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Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please. (Read 768 times)

Offline faa2010

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Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please.
« on: November 05, 2019, 06:09:54 PM »
Greetings,

I am studying Liszt's Sospiro, but it is very difficult.

I am studying it so I can upgrade my piano level, so in the future I can study a Chopin etude or another piece of Chopin.

What advice could you give me so I can aboard the piece (I have already done some musical analysis, but it is still difficult)?


Offline avguste

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Re: Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please.
«Reply #1 on: November 17, 2019, 11:07:21 AM »
Studying liszt in order to play chopin etude?!?
What is your current level? Can you post a video of your playing?
Avguste Antonov

Pianiste Concertiste

Professeur de Piano | Couleur Musique

Offline flickmusic

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Re: Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please.
«Reply #2 on: November 22, 2019, 12:36:33 PM »
I'm not an experienced player by any stretch (don't play either), but from what I've read around here and other places people usually learn some of Chopin's etudes in order to play Liszt's sospiro, not the other way around! I believe the sospiro requires a real command of technique, something you learn (or perfect) with the etudes.

Offline faa2010

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Re: Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please.
«Reply #3 on: November 27, 2019, 08:32:00 PM »
What?, No way!, So I am the other way around.  I think I have to take it easily or if it is interrupting my progress, then I have to tell my teacher about it.  I think it is because he believes that learning or trying to practice a difficult piece can make the others that really matter less difficult.

About recordings, I haven't posted anything yet, but I hope to do it this weekend, I am playing the Gradus ad Parnassum of Debussy, Sinfonia 4 of Bach (Invention 3 voices), and I played a Cuban Dance of Armengol (Serenata Melancolica) in October.

Meanwhile, what I can only give are the links of my recordings of last year.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=65388.0

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=65286.0

Well, I have recorded right now the Sinfonia 4 of Bach. I haven't practiced it a lot these days because of exams, but I hope to improve it for mid December.

Offline flickmusic

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Re: Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please.
«Reply #4 on: November 29, 2019, 12:56:19 PM »
I tried to learn a few pieces that are "above my pay grade" and see if I could learn the technique by playing them, but what happened is that I was sloppy and just played incorrectly, while acquiring bad habits with these pieces. Whatever you teach your brain, it may not forget, so we need to be careful with the pieces we select because once you learn to play it improperly you may stick with it because of muscle memory and not be able to correct the mistakes later (or have a real hard time to do that).

Offline faa2010

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Re: Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please.
«Reply #5 on: December 28, 2019, 04:22:16 PM »
Thanks for your advice and replies. I talked with my teacher and he told me that it is ok, that I can choose other material, specially because I have delayed and staled a Mozart sonata (the one in a minor).

During the winter vacation, I am planning on working in the next pieces:

- Bach's Sinfonias 6 and 7.
- Mozart's Sonata in a minor.
- Chopin's Nocturne op 48 no 1
- Debussy's Children's Corner and Pagodes
- Armengol's Cuban Dance no 8

Also I have to keep the exercise 8 of Czerny op 299.

Yeah, it is a lot.

Offline dogperson

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Re: Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please.
«Reply #6 on: December 28, 2019, 04:53:32 PM »
Thanks for your advice and replies. I talked with my teacher and he told me that it is ok, that I can choose other material, specially because I have delayed and staled a Mozart sonata (the one in a minor).

During the winter vacation, I am planning on working in the next pieces:

- Bach's Sinfonias 6 and 7.
- Mozart's Sonata in a minor.
- Chopin's Nocturne op 48 no 1
- Debussy's Children's Corner and Pagodes
- Armengol's Cuban Dance no 8

Also I have to keep the exercise 8 of Czerny op 299.

Yeah, it is a lot.


A lot?  Your list seems like an unreasonable goal for just a winter break.  IMHO better to prepare a couple  well

Offline timtim

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Re: Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please.
«Reply #7 on: January 03, 2020, 08:38:20 AM »
Greetings,

I am studying Liszt's Sospiro, but it is very difficult.

