Brahms, J. Intermezzo, Op. 118 No. 2

[c_minor]

Hi everyone,

Here's a recording of me playing Brahms' Intermezzo, Op.118 No. 2. I want to play this piece well so any constructive criticism would be much appreciated.

[dogperson]

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[associatex]

I worked on this piece over the summer. My recording is over at Piano World (Recital # 55). I am not a teacher and just another amateur player so you can take my thoughts/advice with a grain of salt..So with that said, here are some of my observations:

1. The overall "touch" is a bit heavy. I would work more on pushing down on the keys in a softer manner, there is a very "harsh" tone to the sound of this piece - this can be remedied by thinking of this piece as a soft lullaby, there are sections where your fingers make it seem like a storm is coming, and it should be exact opposite.

2. The Dynamics are a big part of this piece and I am hearing too many "loud" notes. As stated in # 1 above- there needs to be more of a contrast between the softer parts and the crescendos in the piece. I need to hear your fingers "building up" tension in the 2nd and 3rd lines (where you repeat the beginning motif for the 2nd time). Are you using the Soft (left) pedal when you play this piece?

3. The middle section - there is a 2 against 3 polyrhythm and I am not really hearing it from the left hand. This section sounds too robotic when it should sound more melodic. The LH should be providing the beat/pulse. I also don't know if its the recording itself that chopped it off, or if you skipped a section but there is a good chunk of the middle section missing (about 6-9 measures).

4. Tempo: I just don't hear the change in tempo which is required in some sections. there has to be a push/pull relationship between the notes and a lot of slowing down/speeding up for some Rubato to be effective. I am hearing every note played in a monotone manner. I think this goes toward the expressiveness aspect of playing. Some measures need be played softer and slowly, and some measures have each subsequent note increasing slightly in volume.

5. The note accuracy is about 90% there, but the challenge with this piece is the touch/tone and musicality which needs to be fine-tuned and polished. I think this is a good project. If you have a chance to re-record, I would listen to it again.

Is there any chance you can put it on youTube or another site where we can also observe your hands/fingering? I have a feeling from watching earlier videos you posted on this forum that there is a ton of tension in your hands and that its impacting your ability to execute "flowing" like passages musically. This is the most challenging part of this piece...

Good start!

[lostinidlewonder]

The piano is terrible, the sustain is like totally ineffective -_- Record again on something that is worth this class of music

[c_minor]

@associatex,

Thanks for your comments. Really appreciate it.

1. The overall "touch" is a bit heavy. I would work more on pushing down on the keys in a softer manner, there is a very "harsh" tone to the sound of this piece - this can be remedied by thinking of this piece as a soft lullaby, there are sections where your fingers make it seem like a storm is coming, and it should be exact opposite.

I agree that it sounds a bit heavy; however, I'd like to think that I'm already playing the keys softer, as far as feel is concerned... I'll post a new recording on a different instrument in my reply below, but it's still not fully fixed (my chords especially seem to be accented).

2. The Dynamics are a big part of this piece and I am hearing too many "loud" notes. As stated in # 1 above- there needs to be more of a contrast between the softer parts and the crescendos in the piece. I need to hear your fingers "building up" tension in the 2nd and 3rd lines (where you repeat the beginning motif for the 2nd time). Are you using the Soft (left) pedal when you play this piece?

I think I placed my phone too close to the piano while recording, which might have contributed to the "too many loud notes" you noted (on top of my playing not being controlled well yet). No, did not use the soft pedal in my recording.

4. Tempo: I just don't hear the change in tempo which is required in some sections. there has to be a push/pull relationship between the notes and a lot of slowing down/speeding up for some Rubato to be effective. I am hearing every note played in a monotone manner. I think this goes toward the expressiveness aspect of playing. Some measures need be played softer and slowly, and some measures have each subsequent note increasing slightly in volume.

I did try to add rubato to my playing, but I'm afraid of it being too excessive where it might ruin the flow of the piece. I'll work on it.


The recording I'll post below just has a different piano and a farther recording position, so don't expect any improvement yet.

