100 Most Difficult Piano Concertos

[achoo42]

[ahinton]

I think that members would find a lis(z)t of these 100 concerto extracts identifying both works and performers...

Best,

Alistair

[achoo42]

Could you elaborate on what you were trying to say?

[ahinton]

Could you elaborate on what you were trying to say?

I wasn't "trying" to say anything; what I did say was that some here might appreciate details of each of the pieces performed and by whom.

Best,

Alistair

[achoo42]

The video itself lists each performer, work, and composer, and you can even find the dates of all the works in the comments below.

[thalbergmad]

I don't really see the point of the exercise and you don't include the hardest of the romantic concerti, being the Schytte and the Zichy left hand which is probably impossible.
Strangely you include the Grieg which is a piece of piss.

[fftransform]

Yeah, some of these like the Grieg, Arensky - or especially the Ustvolskaya, which is borderline elementary - feel like "I couldn't think of 100 concerti."

And then to include some random-ass 21st Century Chinese pentaphonic peoplemusik, but omitting something like:

Or a[n eventually] gorgeous piece like:

[thalbergmad]

I am normally terrified when you post you tube links, but that 2nd one was interesting.

Thal

[fftransform]

Yeah, there are a lot of composers rn writing in this sort of modal, harmonically-intelligible but still entirely contemporary style.  You might be able to get into them - though as usual they're generally not the best piano writers.

I looked at that Shytte piece as well, randomly; I dunno, it doesn't seem so impossible.  Are you talking about the doublenote stuff in the 3rd movement?  I'd be way more scared to try the Tchaik octaves in front of an audience haha

[thalbergmad]

The Schytte is very muscular. It sort of grinds you down.

Oleg Marshev thought it the most difficult and he has performed all the Medtner and Rachmaninoff.

It's the Zichy left hand that's borderline impossible.

[ahinton]

The video itself lists each performer, work, and composer, and you can even find the dates of all the works in the comments below.

OK - didn't see that; sorry!

Best,

Alistair

[fftransform]

Oleg Marshev thought it the most difficult and he has performed all the Medtner and Rachmaninoff.

It's the Zichy left hand that's borderline impossible.

Well he'd know better than me, but I still really struggle to see it.  Bartok 2 is the most grinding one I can think of.  My wrists would explode from the 3rd movement; I have big hands but little, bony bird-wrists, I'm not built for that chunky stuff.  Schumann can eat a dick.

[thalbergmad]

You probably dont want to know how i increased my wrist development 

Cant stop listening to that Dusapin. I should hate it, but i dont.

Thal

[achoo42]

Yeah, some of these like the Grieg, Arensky - or especially the Ustvolskaya, which is borderline elementary - feel like "I couldn't think of 100 concerti."

I rather hope you read the description:

Like my previous ranking video, this is less of a truly accurate list of difficulty but rather a compilation of interesting bits and pieces from great concertos throughout history. Because there’s a lot of endless note spinning in these concertos (big surprise), I tried to mix in as many lyrical sections as I could so that the entire video wouldn’t just be one big cadenza.

As far as a general idea of difficulty: The concerti ranked 100-75 are really not tremendously difficult and can be learned by early advanced students. 79-55 contain the bulk of the standard repertory as well as many other lesser known works. 54-30 contain the harder concerti that are played by virtuosos, 29-11 comprise the most difficult works in the standard repertoire, and then the works in the top 10 are truly monstrous works that require a lifetime dedication to master. Although I have to point out that the Ginastera Concerto No.1 is definitely not the most difficult concerto out there (that title goes to either a Xenakis or Sorabji work), and perhaps not even more difficult than some of the others in the top 10. I just wanted to end the video on that amazing ending.

Honorable mentions: These include pieces that would be on the list if I could find a proper recording or sheet music—for some I have neither. Or they might be pieces that didn’t make it on the list for sake of variety. If you want a solid answer to which are truly the most difficult piano concerti, it’ll likely be the top five on this honorable mentions list.
Xenakis Synaphai
Sorabji Symphonic Variations for Piano and Orchestra
Xenakis Palimpsest
Sorabji Concerti
Denisov Concerto
Carter Concerto
Rzewski Concerto
Babbitt Concerto
A. Feinberg Concerto
Penderecki Concerto
Tveitt Concertos
Furtwangler Concerto
Ornstein Concerto
Liebermann Concerti
Yoshimatsu Piano Concerto
Rozycki Concerti
Bronsart Concerto
Dvořák Concerto
Perle Concertos
Balakirev Concerti
Schytte Concerto
Shchedrin Concerti
Ries Concerti
Kalkbrenner Concerti
Emerson Concerto
Moscheles Concerti
Rontgen Concerto

So no. On the contrary to "I couldn't think of 100 concerti", I had far more concerti than I could fit and if you don't like my specific choices, then that's okay. Sorry that this video wasn't tailored to pretentious know-it-alls who turn up their noses at popular repertoire and MUST have such and such on a compilation in order to be able to sleep at night. 

