artist either suck or they’re a non musician.  Where the heck did that narrative come from???  Don’t EVER listen to ANYONE who ever says that ever they’re *** stupid and are failures and was never meant to be a professional musician in the first place.  I remember in highschool everyone told me that tryna scare me out of it or whatever and it was one of the best decisions of my life not listening to those idiots.  Don’t listen to ANYONE unless they’re tryna help you succeed in what you wanna do.  If you really like music don’t worry about the money you’ll figure it out

4.  You don’t need school to learn theory/auralskills/musicianship/history/technique whatever.  You can learn all that junk outside of school and tbh I think the way they teach it at most schools puts you in a box and they don’t do a good job at teaching it.  So if you’re thinking of going to school to improve at that sort of thing don’t go it’s a waste of money just go on YouTube and Wikipedia

5.  Life as a music major isn’t as hard as everyone makes it out to be as long as you enjoy it or whatever it’s easy. 

6.  Do a lot of chamber/large ensemble/contemporary/different genres of music.  The more well versed you are the more gigs you get.  Don’t get caught up in just doing classical music

7.  GRADES DON’T MATTER.  I had like 4 or 5 D’s in undergrad and employers do not give a sh*t about what your grades are don’t even put it in your resume.  Unless if you’re going for your masters in performance you need a 3 for most schools and for musicology a 3.25.  But if you gotta study for a Greek mythology class or practice you should prioritize practicing instead.  sh*t I’d even prioritize partying instead.   

[maxim3]

I think 99% of academia is bullshit edbiz. I have a Master's myself, don't ask in what, but certainly not music = )

All that aside however, congratulations! I think you're implying you just finished up and got your degree. Good show.

[georgey]

I think 99% of academia is bullshit edbiz. I have a Master's myself, don't ask in what, but certainly not music = )

All that aside however, congratulations! I think you're implying you just finished up and got your degree. Good show.

Congrats on your Master's also.  May I ask in what field?  I understand if you would rather not answer.  I only have Bachelor's degrees in music and math.  The reason I ask your field: my math degree and job that I am retired from completely effects how I view things.  Everything is percent this and percent that and probability of this and probability of that.  I'm wondering how your field may have influenced your approach to learning music.  You seem to be exploring a lot of ideas at this point.

Rachmaninoff_Forever - Congrats on your Master's in music degree!

[maxim3]

I'd rather not say -- except that my degrees are nowhere near as respectable as a degree in math (or even one in music)

[outin]

So I’ve spent six years in college paying an institution to practice and here are some of my thoughts as they pop up in my head if anyone cares about this kinda thing




3.  Everyone who says it’s hard to make a living as a pianist and you’ll forever be a starving artist either suck or they’re a non musician.  Where the heck did that narrative come from???  Don’t EVER listen to ANYONE who ever says that ever they’re *** stupid and are failures and was never meant to be a professional musician in the first place.  I remember in highschool everyone told me that tryna scare me out of it or whatever and it was one of the best decisions of my life not listening to those idiots.  Don’t listen to ANYONE unless they’re tryna help you succeed in what you wanna do.  If you really like music don’t worry about the money you’ll figure it out

It doesn't hurt to be a cute guy either

Anyway, I am very proud of you for sticking to your chosen path despite the obstacles and all the BS that comes with it! I think I will even let you keep the hands a little longer so that they can earn you some fame and fortune...you can deliver them personally when you get a gig in this part of the world

[rachmaninoff_forever]

It doesn't hurt to be a cute guy either

Anyway, I am very proud of you for sticking to your chosen path despite the obstacles and all the BS that comes with it! I think I will even let you keep the hands a little longer so that they can earn you some fame and fortune...you can deliver them personally when you get a gig in this part of the world

Where do you live again?

I started getting into jazz and music production so idk if that’s something you’d like lol

[outin]

Where do you live again?

I started getting into jazz and music production so idk if that’s something you’d like lol

Well, for piano music I prefer classical...otherwise jazz is fine.

And I don't live that far...in Northern Europe

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Well, for piano music I prefer classical...otherwise jazz is fine.

And I don't live that far...in Northern Europe

Eh it’s like not really jazz anymore it’s more like neo soul Latin Jazz R&B hip hop funk fusion stuff...?

[j_tour]

So, do you prefer to be called "Master" or is just "Sir" adequate?   

I'm curious what made you to do MFA in performance rather than in musicology.  You gave quite a delightful point-by-point list of the true facts in your OP, which was interesting.  (Seriously, MSM actually has such sh*t equipment?  Ergh.  If anyone is to blame it's the administrators and whoever got stuck chairing the department.  That's a shame.)