I am studying it so I can upgrade my piano level, so in the future I can study a Chopin etude or another piece of Chopin.

What advice could you give me so I can aboard the piece (I have already done some musical analysis, but it is still difficult)?

As others stated, you are doing it wrong. Better to play simple pieces well that virtuoso pieces bad, and youtube is full of such ugly playing.

If you're not ready for Chopin Etudes, than you are not ready for Liszt Etudes (of any kind). They have kinda different problems, but to play both well you need to have really well technique.

It's good to play things one or sometimes two steps above your abilities, but not from few leagues above.

Also, I saw your propositions for winter, and besides that there's a lot of music there, but Sinfonias and Childrens corner are pieces for young studes, while c-minor Chopin nocturne is very serious piece, demanding power, strenght, goods octave and double-fingering technique, hand independence and musicality.

For me it looks like you cannot properly examine the difficulty of the piece, becuase there is whole world of difference between Chopin nocturne and others you wrote. I am not familiar with the Tango and Mozart sonata though, but whatever Mozart wrote, problems there are in musicality, not in fast fingers (well, from some level).

You're repertoire seems to be very widespread in what it demands from the pianist, as there are few levels of variance between the pieces.

Henle has a very good difficulty check, and Chopin nocturne is level 7, and sinfonias are 3/4 (depending which one).

Offline jeffkonkol

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Re: Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please.
«Reply #8 on: January 03, 2020, 04:16:43 PM »
While I actually do believe it can be valuable to work on a piece above your pay grade, as it were, I think you really need to be conscious of what you're trying to accomplish, and understand that you will be revisiting that piece in the future. (likely many times)

Sospiro is probably a bad idea.  If you're really moved by it, choose a section of it.  The first 3-4 pages are quite beautiful, and may be fulfilling for you to work.

With respect to the other pieces, I would recommend choosing a different nocturne.  48-1 is harder than many of the etudes, and arguably, harder than Sospiro.  72-1 or 27-1 might be better places to start.  Both are quite nice, and less likely to result in traumatic brain injury from hitting your head against a wall....over and over and over again. (the doppio section in 48-1 is no joke)


anyways.... just friendly advice. Take it, all or in part, as you choose.  :-)

Offline faa2010

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Re: Liszt Sospiro, tips and advice please.
«Reply #9 on: January 10, 2020, 01:11:02 AM »

For me it looks like you cannot properly examine the difficulty of the piece, becuase there is whole world of difference between Chopin nocturne and others you wrote. I am not familiar with the Tango and Mozart sonata though, but whatever Mozart wrote, problems there are in musicality, not in fast fingers (well, from some level).

You're repertoire seems to be very widespread in what it demands from the pianist, as there are few levels of variance between the pieces.

Henle has a very good difficulty check, and Chopin nocturne is level 7, and sinfonias are 3/4 (depending which one).

That I cannot properly examine the levels?, but it is thanks to Henle That I have some of them.

Last year I played the next setting:

Czerny op 299 no 5 and 6
Bach Sinfonia 2
Haydn G Major Sonata Hob XVI 27
Chopin Nocturne op 9 no 1 b flat minor
Debussy Reverie

And few months I played another Cuban Dance
(I know that there is no level register to foreign pieces, so I can only think it is pointless to ask which level Cuban dances of Armengol are in).

I checked that after Reverie, I could play Gradus ad Parnassum, and also one of my peers played it, with other pieces including a Cuban Dance, a Rach prelude, Bach Sinfonia 1, a Beethoven sonata op 49  no 2, and some exercises of Czerny but from an easier op than the 299. That is why I decided to play Gradus, but to increase the level , I decided to learn the whole Children Corner.

Yes, my level is undefined and I have an imposible goal, however, I am going to go on little by little and see what I can achieve before returning to school. Besides, some of them I see them as good sightreading exercises, and my teacher will only ask in the beginning just at least 2 or 3 pieces, while the rest will be seen after our first recital of the semester.