Ear Training

[samwitdangol]

Hello,

I have been trying to improve my ear, specifically being able to recognize intervals but I can only recognize d2, P1, P5, P8. How does one improve their ability to be able to recognize intervals more successfully and easily? I want to be able to know what a piece sounds like without playing it and be able to compose without having an instrument at hand.
I don't want to use the song method because it can be impractical.

Thank you!

[j_tour]

I applaud you on your discipline.

There are various "methods" out there, and I'm sure spamming is encouraged, judging by the amount of garbage "links" one gets.

There are a few textbooks out there, but to be honest, I think you just have to learn moveable-do solfeggio.

Just repeat it every day, all intervals, all keys. 

Eventually it will stick.

Or, as many people, including me, have said;  anytime you hear a tune on the TV or or the movies or whatever.  Just pick up whatever instrument is handy or go to the keyboard and play along.

Ear-training is something everybody has to do, eventually, so, you just have to do it.

[quantum]

I think you just have to learn moveable-do solfeggio.

This is what was done in one of my university foundation courses.  Every class for a full year course.  It works.  We sung all sorts of music using movable-do solfeggio: scales, modes, simple melodies.  This progressed to more complex melodies with mixed modes, melodies with modulations, duets with other classmates, and improvised melodies.  The important part is you have to sing the solfeggio. 

[j_tour]

The important part is you have to sing the solfeggio.

Yeah.  That was the most difficult but most important part of learning to sight-sing:  there's no timbre, or Britney-Spears-type inflection to fall back on.

Either you hit the note, or you don't.

That's IMHO the most difficult part of learning to solfeggio:  and, in my experience, that's how I can tell how people in various groups know it or not, just listening to how they sing a part of some tune you're supposed to play in three or five minutes (often much less!) on the spot.  On the job or just jamming, no, people aren't doing do-re-mi, but you can tell who has good intonation just by the way they hum a few bars.

And it's still difficult for me:  I have a fine speaking voice, but a terrible singing voice.  I really have to concentrate to do the exact pitches, spot-on. 

ETA This is one case where my usual advice, viz, "transcribe!" both does and doesn't work.  Precisely in that by not singing the notes in a sort-of-sine-wave tone, and writing it down...mmmm...doesn't necessarily help.   Transcribing music is an extraordinarily helpful ability and skill,, but I don't think it helps ear-training, except for maybe an absolute beginner. 

You do indeed have to hear, at a minimum, the  pitches.  It doesn't matter if A=436 or A=445, you still have to do it.

[samwitdangol]

Thank you guys for the help!

It never occurred to me that I should learn solfeggio. I will work on that now.

[j_tour]

Thank you guys for the help!

It never occurred to me that I should learn solfeggio. I will work on that now.

If that's not sarcasm, it sure could pass for one as a simulacrum.

Well, anyway, I just said my own experience, but quantum really hit the key point:  yeah, sure, everybody knows do-re-mi, whatever, but if you don't sing it, out loud, it's not much good.

[klavieronin]

At my university we used a fixed solfeggio system which has it's disadvantages but may be better for reading more complicated and atonal music, since you don't have you worry and finding the tonal center each time the music modulates to a new key.

The text books we used were Modus Vetus (for tonal music) and Modus Novus ( for advanced and atonal music). They are quite pricey but tones of exercises and I think quite good.

[quantum]

Where movable-do gets cumbersome is with frequent modulations, highly chromatic music, atonality, or basically situations where the tonal centre is loosely defined or not stable.  However, for those beginning to learn sight singing it reinforces the structure of the mode - one gets to hear and feel the relationship of all the pitches in relation to Do.  This is what builds strength of the inner ear to hear relative pitches without needing reference from an instrument. 

Movable-do also has the built in capability of associating certain vowel sounds as being flat, natural, or sharp pitches in relation to neighbouring notes. 

Solfeggio without singing becomes just another naming convention.  One has to sing solfeggio in order that the ear benefits from it.

[samwitdangol]

I want to know what you guys think about the app "functional ear trainer." I got it recently and I think my interval recognition has improved.

[samwitdangol]

One has to sing solfeggio in order that the ear benefits from it.

I rarely ever hit the right pitch.

I have the range of about a tritone.

I can barely hold a tone for more than a short moment.


If you don't mind, can you explain how solfége helps with ear training? How do you use it?

[quantum]

When you sing, you are exercising an internal understanding of how pitches relate, you are also putting into place a physical, self-generated response to sounding the pitches.  By singing, you are not merely recognizing the intervals played by other instruments, you are producing them with only your internal knowledge to rely on as reference. 