[c_minor]

The piano is terrible, the sustain is like totally ineffective -_- Record again on something that is worth this class of music

Did you mean my pedaling was bad, or was it the actual piano pedal that was bad (or both  ) Anyway, here's a recording on a different instrument. Feedback appreciated. 

[quantum]

Good start.  I like what you did with the repeats. 

One thing you can work on next is phrase shaping.  Make note of the places where you need to insert breaths, and those where you need to define direction of the phrase.  There are many places where you have agogic emphasis on chords with large spans, if you want to place agogic emphasis it has to work with the structure of the music.  Work on making those large spanned chords more integrated with the flow of the phrase. 

[associatex]

Hi I listened to the 2nd version of your recording- there are some aspects that are much better, I can hear better articulation and the middle section is clearer.

I agree w/ the above poster that your 2 biggest challenges still remain:

1. overall touch has to be softer, especially in the LH.
2. there is no shaping to the musical phrases in both recordings. You need to find the end note and the starter note where you shape the phrase. I dont know how to explain it here on a message board but please listen to some recordings on YouTube from professional pianists and from teachers (ie Josh Wright, Paul Barton, etc). Radu Lupu is my "go to" CD for all Brahms Intermezzo pieces because his interpretations always move me, every.single.time.

You need to FEEL something as you play this piece. It is a sad piece but there are moments of absolute desire and passion, and you need to feel that so that it can trickle down to your fingers. All I hear is someone playing the notes as if this were a computer program spitting out random notes w/ a few pp and ff markings sprinkled throughout . There needs to be a natural cadence to the phrasins.

As to the middle section, the notes are there and I really liked the 2nd repeat how you brought out the LH melody in the LH upper notes. That is good. The chordal section that follows was also done well.

Overall its just the shaping that really needs to be worked on, and of course - working on playing some notes softer than others to build up that tension. I recommend you also go on YouTube and search for Master Classes that cover this piece. They are helpful in conveying which lines you can isolate so that you can feel a  physical surge that will transmit in your playing. Like I said earlier, the relationship between the notes are just as important as the notes themselves. The soft pull and push of the notes while still remaining in tempo is the challenge for you in this piece.


 

[c_minor]

Hi again,

I re-recorded this piece today, and hope you can give feedback. I honestly don't know if the phrasing is acceptable now...

[brogers70]

I'm guessing you'd get the piano tuned if it weren't for Covid-19 and social distancing.

A few things.

While it is certainly OK to vary the tempo a little bit, you have too many sudden shifts in tempo that don't really make sense to me. You tend to speed up when the harmony gets more intense, when in fact, if anything, you could dwell on it a little bit, rather than hurrying through it.

You asked about the phrasing. One thing I think would help would be for you to let the ends of phrases breathe a little; don't rush into the next phrase. A good example is in measure 16 (counting from the first full measure). On the second beat you have a phrase ending on an E major cadence. Then the third beat begins a new phrase on a C major chord in first inversion - it's interesting. So let it breathe. Pause briefly after the second beat, really briefly, before going on. And when you go on, don't speed up like a maniac. Let the listener enjoy the shock of the new harmony.

In general you could think more about the lines, all the lines, melody, bass and middle voices as lines. Listen to a good recording following the score, and focus not on the obvious part, but on the internal voices or the bass. Try singing those lines expressively, and then try to play them as you just sang them. It always helps to think of Brahms piano music as though you were a string orchestra.

In the chorale section in the middle of the F# minor bit, you are playing the chorale too vertically, as a series of chords, rather than as four vocal lines. If you listen carefully you can hear that there is actually a brief canon between the soprano and first tenor lines; unless you think of this section horizontally, as vocal lines, the listener will never here that canon.

You are making something of the interesting internal lines in the repeats of the f#minor section. That's good. Keep doing it.

Another line worth listening for - in measure 35, right after that big left hand stretch for the 1st inversion A major chord, watch the bass line; you basically have D, D#, E, and that's an important motion to the dominant just before the end of the section. You should help the listener hear that progression in the bass (without being heavy handed or tasteless, obviously).

You've obviously got the notes under your fingers. So now I would take the whole thing apart. Play individual lines. Listen for subtle, beautiful things that are not in center stage, and try to bring out the beauty in them.