And, an MFA is a terminal degree, AFAICR — is it true that it's not common practice to waive tuition and fees, at the very least for such degrees?

Apparently it is, but when I was in grad school, the basic idea was, if you have to pay for it, you shouldn't go.  I was in literature, as a doctoral student, but I'm still curious about the differences.  And, yes, I still am in debt for times when my stipend for teaching wasn't enough to live on.

[outin]

Eh it’s like not really jazz anymore it’s more like neo soul Latin Jazz R&B hip hop funk fusion stuff...?

If you leave out the latin and the silly modern R&B/hiphop from the mix that would be very much to my taste...I am old enough to remember the times when this music was new and innovative:)

But I will always think piano as an instrument only suits classical music. The exception that  proves the rule is T Monk.

[georgey]

IBut I will always think piano as an instrument only suits classical music. The exception that  proves the rule is T Monk.

You mean A Tatum. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

If you leave out the latin and the silly modern R&B/hiphop from the mix that would be very much to my taste...I am old enough to remember the times when this music was new and innovative:)

But I will always think piano as an instrument only suits classical music. The exception that  proves the rule is T Monk.

PSSSSSSSSSSSSH hater 

You know a lot of jazz comes from Latin music right?

And R&B/Hiphop is totally innovative you just don’t listen to it enough let me hook you up to some stuff to listen to

[outin]

PSSSSSSSSSSSSH hater 

You know a lot of jazz comes from Latin music right?

And R&B/Hiphop is totally innovative you just don’t listen to it enough let me hook you up to some stuff to listen to

I referred to the stuff that is popular today... I grew up with this kind of music and I think 90% of what is done today is repetitive crap. Of course there's still some good stuff produced even today if one digs deeper.

I don't like latin rhythms, that's all. I don't like all kinds of jazz either, just as I don't like all types of classical piano music. Still don't get why people want to listen to or play Beethoven or Mozart...

Also cross-over in music is generally a no. I am a purist, whatever genre you choose stick to it! Some fusion is ok, but mixing jazz with classical or that kind is mostly just embarassing.

I am a hater indeed

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Also cross-over in music is generally a no. I am a purist, whatever genre you choose stick to it! Some fusion is ok, but mixing jazz with classical or that kind is mostly just embarassing.

I am a hater indeed

That’s one thing we can agree with

Kapustin etudes suck I said what I said

[cuberdrift]

Great post there, and congrats on your new degree! (I'm a soon-to-be graduate of Music of our local conservatory).

I like rachmaninoff_forever's no-nonsense approach to explaining music. It's a refreshing alternative to the usual intellectual hocus pocus that is sometimes overly detailed when the points expressed tend to be simpler IMHO.

I especially enjoyed your rant about those "idiots" who try to discourage you from doing music. 

In any case, I'm having a few questions to rachmaninoff_forever:

1. Seeing as you are into popular music, why do you think there are only a few ragtime enthusiasts amongst African Americans? Do you think it's because they "evolved" their music to modern hip hop and funk while the whites study ragtime as something of a "classical" music?

2. Why does there seem to be an under-representation of Africans or African Americans in classical music? I mean actually there are hardly any non-Caucasian/East Asian piano virtuosos after all, come to think of it. But I've always wondered why there seem to be so few of them classical black players.

3. Do you think it would be cool to have a new musical approach combining elements of "traditional" classical teaching combined with more "popular music style" methods, i.e. improvisation & chord reading stuff? I mean, heck this was the way it was actually done before the advent of the musical conservatory. I always thought the old approach to Western music had a lot of interesting elements that modern classical training somehow does away with (improvisation, mixture of performance with composition, incorporation of popular music into piano performance, etc.).

4. Why do you hate Kapustin etudes?

With all that aside, I also wonder why most classical players don't include jazz or popular music-style repertoire in recitals. I mean, we have Gershwin, Kapustin, and on rare occasions Gottschalk (and Stravinsky and Poulenc and co. where "somewhat" influenced by jazz but that's not jazz), but there's hardly stuff like that in most standard piano repertoire.

There's that famous stereotype of classical players being "unable to swing". Which should be unjustified. Take an Art Tatum transcription, master it note-for-note, add a swing feel - boom. A classical interpretation complete with swing. It shouldn't be impossible!

It might have something to do with classical music being primarily more of a European thing. Maybe.

BTW FYI I'm Southeast Asian.

Also to outin: I also don't particularly dig crossover, I think a lot of it is generally entertaining on the surface but tends to get corny.

And I'm so annoyed at those classical parodies where they get some famous pop tune and pretend to play it in the style of a classical composer when they just get popular pieces by that classical composer and weave it into that pop tune's chord progression. 

[thalbergmad]

Well done old boy. Good work.

