Can anyone advise on what I'm doing wrong?

[nw746]

So I made a thread a while back about building discipline to practice. It had a lot of good ideas offered, most of which I wasn't able to do, because I was very demotivated over the last month or so and only able to get my mind into the correct mental state to practice on three, non-consecutive, days.

Anyway: the advice that was given included (among other things) choosing a short piece that was easy to play, so I picked this one—Mendelssohn's Lied ohne Worte in f-sharp minor op. 67 no. 2—because it also contained one specific thing I want to learn to do: light staccato playing. My reference pianist for this kind of playing is Olli Mustonen: all notes are crisply detached from one another, very even both in rhythm and in dynamics, and equally short and clear at all dynamic levels.

Allowing for the obvious facts that I've only had three days of practice, and haven't memorised the piece (which was also in the advice given here—i.e. don't memorise a piece until you've learned to play it), there are nonetheless a number of things wrong with what I'm doing, which have not improved over the course of practice sessions. The staccatos are not short enough; they are not quiet enough in p dynamics (and not loud enough in f dynamics); and there is no evenness, either rhythmic or dynamic. When playing it, I still feel that I have basically no control over the fine gradations of rhythm and dynamics, and that any evenness that happens is pure luck. So I'm interested to know what is going wrong that I am not seeing. I obviously can tell when I play wrong notes (which I do a few times here, those are all things on my list to correct) or when my fingerings are unworkable/awkward (which they are in a few places, mostly after the second voice comes in & I have to play in thirds). But I have no idea why I can't get dynamic or rhythmic evenness, or can't feel the difference between, say, playing a staccato note p vs playing it mp.

Any advice would therefore be appreciated. I know the obvious advice is "practice more often than three times a month" and like, I will work on that, but I also want to know what to focus on when practicing in order to build control.

[lostinidlewonder]

I would say one of the larger challenges of this piece is to keep the staccatos light and generally in the background vs a melodic line with nice long legato phrases and which stands out above all else. It might be an idea when practicing to simply overdo the contrast between the two it will help you achieve the touch which will really allow you to pull out the melodic lines and do more with the piece. Really work hard on the RH making the melodic lines as smooth as possible.

[lelle]

I don't think you are doing too bad and if you practise a bit and stay patient with it I think this will improve a lot. Giving advice on technique I think is hard to do on a forum because it is so individual and personal, but I'll try.

First of all - can you make the kind of staccato you want at all, on only say one or a few isolated notes or chords? If not, you'll have to start there. If you can make one note or chord sound appropriately short and with the sound and dynamic you want, you can then try to extend that to more notes. But if you can't make even one note sound the way you want, I think its a tall order to expect yourself to do the whole piece the way you want.

For the technique to get the sound I will suggest some ideas you can play with and see if they help. Looking at your video, it looks like you are making individual arm movements on each note/chord, while your hands/fingers are a bit too inactive. While the arm certainly is involved in playing at times, in my own experience too much arm and too little fine control out in the hand and fingers tends to make my sound and rhythm become more crude and uneven. Fine control and lightness I think is a question of fine control out in the hands, and not of arm movements (but don't tense/restrict your arms, let them feel natural and free). You should still feel relaxed and comfortable but the playing is felt more out in the hand/fingertips rather than in the arms.

Don't get too caught in the exact words I use to try to explain it, but experiment a bit with just feeling like you are softly using your hands/fingers/fingertips to play this and see if it gets you anywhere. Also see if you can feel sequences of staccatos as one gesture, rather than as individual, separate movements.

[nw746]

It might be an idea when practicing to simply overdo the contrast between the two it will help you achieve the touch which will really allow you to pull out the melodic lines and do more with the piece. Really work hard on the RH making the melodic lines as smooth as possible.

This is probably a good idea. I haven't focused on the contrast at all, or bringing out the melody in general, because I've been so focused on control of touch, but I guess contrast plays into that as well.

