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Need better eye tracking (?) (Read 945 times)

Offline mjames

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Need better eye tracking (?)
« on: August 25, 2019, 08:53:28 AM »
I have an issue for Chopin's ballade

=480

Minute 7:58

I can't seem to play that part on tempo. Repetition doesn't work because it's not an issue of technique, I can play it fluently just not with both hands. I noticed my problem: I take my eyes off my right hand, and a few mistakes start popping out. I take my eyes off my left hand, mistakes start popping out on the left. I don't think I've ever encountered this problem before. Usually if a passage that necessitates eye tracking only required it for either one of the hands, not both. If it didn't the hands were close enough that I didn't need to specifically focus on either of them. This time they're just too far apart...quick arperggios on one side and quick run with a jump on the other...
it's frustrating because it's not even difficult, I just need my eyes to keep track of my hands. Similar issue occurs during the end of the coda.

Like how do I overcome this? Get a better brain lol?

Offline georgey

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Re: Need better eye tracking (?)
«Reply #1 on: August 25, 2019, 03:48:50 PM »
Just to get discussion started.  As you know I donít play piano, so this idea may be worthless. 

Look at the problem measure that starts at 7:59. There are 12 left hand notes in this measure. How about playing this (only temporarily) with modified notes in the left hand as follows:  Play notes of the left hand 1 octave lower than written for notes 4,5,6 and notes 10,11,12.  (Notice how this will mimic the style of the last 6 left hand notes of the measure that immediately comes before this problem measure.)   After you can play this modified measure well and with confidence (both hands together), try playing the correct notes and see if this helps*. Can similarly modify the measure that comes after the problem measure in question.

* - Need to continue to practice the LH alone as written by Chopin for this to have a chance of working.  EDIT: Ideally practice to the point where you can play the LH by itself without looking at it

Offline georgey

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Re: Need better eye tracking (?)
«Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 01:48:59 AM »
My thought is 1 hand (probably the left hand) will need to be able to play its part without visual help.  Or maybe a tiny left hand peek for a 10th of a second for large left hand jump from high note to low F note.  EDIT after looking again: It's just an octave jump.

Sorry Mjames if my suggestion is keeping others from helping.  Just trying to get discussion started. Glad you're working on this great piece!!  :)

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Need better eye tracking (?)
«Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 07:47:28 AM »
Imo you need to have the left hand secure without the need to look at what it's doing, that way you can focus on the rh which is more intricate. I assume the problem is missing lh notes, rather than the 9 v 6? Being largely self-taught I'm slightly hesitant to provide a generic solution, but practice the lh in groups of six until each group is fluent; it really needs to be second nature and something you can do without thinking, like a standard waltz accompaniment pattern would be. If you've got to that stage and it's still going wrong, I'm a bit mystified and you might have to try slow practice.

Offline goldentone

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Re: Need better eye tracking (?)
«Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 10:04:18 AM »
Imo you need to have the left hand secure without the need to look at what it's doing, that way you can focus on the rh which is more intricate.

The dotted 16th trill followed by the triplet 16th looks and sounds like a syncopative challenge to me.  Even Rubinstein comes off sounding stilted or mechanical.  That looks like your culprit, which Ronde highlights.  Be sure to slow down your practice of it at the point where you can play it cohesively.
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

Offline georgey

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Re: Need better eye tracking (?)
«Reply #5 on: August 27, 2019, 03:34:28 AM »
Imo you need to have the left hand secure without the need to look at what it's doing, that way you can focus on the rh which is more intricate. I assume the problem is missing lh notes, rather than the 9 v 6? Being largely self-taught I'm slightly hesitant to provide a generic solution, but practice the lh in groups of six until each group is fluent; it really needs to be second nature and something you can do without thinking, like a standard waltz accompaniment pattern would be. If you've got to that stage and it's still going wrong, I'm a bit mystified and you might have to try slow practice.

Great advice!!  JUST FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES:

The dreaded slow practice:  Where do you look when doing this?  If slow enough, then you can jump around with your eyes, which will not work when speeding up.  Possible suggestion with slow practice (IF this is needed as last resort): Keep eyes on the right hand only.  EDIT: LH jump is just an octave that should need no visual aid.

I sometimes think there may be cases when slow practice is not efficient.  This MAY be an example.

"it really needs to be second nature and something you can do without thinking, like a standard waltz accompaniment pattern would be."  - I agree - This seems to be the key here.

Playing with the simplified LH version I suggested in my original post here may give the player an immediate feel for what it would be like if the LH figure was "second nature".  It  may be worth a try as a "temporary stepping stone" to make crossing the creek a little easier.

Offline mjames

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Re: Need better eye tracking (?)
«Reply #6 on: September 07, 2019, 02:59:14 PM »
I didn't do much, played it with my eyes closed and it kinda forced my muscle memory to step up. As I sped up with my eyes opened the mistakes were severely reduced. Don't really need to look at either hand now...

I guess it was just an issue of not being comfortable enough with it.

Thanks for replies! Making sure to respond so you guys know your posts helped a lot :))

Offline ignaceii

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Re: Need better eye tracking (?)
«Reply #7 on: January 06, 2020, 02:26:44 PM »
You might be mentally retarted as you said of me regarding Yuyu Wang 😎😎😎...

Remember Wang only limits her repertoire to virtuosic for the virtuosity pieces.
I know listen to Brendels performance of Petrouchka by Prokofiev or Wang ?
She seems to know only that.
What a depth in Brendel at 24. With an enormous insight.
NYT titles Virtuosity would even stop A. Cortot from entering Juliard !

And the NyT puts other calibrers against Wang...
But more profound. And if you need to pick stars, pick those who showed enormous maturity at the big 5 competitions.
In this way lot of great geniusses have been trashcanned in favour of some Chinese with little big trophees.
And Bhozanov, tackled by the the Chopin Institute, is one of those.

American ?
I thought so. Disney lover.
Come and listen to the Leeds, Tsjaikovsky,ao big exams.

Bit retarted yes. But by far not like you.
As french Music radio broadcasted, the Wangs, Langs, stirred up by the commercial richdom not more , not less, afraid of Schubert, Mozart...

The whole 21th century, with some great poetic extensions can be regarded as robotic commercialistic playing. They will play the price.
You already.