Thal

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Great post there, and congrats on your new degree! (I'm a soon-to-be graduate of Music of our local conservatory).

I like rachmaninoff_forever's no-nonsense approach to explaining music. It's a refreshing alternative to the usual intellectual hocus pocus that is sometimes overly detailed when the points expressed tend to be simpler IMHO.

I especially enjoyed your rant about those "idiots" who try to discourage you from doing music. 

In any case, I'm having a few questions to rachmaninoff_forever:

1. Seeing as you are into popular music, why do you think there are only a few ragtime enthusiasts amongst African Americans? Do you think it's because they "evolved" their music to modern hip hop and funk while the whites study ragtime as something of a "classical" music?

2. Why does there seem to be an under-representation of Africans or African Americans in classical music? I mean actually there are hardly any non-Caucasian/East Asian piano virtuosos after all, come to think of it. But I've always wondered why there seem to be so few of them classical black players.

3. Do you think it would be cool to have a new musical approach combining elements of "traditional" classical teaching combined with more "popular music style" methods, i.e. improvisation & chord reading stuff? I mean, heck this was the way it was actually done before the advent of the musical conservatory. I always thought the old approach to Western music had a lot of interesting elements that modern classical training somehow does away with (improvisation, mixture of performance with composition, incorporation of popular music into piano performance, etc.).

4. Why do you hate Kapustin etudes?

With all that aside, I also wonder why most classical players don't include jazz or popular music-style repertoire in recitals. I mean, we have Gershwin, Kapustin, and on rare occasions Gottschalk (and Stravinsky and Poulenc and co. where "somewhat" influenced by jazz but that's not jazz), but there's hardly stuff like that in most standard piano repertoire.

There's that famous stereotype of classical players being "unable to swing". Which should be unjustified. Take an Art Tatum transcription, master it note-for-note, add a swing feel - boom. A classical interpretation complete with swing. It shouldn't be impossible!

It might have something to do with classical music being primarily more of a European thing. Maybe.

BTW FYI I'm Southeast Asian.

Also to outin: I also don't particularly dig crossover, I think a lot of it is generally entertaining on the surface but tends to get corny.

And I'm so annoyed at those classical parodies where they get some famous pop tune and pretend to play it in the style of a classical composer when they just get popular pieces by that classical composer and weave it into that pop tune's chord progression. 

That’s a lot uuuuuuuuuuh...

1.  We don’t like it cause it’s considered ‘high art’ now.  Black music has always been anti culture/anti structure/anti establishment music so when it’s taken and commercialized and turned into this high class thing it goes completely against everything it’s meant to be so we can’t relate to it and don’t *** with it anymore.  Same thing happened with the end of the swing and beginning of the bebop era.  Swing was cool but then white bands started getting more credit and started commercializing it so we were like nah we’re not doing that anymore we’re gonna start doing wild fast 400bpm melodies with heavy percussion and weird instrument combos.  Everyone shitted on bebop when it first came out but now it’s the foundation for all American non-classical music and improvisation today

2.  Eh it’s complicated but it’s mainly a class thing.  Black people are poor so we go to public schools but since public schools are funded by local taxes they cut music programs cause we can’t afford them.  So that means no exposure so no interest in the genre and even if we were interested we can’t afford lessons anyways cause they’re expensive.  And because it’s dominated by white culture we don’t really have any cultural input so a lot of us exposed still take no interest.  I’ve had black people tell me they don’t listen to the music cause it comes from a time where it was socially acceptable for white people to say nigg nigg nigg all the time.  So It’s a cycle that keeps feeding itself.  It took a whole 8 years for the first time I met another black classical pianist in person which was one of my teachers in undergrad and that’s it.  I’m the only one I know of in Chicago and there was only one other black classical musician in my class who graduated with me.  Every black pianist I interact with on the regular is through Instagram

4.  Cause it’s fake jazz it’s that weird classical jazz fusion thing

3.  The whole thing with the lack of composition in classical music is Liszts fault.  Before him classical pianists were all composers as well but he broke the practice and now being a composer is a separate thing.  I don’t think it’s that big of a deal though cause there’s a ton of really good classical music to go around.  When I teach my kids I try not to separate all the genres cause I think it makes you a better musician that way and the tradition of everything being separated despite everything being in the same geographical location is a racist practice and Im tryna not do that.  If you do that however it doesn’t make you racist or anything but the whole segregation of classical or anything European originated vs pop and everything black originated comes from a racist tradition which is complicated and a lot of history involved and another topic for another thread lol

[rachmaninoff_forever]

With all that aside, I also wonder why most classical players don't include jazz or popular music-style repertoire in recitals. I mean, we have Gershwin, Kapustin, and on rare occasions Gottschalk (and Stravinsky and Poulenc and co. where "somewhat" influenced by jazz but that's not jazz), but there's hardly stuff like that in most standard piano repertoire.

