Reverb/Reflections in piano room

[omgbruce]

i have a schimmel 6'3 grand in a room that is about 22 feet and 16 feet with hard tiled floors and vaulted ceiling.  right now im having a problem with too much reverb when i play my piano and its making my sound mushy. another problem is i have a lot of reflection coming from the bottom of the piano.

im trying to fix the problem with the reflection coming off the ground from the bottom of the piano by putting blankets underneat the piano. i want to get something that looks nice and might do a better job of deadening the sound than my blankets. i was thinking of some sort of rug but i dont know which size would suit a piano that is 6'3.  can you peeps suggests some places to buy rugs that would be good for a piano (if the rug helps even).

the problem with having too much reverb i have asked my friends and they told me to acoustically treat my room with some auralex, but my piano is in the living room so i would like to have some style instead of foam on the walls.  auralex also cost quite a bit anybody know of a cheaper alternative?

:O

also to get a better idea. if any of you folks have a grand piano in a room setting similar to mine could you upload a picture of the room so i can get an idea of what you used to help reduce reverb and how you placed your piano.

 

[faulty_damper]

I have this same problem but the piano is sitting on top of a rug.  Actually, because of the rugs and the curtains with hardwood floor, the sound I get isn't the echoing that's the problem, it's just too loud and bright, causing me to go deaf.

You could try a carpet instead of a rug, the thick kind and it should be cheaper than a rug.  It won't be as pretty as  rug but you can get it in any size to fit under the piano.

And if you can use curtains on the windows, try that as well.

[richard w]

Basically, hard surfaces reflect sound and soft surfaces absorb sound. Any kind of soft furnishings will absorb the sound, be it a sofa or curtains. A wall-to-wall carpet will reduce a lot of the echo. Try a few things out and see what works both acoustically and aesthetically.


Regarding pianos that are too loud... I had a real problem with my Steingraber upright - after an hour of playing my ears just couldn't take any more, and this in a fully carpeted room with full-length velvet curtains. A temporary solution was a blanket over the top of the piano, but it didn't work quite as well as I wanted it to. In the end, I built a wooden frame about the same size as the visible area of the soundboard from the back of the instrument and put a duvet over it. I then wedged the wood-duvet structure between the wall and the back of the piano. The result was a massive reduction in sound. Granted, the piano hasn't been enhanced tonally by this, but it means my ears don't tire even if I play all day. (No, that pleasure is reserved for my wrists  .) You could do a similar thing with the underneath of a grand piano, but you'd have to be a bit more clever with your method, and you'd also have to accept a slight (but completely reversible) degradation in the appearance of your instrument. I'm not sure how effective it would be, but it has to be better than going deaf.



Richard.

[xvimbi]

Regarding pianos that are too loud... I had a real problem with my Steingraber upright - after an hour of playing my ears just couldn't take any more, and this in a fully carpeted room with full-length velvet curtains. A temporary solution was a blanket over the top of the piano, but it didn't work quite as well as I wanted it to. In the end, I built a wooden frame about the same size as the visible area of the soundboard from the back of the instrument and put a duvet over it. I then wedged the wood-duvet structure between the wall and the back of the piano. The result was a massive reduction in sound. Granted, the piano hasn't been enhanced tonally by this, but it means my ears don't tire even if I play all day. (No, that pleasure is reserved for my wrists  .) You could do a similar thing with the underneath of a grand piano, but you'd have to be a bit more clever with your method, and you'd also have to accept a slight (but completely reversible) degradation in the appearance of your instrument. I'm not sure how effective it would be, but it has to be better than going deaf.

Earplugs?

[faulty_damper]

Earplugs?  I've tried it.  All it does is make the ringing from my tinnitus more audible.

[faulty_damper]

I just put a sheep skin rug under the soundboard but on top of the bracing beams of the piano.  It fits and it significantly softened the sound.  I think a sheepskin rug can be purchased for less than $100 for the larger size ones, and $50 for a small lamb skin.

[dinosaurtales]

I have a similar problem.  It wil simply require "playing" with the room a bit to find the best combination for you, but.....

a lot of the sound comes from the bottom of the piano and is bounced off the floor.  Also walls and windows (glass is particularly reflective) will bounce a lot of souind.  Different effects are desired by different folks......  for example, my teacher has hardwood floors and nothing under the piano, but has thick draperies on the walls over the windowed areas.  She likes the sound of the reflection off the floor and uses the drapes to absorb.   I would probably use a similar approach in my room - I am still messing with it - but others would use a thick rug under the piano, and light drapes around the room.  The cool thing about drapes is that they can be drawn and squished together in almost any combination for brightness you want on a given day.  It's easy to use towels, blankets, and other materials to "experiment" before blowing the big bucks on drapes and rugs!

[jr11]

Loud is power! Nothing like staring down the vast expanse of the piano strings and unleasing that 16 tons of kinetic energy into your soul. Pure inspiration! Let 'er rip! Why on earth would you want to subdue that?

[pnavas]

Neighbours, perhaps!

I am currently going to buy an upright, live in a flat and have a living room of about 25 sq meters (about 270sq. feet). No carpets or lugs, the floor is made out of wood.