First of all - can you make the kind of staccato you want at all, on only say one or a few isolated notes or chords? If not, you'll have to start there. If you can make one note or chord sound appropriately short and with the sound and dynamic you want, you can then try to extend that to more notes. But if you can't make even one note sound the way you want, I think its a tall order to expect yourself to do the whole piece the way you want.

I have rhythmic control for single notes, or groups of notes played very slowly (like, half tempo or so); it's only once the notes reach a certain threshold of about five per second that I lose rhythmic control. In terms of dynamic control, although I can play individual notes slowly with dynamic evenness, I don't really know what I'm actually doing to make them sound even, and therefore can't replicate that at faster tempi. I think it probably has a lot to do with learning what part of your body to use to produce any given dynamic level.

This piano (at my parents' house) also doesn't have very good action, some notes always turn out marginally louder or softer than others, but I think that's something a skilled pianist should usually be able to work with.

Looking at your video, it looks like you are making individual arm movements on each note/chord, while your hands/fingers are a bit too inactive. While the arm certainly is involved in playing at times, in my own experience too much arm and too little fine control out in the hand and fingers tends to make my sound and rhythm become more crude and uneven. Fine control and lightness I think is a question of fine control out in the hands, and not of arm movements (but don't tense/restrict your arms, let them feel natural and free). You should still feel relaxed and comfortable but the playing is felt more out in the hand/fingertips rather than in the arms.

This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for, thanks. I think I have very weak fingers for whatever reason—have always noticed that I have basically no control when I'm trying to move just my fingers without moving my wrists/arms, and that using certain fingers at all (RH 4 and LH 5) in that manner immediately causes tension and pain through the wrist tendons. So whenever playing the piano I guess I've tried to use my fingers as little as possible, but obviously, that has led to a state where I have almost no fine control.

(To be fair, I have minimal fine motor control in any area; I can't hold pens or pencils without cramping up my wrists, can't sew, can't do up buttons etc. It's just a deficiency I was born with. Realistically, I guess I shouldn't be able to play the piano at all.)

The next time I get a chance to practice I will do as you suggest and try to focus on finger independence, because gaining strength in that area should allow me to not just play this piece but also potentially improve in things like scales & double notes that I've never really been able to do either (at least not at any speed faster than about five per second, again).

[lelle]

I think I have very weak fingers for whatever reason—have always noticed that I have basically no control when I'm trying to move just my fingers without moving my wrists/arms, and that using certain fingers at all (RH 4 and LH 5) in that manner immediately causes tension and pain through the wrist tendons. So whenever playing the piano I guess I've tried to use my fingers as little as possible, but obviously, that has led to a state where I have almost no fine control.

(To be fair, I have minimal fine motor control in any area; I can't hold pens or pencils without cramping up my wrists, can't sew, can't do up buttons etc. It's just a deficiency I was born with. Realistically, I guess I shouldn't be able to play the piano at all.)

Honestly you sound like you are pretty similar to me in this area It took me a long time and a lot of work but I have been able to make improvements so there is hope for sure!

Regarding finger strength, consider this. The flexors (the muscles that make your fingers grip/press down piano keys) are on the average person strong enough to support your entire body weight when you hang from a bar at the gym, for example. Even if they aren't quite that strong, it's still plenty of strength and way more than what is needed to press down a piano key. Lack of strength at the piano is 99% a coordination issue, rather than, well, a strength issue. One example of what can make my fingers feel weak and ineffective is if there is a habit of tensing the extensors (the muscles that lift the fingers/wrists) at the same time as you try to move the finger down to press down the key (i.e. using the flexors). You can still move your fingers if it happens, but you'll feel much weaker because your flexors are fighting the strength of your extensors. The movement isn't coordinated. What should be happening is that you teach your extensors to be relaxed while you use your flexors so that they don't hinder the free, quick and efficient downward mvoement of the fingers. Moreover, the fingers have separate tendons, but they originate from the same muscle. This means that if one finger is tense as you try to move another finger, it will impact all the other fingers.

Check that you aren't tensing/cramping/stiffening the non-playing fingers or your wrists as you use one finger. You can do this one hand at a time, and use your other hand to check if your fingers are limp and supple or even slightly tense.