[fftransform]

So no. On the contrary to "I couldn't think of 100 concerti", I had far more concerti than I could fit and if you don't like my specific choices, then that's okay. Sorry that this video wasn't tailored to pretentious know-it-alls who turn up their noses at popular repertoire and MUST have such and such on a compilation in order to be able to sleep at night.

You couldn't find 100 difficult concerti, not unrelated to the fact that you don't know hardly anything about 20th/21st century music.  But you decided to make a youtube video that combines - via excruciating labor, making the project all the more cringeworthy - the most infantile aspects of pianostreet thought and da SDC thought, rolled into one, then came on here to shill it like a teenage girl on Instagram.  This whole endeavor reeks on the one hand of the most facile sort of interest of the most tedious sort of PS newbie, while on the other glorifying (more precisely, ostensibly glorifying) the cataloguing of technical feats with a sort of Asperger flair more SDC-appropriate.  It's the effort of an immature listener, inherently and obviously.

But the bottom line: It's a bit queer that you think a video titled "100 most difficult piano concerti" should be above the reproach of critiques pointing out that it's littered with easy pieces, because you were up front in how miserably you failed the project.  That you preemptively let us know that you failed does not turn it into a success.

I don't need know-it-alls, just know-enoughs, and you ain't it.

[achoo42]

You couldn't find 100 difficult concerti, not unrelated to the fact that you don't know hardly anything about 20th/21st century music.

Irrespective of my knowledge or lack thereof on 20th/21st century music, I have already mentioned many times that many works could not make it to the list due to the lack of available sheet music and recordings. My sources of sheet music were IMSLP and other videos on Youtube—there are many modern scores which cannot be found on either one.

But you decided to make a youtube video that combines - via excruciating labor, making the project all the more cringeworthy - the most infantile aspects of pianostreet thought and da SDC thought, rolled into one, then came on here to shill it like a teenage girl on Instagram. This whole endeavor reeks on the one hand of the most facile sort of interest of the most tedious sort of PS newbie, while on the other glorifying (more precisely, ostensibly glorifying) the cataloguing of technical feats with a sort of Asperger flair more SDC-appropriate.  It's the effort of an immature listener, inherently and obviously.

                   
We get it, it's beneath you. Anything at all pandering to a general audience is beneath you. You're a bigger music snob than me; thanks for letting us know.

It seems that you possess the distinctly unlikeable quality of being constantly impulsed to let others know that you are more educated and cultured than anybody else. You're the kind of person who will bring up string theory at a party just to let people have a small glimpse of your intellect.

I wonder, do you actually enjoy playing the piano? Or do you just whimper inside knowing that you'll never be able to perform Rădulescu or David Rakowski?

But the bottom line: It's a bit queer that you think a video titled "100 most difficult piano concerti" should be above the reproach of critiques pointing out that it's littered with easy pieces, because you were up front in how miserably you failed the project.  That you preemptively let us know that you failed does not turn it into a success.

This is an acceptable criticism. Not only did I feel that a variety of accessible works would be more enjoyable to a larger demographic, I felt that "100 Hardest" was much more eye-catching than "100 random concertos ranked highly approximately". Sorry. I just had to have my cake and eat it too, knowing that the only people who object will be the occasional pseudo-intellectual in a piano forum ghost town.

[fftransform]

It's a piano forum ghost town that you came to looking for validation, so . . . weird slight.  As opposed to the piano forum ghost town you usually hang out on, da SDC: No less dead, but way more racists and "is he a tranny" threads!  I guess we all seek validation from whoever will give it.

Anyway, who is David Rakowski?  Pretends to know what's up in the 21st Century piano scene, check.  Radulescu's piano music isn't that great, and is technically elementary.  Anyone could play it.  Feigns familiarity with obscure composers, check.  Thus: 

It seems that you possess the distinctly unlikeable quality of being constantly impulsed to let others know that you are more educated and cultured than anybody else.

It seems that you're the one with this quality - just without the actual knowledge   You posted your 100 special, most favorite-est concerti on youtube for the whole world, I posted two concerti on a 'ghost town' piano forum.  Projection, much?

[achoo42]

It's a piano forum ghost town that you came to looking for validation, so . . . weird slight. 

Eh. I'm not looking for validation, just open discussion—like we are having here.

As opposed to the piano forum ghost town you usually hang out on, da SDC:

Come on, that's weak and you know it. At some point Pianostreet was teeming with activity, with hundreds of active members—now us two lonely souls are the only sign of life on this particular board in the past few days. That's a ghost town.