I live in the ground floor, so I do not have neighbours underneath. But I have them beside and above.

I would like to buy a yamaha u3, but I am thinking about the u1, since perhaps the u3 might be too loud, even for me, under such conditions, and specially after having read what Richard W has written about headaches.

Since the investment is quite high, I would not mind in going for the u3, but the loudness worries me.

What do you think ? do you know any relationship about room/piano size ?

Thanks

Pedro

[chickering9]

Neighbours, perhaps!

Not my neighbors.  Wednesday night, they had some sort of 5-man drum fest that went on for hours.  I skipped my usual 7-9 p.m. practice so as to not muddy their pleasure with my Beethoven and DeBussy.

But, in retaliation, last night I put the concert grand on the big stick and focused my practice repetoire on all my passionate Latin pieces with big FFFF crescendos and compelling rhythms.  If they retalitate tonight, tomorrow I'll plug the digital into the 2700-watt stereo system and use the pipe organ voice.  And sight play some Bach for the first time.  That'll fix 'em.  I hate to bring out the Doomsday weapon, but civilization is at stake. 

[richard w]

If they retalitate tonight, tomorrow I'll plug the digital into the 2700-watt stereo system and use the pipe organ voice.

PMPO or RMS?

As a student, I lived in some canal-side accommodation. On occasion, fishermen would collect right outside my room, which was on the ground floor. On one occasion, I put the second movement of Webern's Variations for Piano on, all 59 seconds of it, and set it to repeat at full volume. Then I went out for lunch with some friends. On my return, I was surprised to learn that they were still there, but shortly after I heard them shout 'Ok, we're going now 'cos that man can't play the piano.' One of the down sides to this was that my other flat mates, who didn't go out for lunch, were driven almost completely to insanity.

Your comments made me think of that occasion when I used music as an offensive weapon.

Neighbours, perhaps!

I am currently going to buy an upright, live in a flat and have a living room of about 25 sq meters (about 270sq. feet). No carpets or lugs, the floor is made out of wood.

I live in the ground floor, so I do not have neighbours underneath. But I have them beside and above.

I would like to buy a yamaha u3, but I am thinking about the u1, since perhaps the u3 might be too loud, even for me, under such conditions, and specially after having read what Richard W has written about headaches.

Since the investment is quite high, I would not mind in going for the u3, but the loudness worries me.

What do you think ? do you know any relationship about room/piano size ?

Thanks

Pedro

Well, my duvet trick has succeeded in making my Steingraeber quieter than a small upright Welmar I also have. It really has been quite effective. I'd still be uncomfortable about playing it in a flat though, but then I would any piano. Bear in mind that if there is a danger of the U3 disturbing your neighbours then a U1 probably would too.

I suppose you have to assess how much it will affect your neighbours by how much your neighbours affect you with their sound. Can you hear music or television or conversations, or shouting? Bear in mind that any piano, when played at fortissimo will be louder than these things normally are.

Personally, I would not be happy with a U1, when I could have had a U3. But, I would not feel happy knowing I was annoying my neighbours, either.


Good luck with your decision.



Richard.

[chickering9]

PMPO or RMS?

RMS.  Three power amps and one control amp.  Two 1000 watt singles for right and left and one 700 for the sub.

Your story about the looping for the fishermen is just what I have in mind (if I can stand it myself) to encourage the current neighbors to move on (for many reasons).  I have a computer with 100s of hours of music programmed attached to the system so I could leave it without paying attention to it and wear earplugs myself.

Actually, I've never patched the digital into that system, but I've been sort of wanting to try it just to see what it sounds like anyway for my own fun.

[omgbruce]

thanks for the advice i put up some bed conforters on the windows temporarily until i get some real curtains. the conforters helped reduce the unwanted reflections i was complaining about .  i also put blankets over the couches that are made of polyester/cotton because the couches didnt absorb enough sound

oh yeah now the piano sounds loud and powerful and not loud and swimming in a pool of sound :O

[tonedeaf]

I'm also having a lot of problems with reverb and reflection in my living room. My living room has a very very tall ceiling and I have very little curtains. So the reverb is so horrible sometimes I can't hear myself play.

I can't spend a lot of money renovating the place cause (1) I'm poor (2) It's a rented apartment. So I dunno what else I can do.  What I can do is to maybe buy some thick thick carpet and put it under the piano. (Kawai K30) and hopefully it dampens the noise. (Cross my finger)

Anybody else have any other suggestions that dun cost so much $$? Prefabably free *wink*

[CJ Quinn]

 I hate to bring out the Doomsday weapon, but civilization is at stake. 

In all fairness, you DO have to warn them that the doomsday machine exists, you are aware of that, no?   

[chickering9]

In all fairness, you DO have to warn them that the doomsday machine exists, you are aware of that, no?   

Yes, and ethical that I am, I told them.  The moving van is warming up as I type this.

[CJ Quinn]

Yes, and ethical that I am, I told them.  The moving van is warming up as I type this.

Glad to hear you did not make the same mistake as Dmitri...

Back on topic:  Have you ever walked around outside near your house as someone else was playing your piano, just to hear how well it projects?