There's that famous stereotype of classical players being "unable to swing". Which should be unjustified. Take an Art Tatum transcription, master it note-for-note, add a swing feel - boom. A classical interpretation complete with swing. It shouldn't be impossible!

It might have something to do with classical music being primarily more of a European thing. Maybe.

BTW FYI I'm Southeast Asian.

Also to outin: I also don't particularly dig crossover, I think a lot of it is generally entertaining on the surface but tends to get corny.

And I'm so annoyed at those classical parodies where they get some famous pop tune and pretend to play it in the style of a classical composer when they just get popular pieces by that classical composer and weave it into that pop tune's chord progression. 

Actually as an encore for my graduation recital I played infant eyes by Wayne shorter it’s a really nice song.  I wanted to get my keytar and talkbox and do a cover of a Bruno Mars  song but my teacher is SUPER traditional and is really mean so I was too scared to.  But he didn’t show up to my recital anyways so I should’ve done it. 

Dude that stereotype comes from the stupid tradition of everything being separated as said in my previous post

I agree I always thought classical music memes and parodies were lame.

[jason_sioco]

I have a bachelor of arts degree (music) at york university and it's all meaningless. It's not so much of having a degree, it's what you do with the degree. I believe I put my endeavors to good use. I may not be PHD in music, no not even that close. But my relative pitch and play by ear stuff is mighty and incredible and I will only get better and better in there. So you can call me the "mighty-undergrad!!!"    

[quantum]

Congrats! 

Actually as an encore for my graduation recital I played infant eyes by Wayne shorter it’s a really nice song.  I wanted to get my keytar and talkbox and do a cover of a Bruno Mars  song but my teacher is SUPER traditional and is really mean so I was too scared to.  But he didn’t show up to my recital anyways so I should’ve done it. 

It's only a grad recital, it's only school...  Just make your prof happy while you are there.  You are free to change your mind and do whatever you want afterwards.


For my grad recital my piano teacher wanted me to do some stuff I didn't exactly agree to.  So I obliged for the recital.  Afterwards, I recorded my recital music again, however, using my own artistic vision. 

[mrcreosote]

I went to a Community Outreach recital for Seton Hill College in Greensburg Pa.  This is a VERY small school in a county of small towns.

One high school girl played some Brahms that totally blew me away - it was competition caliber.  So I searched her name and found that she competed for a local talent competition and only made an honorable mention in the high school piano class.  This meant there were three other kids better than her!

Multiply this by 500 and that is the amount of talented high school kids.

Then take all the piano competitions out there.  Every entrant is wonderful and highly skilled.  But only 1 wins. 

Of those winners, there are scores per year and over the past 10 years at least 500 winners (maybe 1000?  or more?)

Even if you want to teach at a music school, just look at the talent that passes through there every year and how few openings there are.

I suppose one approach would be to not give up and be the "last man standing" with regard to making money, however, the labor pool is being constantly refreshed each year.

Of course if it is your calling/destiny, you must do what you must do.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I went to a Community Outreach recital for Seton Hill College in Greensburg Pa.  This is a VERY small school in a county of small towns.

One high school girl played some Brahms that totally blew me away - it was competition caliber.  So I searched her name and found that she competed for a local talent competition and only made an honorable mention in the high school piano class.  This meant there were three other kids better than her!

Multiply this by 500 and that is the amount of talented high school kids.

Then take all the piano competitions out there.  Every entrant is wonderful and highly skilled.  But only 1 wins. 

Of those winners, there are scores per year and over the past 10 years at least 500 winners (maybe 1000?  or more?)

Even if you want to teach at a music school, just look at the talent that passes through there every year and how few openings there are.

I suppose one approach would be to not give up and be the "last man standing" with regard to making money, however, the labor pool is being constantly refreshed each year.

Of course if it is your calling/destiny, you must do what you must do.

It’s only like 60% how you play IMO

The rest is having people like you and being at the right place at the right time

[outin]

It’s only like 60% how you play IMO

The rest is having people like you and being at the right place at the right time

And looking good without a shirt!

[aclaussen]

Deleted

[ranjit]

And I'm pretty sure you're wrong about Liszt though. If you look at a lot of his students: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pupils_of_Franz_Liszt
they were also composers.

About Liszt - I think rachforever's point is that Liszt started the practice of having solo recitals without sheet music, performing others' works and virtuosic showmanship, etc. But I personally wouldn't blame Liszt for it because I think that would have happened anyway, with the increasing complexity of the music and demands made on the pianist.