~theory and different clefs~

[lea]

i struggle in theory alot with the alto and tenor clefs as i dont play instruments that read this.

i am totally desperate to find a way of picking it up easily......i have tried the usual stuff like subsituting each letter name on the letter clef for a word to make up a sentence but i feel that it just doesn't work for me

any suggestions for picking up my speed  for reading alto and tenor clefs and doing it with ease?

[amee]

hey lea!!!

Yay you signed up!  I think a good way to pick up your speed is to do lots of reading in the alto/tenor clefs.  Actually practice your music with the score in those clefs, then you will become very fluent.

[lea]

hey amee!! what a great idea

but theres only one problem......i dont hav any alto/teno music .........

thanx 4 da great idea!!!!

(i dont want to spend alot of money on a trumpet book so i can read the clef!!!!!!!!!!)

thanx nyway!!!

lea

[natasha]

get music from ur theory tchr... or ask him/her!!
natasha

[amee]

Just for fun you might try taking a piece of music and putting it into the alto or tenor clefs yourself, then playing it back while reading it in the unfamiliar clefs.  That way you will have practice both writing music in the alto/tenor clefs, and reading notes in them.

[trunks]

Just wondering the reason behind the need of having the alto and tenor clefs when the treble and bass clefs are already so popular.  Aren't we creating confusion here? Any thoughts?

[bernhard]

Just wondering the reason behind the need of having the alto and tenor clefs when the treble and bass clefs are already so popular.  Aren't we creating confusion here? Any thoughts?

The reason is very simple. In the past ledger lines were pretty rare. Not only the music did not have the range it has nowadays, as notes lying outside the staff were dealt with by moving the whole staff up or down. Hence the several different clefs. It is simply an alternative way to cope with too high or too low notes, without resorting to ledger lines.

Nowadays we only use the G clef (treble clef) positioned on the second line – indicating that notes placed on the second line are G, and the F clef is positioned to make the forth line an F.  However, in the past, there was also a G clef that was positioned in the first line – and therefore the first line became a G (instead of E), and there was an F clef positioned in the third line – making the third line an F (instead of the usual D).

You may think that all these different clefs create confusion. That is because you are used to ledger lines. An earlier composer would think exactly the opposite: being thoroughly trained on different clefs, he would be completely confused and aghast at the idea of ledger lines.

The C clef is the most moveable of them, assuming positions in the third (alto clef), and fourth (tenor clef) lines (although in the past it could have been positioned in the first and second line as well). The line where the C clef is positioned is always middle C.

If the original poster is still around, it is simplicity itself to read in any clef. All that is required is that one thinks in terms of a big staff of 11 lines, where the top five lines is the usual treble staff, the bottom five lines make up the bass staff, and an imaginary line is drawn between them. This line only appears (as a ledger line) when middle C is located on it, both on the G clef and on the F clef. Of course, once you use one of the C clefs, this imaginary line become real: it is the line the C clef is on. To read in any clef you simply slide mentally this big 11 line staff up or down as necessary. I have detailed this in this thread, Have a look if you are interested.

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1081187434


Best wishes,
Bernhard

[ayahav]

another beautiful explanation Bernhard...

just remember - leger lines. so named, because they used to be drawn faintly (or lightly). Leger is French for light, like the Italian leggiero.

I have gotten the jist of reading the clefs. In the alto clef every note is one higher than what you see, so every mi is a fa, for example. In the tenor clef every note is one lower, so every re is a do. And then of course accidentals apply...

The next step for me is trying to read a score with four staves, two in the treble clef, one in the alto clef, and another in the bass clef. I find it very difficult to orientate myself to all 3 clefs simultaneously... Much harder than just two...

[squinchy]

Easy Go learn the viola.

But if that's not possible, I would do what ayahav said-In alto clef, pretend you're reading treble, then put it a letter up. Or, you can pretend that you're reading bass clef, then pull it a letter down.

[bernhard]

another beautiful explanation Bernhard...

Thanks!  

just remember - leger lines. so named, because they used to be drawn faintly (or lightly). Leger is French for light, like the Italian leggiero.

Thank you for the correction. It is true what you said about "leger" lines, but actually, you can use ledger as well. According to my Oxford dictionary:

ledger line - n. Music variant spelling of Leger line

Besides the spelling ledger is used in most theory books, including the AB theory book by Eric Taylor (the official ABRSM theory book).

I have gotten the jist of reading the clefs.

Just remember gist, not jist, because:

origins: old French - third person singularpresent tense of the verb gesir "to lie", in Anglo French legal phrase: "cest action gist" : This action lies, denoting that there are sufficient grounds to proceed.  

The next step for me is trying to read a score with four staves, two in the treble clef, one in the alto clef, and another in the bass clef. I find it very difficult to orientate myself to all 3 clefs simultaneously... Much harder than just two...

Good luck!

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ayahav]

my dictionary has jist spelt both ways....

[bernhard]

my dictionary has jist spelt both ways....

That is interesting. My dictionary (Oxford) does not list the word jist.

The Merrian-Webster online dictionary also does not recognise it.

The same with the Cambridge dictionary on line.

Anyway, I am not fussy about spelling anyway.

Where is Ed?

Best wishes,
Bernhard.