While it is true that you could do a census of da SDC on your fingers and toes, at least said members are very active (most likely because they don't have anything else to do).

 

but way more racists

They're not racist! They're...uh...culturally appreciative?

Anyway, who is David Rakowski?  Pretends to know what's up in the 21st Century piano scene, check.

 

Hm, I thought you of all people would know who Rakowski was. I guess now I'm the only person on earth who does.

Radulescu's piano music isn't that great, and is technically elementary.  Anyone could play it.  Feigns familiarity with obscure composers, check.  Thus:

Hey, I was impressed by the Radulescu concert I went to. He's not Michael Finnissy but definitely not "elementary" like Feldman.

I don't follow the 21st century scene like you do, but I know a lot more than I used to know. My theory professor was a student of Sciarrino and he introduced me to a lot of modern composers. Donald Martino, Martin Boykan, and Harold Shapero were also teachers at my school at some point. Not that any of that means much but please don't mistake my exclusion of obscure modern composers in my video for a complete lack of knowledge—and I will reiterate that the main contributing factor to said exclusion is an inability to find sheet music and recordings.

I'm sure that if you were ever to make a silly video such as mine, you would come up with the same problem. Unless, of course, you sit on a goldmine and can afford the ridiculous prices for contemporary scores.

It seems that you're the one with this quality - just without the actual knowledge

 

Guilty as charged. I guess I got tired of hearing that Rach 3 was the greatest and hardest concerto ever written.

You posted your 100 special, most favorite-est concerti

Well, that can't be true considering that the Czerny concerto is in there. There is also no lost love for the so called "peoplemusik" and that awful Thalberg concerto.

Anyways, good chat and Merry Christmas!

[thalbergmad]

There is also no lost love for the so called "peoplemusik" and that awful Thalberg concerto.

And I didn't think you could exceed the idiocy of your first post.

[achoo42]

Ah, yes. The famous thalbergmad is indeed, Thalberg mad. Forgive me for assessing the immature concerto of a teenager with the orchestration skill of Chopin and the melodic toolbox of Czerny as something other than unqualified genius.

[thalbergmad]

To make that remark, you must know even less about Czerny than you do about piano concertos.

As for orchestration skill, the orchestra was a little more than an accompaniment for many piano concertos of that era. Moscheles, Kalkbrenner, Pixis, Herz, Dreyschock, Field and countless others. It has absolutely nothing to do with skill.

Go do some homework.

Thal

[achoo42]

To make that remark, you must know even less about Czerny than you do about piano concertos.

Oh boy, another Czerny fanatic.

How to describe Czerny? Every sonata, rondo, fantasy, etude, of his uses identical chord progressions and cadential patterns. The melodies in his slow works sound like computer-generated Beethoven, or if Mendelssohn had an extra chromosome. The melodies in his virtuosic works are almost non-existent or banal to the point of excruciating nauseum. 

Czerny's markings in Beethoven and Bach works show that either his metronome was broken, or that he had exquisitely awful taste in music. There is not a single thing Czerny did that Liszt or Chopin did not do better—in fact, it took people like Liszt and Chopin to create any substance at all out of his technical innovations. Any half-decent pianist could casually improvise on any commonplace tune and it would be equal or greater in quality to anything Czerny ever wrote. It is the easiest thing in the world to imitate Czerny's style and it is no wonder that the early works of all the far greater Romantic composers sound like improved Czerny.

I'm glad that you can enjoy Czerny. The vast majority of professional pianists do not, so that makes you very very special.

As for orchestration skill, the orchestra was a little more than an accompaniment for many piano concertos of that era. Moscheles, Kalkbrenner, Pixis, Herz, Dreyschock, Field and countless others. It has absolutely nothing to do with skill.

Go do some homework.

"Orchestration in piano concertos sucked during that time, so it's ok if everybody is doing it." Hats off, an excellent rebuttal.

[thalbergmad]

Congratulations on reaching moron level and even more congratulations in studying the entire piano works of Czerny to make your uneducated broad sweeping statement. Even more congratulations for contacting every professional pianist on the planet to find out if they enjoy Czerny.

Finally, as I will not waste any more words on a preteen, the orchestration on early romantic piano concertos do not suck. They were sufficient for their intended purpose.

Good luck on any future ignorance projects.

Bye bye

Thal

[achoo42]

...the orchestration on early romantic piano concertos do not suck. They were sufficient for their intended purpose.

This must be about the most useless counterargument one could come up with.

If the orchestration is bland and uninspired, saying that "it's ok because the composer wanted it this way" is an abysmal attempt at an apologetic.

Are all of your sixteen-thousand(!) posts similarly poor arguments?

[pukaly]

The concerts are really difficult and have high technology to help students improve their abilities. Add your music here as ringtones:klingeltöne