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Topic: Vers la flamme Middle Section Interp  (Read 1074 times)

Offline fftransform

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Vers la flamme Middle Section Interp
on: December 11, 2020, 12:49:02 AM
Started this piece a while back, dropped it, then restarted it recently.

In the middle, transitional section between the opening 'chorale' and the tremolos, what are people's thoughts on the interp once the LH arpeggios come in - basically once it starts climaxing?

Especially the right hand figures, when they start getting more varied?  Different recs deal with these notes in very different ways; Horowitz's recs are on one extreme end of the spectrum where he uses them as melodic material, then Laredo and Sofronitsky are kind of on the other extreme end where they're basically silent, just adding an imperceptible fog of tone.  Most recs pick and choose, emphasizing a couple here or there.  There's also a lot of rhythmic variety in the standard recs, with some playing it very misurato and others playing it completely freely, and with a lot of variance in tempo.

Is this section pretty much just completely open to interpretation?  Does anyone have any especially strong opinions on it?
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Offline fftransform

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Re: Vers la flamme Middle Section Interp
Reply #1 on: December 12, 2020, 12:03:21 AM
Sorry, realize that's sort of unclear.  This is the section I'm talking about; the figures in question are marked in red.



I have trouble figuring out what a lot of pianists are even doing with these figures, it gets so blurry.  Just not sure what to do to make it sound right haha

Here it starts at about 2:10:



And here is like the 'opposite' approach, starting at about 2:05:

Offline rmgatl

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Re: Vers la flamme Middle Section Interp
Reply #2 on: December 24, 2020, 01:31:02 AM
Fwiw I play it as a counter melody, that also serves to maintain the disturbing polyrhythmic texture, the 12 against 5.  Not a great recording, go to around 12:20 I think.  Hope this helps.

Offline fftransform

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Re: Vers la flamme Middle Section Interp
Reply #3 on: January 02, 2021, 04:09:12 PM
Thanks dude, you keep the flow very intelligible.  That's the hard part for me.

Now I'm struggling with the last couple pages.  Those tremolos are dicks, especially the one that accompanies the D-G-C chords.  Everyone has different fingerings (handings, in this case?), I see you're crossing over to get them with the LH xD  That's a new one to me.

But yeah, they're way too weak just in the LH as my score implies, I think for that one I'm gonna try Kobrin's, where he switches hands on it.



Tons of cool ideas in his interpretation, though still seems there was some stuff to work out.  Sokolov's intro is also really cool, the most similar to mine.

Offline rmgatl

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Re: Vers la flamme Middle Section Interp
Reply #4 on: January 03, 2021, 04:14:25 PM
It’s a fun piece.  I recall picking up ideas from Horowitz and others.  Getting the 12 against 5 and voicing the counter melody and texture in the section you asked about is a big deal. You have to just feel the polyrhythms, steady momentum, but not metronomic.  I personally don’t like a lot of rubato in this piece...like it to feel like you’re inexorably flowing down this steady horrific path into the flames.  I have a better recording of an NPR radio recital I did that I might figure out how to post.  I was pretty happy with that interpretation in this section...execution better some days than others.

To me, the sheer violence, physicality and exhaustion becomes an issue toward the end.  But as you say, pianists can make their choices about how to get that done. I didn’t want to gas out on LH tremolos. Helps to back off a good bit just before the last two pages, give the listener (and yourself:-) a break. All that horror and sound has to somehow be sustained and even built further into the ending.  Of course technique and decisions matter, but this is just a big physical piece.  The good news is I’m 6’4” 250 lbs, bad news is I’m 64 lol, not getting easier.  I have a Steinway D and it got to where I had to practice this when my family was gone...would blow everyone out of our 6000 s.f. house, even the dog would run out of the room.

Anyway, good luck and have fun with it.

Offline fftransform

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Re: Vers la flamme Middle Section Interp
Reply #5 on: January 03, 2021, 07:09:42 PM
Oh, I like a lot of rubato xD  Like a giant, unmetered crescendo going into the Lumineux-Eclatant (spelling).  Naybe not quite as 'salon' as Kobrin's, but I like that interp; I like Laredo's as well.  That's making it harder to get a 'baseline interp', cuz tbh I don't even know in my head exactly what I want, yet.

I'm left-handed, I don't mind the fingering given in the 1st edition except for that one with the thumb on the g#.  I cheat on all of them tho, just breaking them up as two on top and two on bottom and doing it with the wrist, but will slam them as-written for the first few as the repeated chords are going on.  Doesn't really affect the sound to me cuz my finale is pretty fast compared to most.

Offline rmgatl

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Re: Vers la flamme Middle Section Interp
Reply #6 on: January 04, 2021, 01:19:24 AM
I took Sofronitsky as sort of baseline given his connections to Scriabin...assume you’ve heard that.  Also Horowitz for same reason - impressive but of course eccentric.
Lots of room to try things, make it your own.
Great piece.  Enjoy.
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