Singing helps with ear training, in that it makes you an active participant in producing the pitches.  You are not passively recognizing pitches from other instruments, rather you are using your ability to generate the pitches yourself.  Singing helps to develop your inner ear, so that with practice, you will be able to read a score and hear all the pitches in your head without sounding a note or relying on a piano to hear what is there. 

Solfeggio gives you the reference point to which you can start using your voice to explore music and pitch relationships.  Just like you use scales to understand the geography of a keyboard, you use solfeggio to understand the geography of your voice and inner ear.  The voice is unique in that we don't have a physical reference to touch, examine, or open the lid and see how it works. 

***

Somewhat related to your other thread. 

To give you an idea for what is commonly required as basic training for all university music students, regardless of instrument, in a many schools.  All students need to be able to demonstrate vocal proficiency and keyboard proficiency.  That is, you must be able to sing melodies, sight-sing simple melodies from a score without previously hearing the excerpt, sing in an ensemble setting (such as duets or your own part in SATB music).  You also must be able to play simple pieces at the piano as well as some scales and chords.  All students need to be able to do this stuff, regardless of what their concentration in music is. 

The keyboard stuff will be easy for you.  However, also think of the people for whom the primary instrument is neither voice or piano, they also need to have these skills.

***

Solfeggio will help you with your vocal range.   If you need more practice singing join a choir (probably not possible at the moment given the current situation).  You could also sing along to recordings.  Start with familiar tunes like folk music, hymns, etc. Then move on to singing your own part in simple SATB music.  There are SATB part videos on Youtube for choral music, that isolate a voice part to aid in learning.  Have fun with it and don't be scared to use your voice.

[brogers70]

I completely agree with quantum. I'd add, too, that you can almost certainly learn to sing. If you can hear the difference between a unison that is in tune and one that is not, then you can learn to match your voice to a given pitch. If you experiment a little you can doubtless learn to sing a simple tune in tune. Vocal range is not something that is a fixed, given attribute. You can learn to stretch your range, at least to the point that you can sing in a choir. Singing helps a great deal in playing the piano - it's easy to sing a line with expression, much easier than it is to make a beautiful line on a percussion instrument like the piano - so you can help yourself produce beautiful lines by singing them first and trying to imitate the vocal inflections on the piano.

I speak from experience, because when I was a kid my parents told me I couldn't carry a tune. It was years before I even tried to sing in a choir, but I eventually found that with training, I actually had a decent voice and a pretty good tenor range. I just regret lots of years of potential singing wasted because I thought I couldn't carry a tune or reach any note above middle C.

[j_tour]

Not to derail the very fine observations on the value of singing, no matter the quality of one's voice, but I did look through the Edlund Modus Vetus book.

Not only does it seem exceptional among other textbooks I've seen, and could certainly be sung with either movable or fixed-do, but there's a very brief appendix, of sorts, which details some common chord progressions in an extremely concise manner, should one need to review any of that.

I don't know if it's worth 50 USD, but it would be a work I'd recommend, and I may very well use it to cover some weak spots.

All the intervals are covered, of course, in addition to more complicated works.

So, thanks for that recommendation.

/*ETA I should add that I'm right now listening to a neighbor "singing" do-re-mi-fa-sol and back down, ascending chromatically.

It would be very nice if more people worked on their intonation.

It is unbelievably awful.

Oh no.  Hell no.  Now she's actually either doing more exercises from Hell's Handbook, or trying to sing tunes.

It is the worst thing I have ever heard.  Well, it did coincide with some dog barking from across the street, so that's equally annoying, but I can't use my marine air horn on the dog, because my neighbor might infer I was complaining about her, and I don't want to have to buy more black duck tape to cover up smashes on my car.

About the vibrato:  listen if you want to Miles Davis's album Nefertiti:  that's what I want to hear out of every musician I work with.  Seamless control of the intervals, with no bullshit.  Wayne's got it, Miles has got it, Herbie does it, Ron has perfect intonation, and even Tony has his drums tuned just right. 

Now listen again.  each of those players (well, mutatis mutandis) can and does choose where to add inflections like vibrato or trem. 

That's a big *** difference between listening to some cow screech out her window with all the vibrato in the world but she can't do the pitch. 

I'm just saying, I know who I'd want playing with me.

Lesson:  learn to sight sing, and lose the vibrato when you sing, because that sucks.*/