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I am so sorry for posting this. It's probably mean, but still important. (Read 1406 times)

Offline torandrekongelf

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I feel like I am mean person for exposing him as "Bad". He probably is very good, and this is most likely a one time incident. And I am probably mean for posting this and for that I am sorry. I do feel it's important. 

I am part of a little piano community on facebook where pianist from amateurs like myself and professionals post their live and homemade performances.  Sometimes I see very good things. But I came over a clip someone posted there of a live performance of a professional and I felt I had to write something about it.  First, I tolerate a lot of mistakes in performances. I don't mind them that much. But there is a limit to everything.

Watch the performance and if you go to the last movement of Moonlight Sonata, its so much mistakes, I really don't understand why he decided to perform this piece in such a state.  There are even moments where he just pushes keys randomly.

We are not talking about simple mistakes here and there.  I took it upon myself to reply that I was sorry to be harsh, but he shouldn't have performed this piece at this current state. If he was a beginner and recorded it at home I wouldn't have been so harsh about it.  It resultated in a storm of comments to my reply. "How dare you!" "This is exellent playing! Be more grateful"  But frankly, this is supposed to be a live performance, perhaps markeded as a professional performance.

There is an audiance. And they shout "Bravo!!" at the end etc.  So the question is really. How can people experience music so differently? I think this is not good at all. Yet there are obviously people that think this is excellent. Are we human beings so different that either our standards are so different, or the way we hear music is so different? 

Again, I never really mentor people this way. Nor do I ever say something is bad. Normally I just move on. I am sorry if I offend anyone with my opinion or if this is tasteless by me to post this.  I do wish him all the best and I hope his next recital is a lot better.

Offline samwitdangol

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The audience did not sound enthusiastic at the end; they probably did not enjoy it either.
Currently working on:

Beethoven Sonata 22 and 27
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Offline dogperson

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I didn’t even listen to the performance as it was enough to read your review.  I don’t understand your point in posting this here publicly and why  you think posting it is important. He may be a great pianist who had a bad day, and that does happen, or he may not have been a good pianist. Who cares? I would encourage you not to post things like this unless you’re willing for somebody else to post the same type of sub-par performance rant about you because you, too, will have ‘not good’ performances.  You even post his name!

Sorry, your post is non-constructive and seems quite petty.
This reminds me of an old joke:  How many pianists does it take to play a concert? 100. One to play and the other 99 to say they could’ve done it better

Offline torandrekongelf

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Did you read anything that I wrote below the video?

Offline dogperson

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Did you read anything that I wrote below the video?


I read every word you wrote before I replied.

Offline chechig

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Please, answer the next question: Would you like that anyone could do such a thing with one of your videos?

Offline torandrekongelf

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It happens allmost all the time.

Offline torandrekongelf

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Ok because I wrote what I wrote to avoid that specific answer you came with.

He allready made it public. So its allready out there.

When you put out content you must also expect critisism. Which I have to deal with all the time on my videos.

I read every word you wrote before I replied.

Offline lostinidlewonder

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So he played not so well and people showed appreciation, you don’t like it so felt compelled to let us know. Do you know the performer or their background? I attended one piano solo where the pianist made embarrassing loud noises while playing, years before they had a breakdown and it effected them. I didn’t feel the need to critique that because I knew the background and in fact I could see past the disruption and enjoy the performance. The personal story always reveals more. In any case who cares if someone plays badly, unless we have something constructive to add to it all I guess there is no real need to throw your hands up.
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Offline torandrekongelf

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So he played not so well and people showed appreciation, you don’t like it so felt compelled to let us know. Do you know the performer or their background? I attdebed one piano solo where the pianist made embarrassing loud noises while playing they had a breakdown and it effected them. I didn’t feel the need to critique that because I knew the background. The personal story always reveals more. In any case who cares if someone plays badly, unless web have something constructive to add to it all I guess there is no real need to throw your hands up.

I really wish people would start reading my entire post instead of just the title.

I make your same point in my post.

And my reasoning for brining it up is that I meet people who think this is excellent playing. My question is how people can hear a performance that differently.

Offline ranjit

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If you show them your favourite recording of the piece, do they find it excellent as well? In that case, it might just be an issue of resolution. That is, they can't differentiate between "good" playing and"great" playing.

Once I showed two recordings of the sixth Hungarian Rhapsody to some of my friends (Cziffra and Rosseau). One of them sometimes listened to classical music, but couldn't tell the difference. The other never listened to classical music, but could immediately compare the versions, and said that there was clearly a huge difference. He also listened to a few other versions (Lang Lang etc.) and largely came to the same conclusions I had.

Offline klavieronin

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When I watched the video these were my first thoughts;

Who is the pianist?
What is the situation and who is the audience?
What was the pianist's goal in posting it on the internet?
What are the goals of the pianist in general?

I personally wouldn't be offering any criticism until I had answers to those questions because that will largely determine what kind of criticism is appropriate. IMHO.

Offline perfect_pitch

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My question is how people can hear a performance that differently.

Ignorance... and lack of knowledge. And I don't mean that in an insulting way.

I used to play Beethoven like he did - in performances. I was taught by morons who let me get away with sins on the piano that no credible teacher would let you get away with. I didn't know any better, and my parents didn't do music so they didn't know any better.

Maybe the performance was a one off, however the mistakes don't seem to be a one time problem. He really seems to have trouble with semiquavers and the dexterity of his hand - so unless he had a physical accident that has caused some seizing of the muscles, this seems like he took on a piece that was too hard for him to play. The way he also plays the piano seems inefficient in the way he moves his hands when he changes octaves.

Also, the way he plays the slow movement of the Beethoven seems clunky and isn't soft enough as if he has a hard time voicing the upper voice compared to the triplet accompaniment. Someone with more control over the piano wouldn't have this problem.

Unfortunately my opinion (based on one of his other videos) is that he is playing pieces far beyond his capabilities, as he has another video of the Beethoven Moonlight, which is unfortunately full of mistakes; and this is 5 months prior to the one the OP posted.

Even someone who had good technique and barely knew the pieces could at least play the arpeggios well and much more nimble finger movements. His fingers are too clunky when playing, and he needs to work at refining his technique before he attempts the pieces.

And again, this is coming from someone who used to play like that... and believe me - it's a HARD lesson to be taught; but I'm glad that someone had the guts to tell me so I could begin the process of improving... and because of her I have.

Offline lostinidlewonder

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I really wish people would start reading my entire post instead of just the title.
What part of my response ignored what you posted in your opening post? You wonder why
people enjoyed the music yet you thought it was bad.

And my reasoning for brining it up is that I meet people who think this is excellent playing. My question is how people can hear a performance that differently.
You didn't have to use this video you posted then to ask a simple question like this. I have already responded that you might not like it but other people did, whether you or me or anyone else thinks that is right or wrong doesn't ultimately matter. Perhaps you can ask people what they enjoyed from the performance. Like I said in my initial response there may be a back story behind why someone is playing, I listened to someone who has a mental breakdown and then was treated barbarically in psycharatric wards, it effected their performance, they made all sorts of strange noises which often was louder than the music itself.

We can also have "bad days" as performers, everyone has had one who does a lot of live performances. Look at one famous example of Horowitz when he was inebriated and played in Japan 1983, 3,500 of the Japanese audience members gave him a 14 minute ovation nonetheless.

Often there are people in audiences who never choose to listen to piano solo music and are first time listeners to pieces presented. There should then be no surprise to you why they can fully enjoy substandard performances while you might cringe. I can attend student concerts and enjoy the occasion perfectly fine, there is more to enjoy than just top class playing and perfect note accuracy, do we really want to be dissapointed every time we hear something that falls far from the mark? I guess if you pay a lot of money for a concert then you have the right to, many concert these days are free so we can't really complain.
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Offline cranston53

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It was just a poor performance. No more, no less.

I don't think you should have posted it. It feels like you're shaming him.

As for the comments, I think people likely knew it was a poor performance, they were simply defending him. Which I would do as well.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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The OP made this post just to boost his ego thats all
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline ranjit

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I agree with the other posters here. The audience is probably trying to encourage the person, and there's only a smattering of applause at the end, which makes it seem like a small concert. The audience may well be friends, family, or classmates of some sort. Just because some random person on youtube called him a "professional pianist" doesn't mean he markets himself that way. Honestly, it just looks like a guy who has been playing for a short time, for whom learning and playing the piece, no matter how poorly, would be an achievement. The people in the facebook piano group might be comparing his level of playing against their own (at least he can manage the Moonlight sonata). And the OP sounds like an elitist who just has to bash a subpar performance.

Offline dorihunt

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I do not sense malice intent for this posting.  I listened to the performance, and to the trained ear, it is not the level of playing I would anticipate from a professional pianist.  The performer’s interpretations of the pieces are unlike any I have heard.  The accented notes and balance of the two hands are off.  I find it educational to listen to performances that are not perfect.  For people in the audience unfamiliar with these pieces, they probably sound stellar.  The pianist can certainly play fast and that alone can be impressive even if the sound is not “beautiful.”  We all experience music differently.  The performer was able to communicate through his music, despite there being numerous mistakes.  Neither the poster nor the performer should be “sorry” for anything.

Offline siiben

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Re: I am so sorry for posting this. It's probably mean, but still important.
«Reply #18 on: September 15, 2020, 08:09:55 AM »

 
He allready made it public. So its allready out there.


This is such a dumb way for people to justify their unnecessary feedback.

Yes, you should expect to receive it if you publish anything because there are all kinds people out there. But NO, you do not have to be one of those people commenting rubbish. There's absolutely no moral obligation to give needless/worthless criticism.

Offline timothy42b

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Re: I am so sorry for posting this. It's probably mean, but still important.
«Reply #19 on: September 15, 2020, 12:43:26 PM »
All the shaming aside, there are a couple things to learn here. 

He's sitting too high, I think.  I like adjustable seats but there's a risk of going too far.  But some may disagree, there is a range of what works.

But on this one I feel certain I'm right.  The head should align with the spine, not stick out at a right angle.  He's a young guy and getting away with it for now but that posture is going to give him endless problems down the line. 

Last thing:  Dude, that's a 32 minute video.  You listened to 32 minutes of something you considered bad?  What's up with that?  Do you listen to telemarketers all the way through?  When I hear "we've been trying to reach you concerning your vehicle warranty,"  well that never happens because at "we've been" I go click. 
Tim