How do I identify chord numbers underneath each measure?

[tomp86]

Hi all.
I am studying an old piano book that I have that asks me to mark the chord numbers under each measure of the piece. Can someone please explain to me the process to identify what the cord (broken down) is, based on the notes in the measure. To me it seems like there is a mixture of notes from multiple cords and I don't exactly know how to identify the cord they would like me to identify. The book asked me to identify the I and the V7 (dominant seventh) chords and only they will be used throughout the piece. The piece and authors instructions are provided below. Thank you or anyone that could help me figure this out!

https://imgur.com/a/YTPBZlp

[lelle]

What has the book taught you before this exercise? The answer is fairly straightforward if the assumption is that there is one chord per measure, have they said anything about that? Or will there be multiple chords per measure?

It'll be slightly easier to see if you are familiar with melodic devices such as suspensions and passing notes, see a brief overview here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonchord_tone

With the base assumption that there is one main chord per measure, either a I or a V7, start with just familiarizing yourself with how the I and V7 look and sound on the piano in root position - FAC and CEGBb. Then play each measure and try to identify if most of the notes used come from the I or the V7. Measure 4, 5, 6 and 8 should be pretty obvious. If you stack all the notes played in these measures together and play them at the same time (one stack per measure) you'll get either a I or a V7 in some inversion.

In measures 1, 2,3 and 7 there are one or two notes that don't fit into the correct chord. But if you combine looking at what chord the majority of the notes employed come from, and particularly what chord the notes used in the left hand (i.e. the bass line) fit, you should be able to figure it out. The bassline is kind of the "floor" your harmony stands on, so it has an important role in informing what the harmony is.

If you are supposed to mark I or V7 at every harmony change you can just go note-by note and check which notes are sounding together at that particular moment and see which of the chord they fit and you'll have your answer.

Please ask if you have any question, and I'll try to answer more specifically.

[keypeg]

It is a good exercise.  I see this is on p. 32, so I don't know if p. 1 - 31 may have some information that you should get first, and use here.

They are focusing on only two chords: the I chord and the V7 chord.  Your I chord is the chord that is built on the Tonic of the key (if your piece is in F major - 1 flat in signature - then the Tonic is F major - first note of the scale of that key).  Your V chord is built on the chord from the 5th note up in that key - C in F major. So I has the notes FAC in any order: V7 has C E G Bb in any order.

A piece of music that is harmonized by a given chord, will have mostly the notes of that chord, and you may be able to hear the character of that chord.  So you can ask yourself "Am I hearing / seeing mostly the notes FAC, or the notes CEGBb?"  Notice that the F chord doesn't have any of the notes that the C7 chord has. has different notes than the C7 chord except for C which both have in common.

Often simpler music will have a pattern of two phrases, where the first phrase feels incomplete, like "leg up in the air, ready to take another step", while the 2nd phrase feels like "now finally both feet are down and we've arrived".  Often that is done by ending the first phrase with the Dominant chord (C7 or C) - the Dominant "wants to move back home to the Tonic" - hence you "haven't arrived".  Then the "arrival" phrase will end on the Tonic chord, and if it's really "done and complete", your melody will end on the Tonic.  See if that is happening here.

[lelle]

Notice that the F chord doesn't have any of the notes that the C7 chord has.

I agree with your answer apart from a minor correction: F and C7 have one note in common - C.

[keypeg]

I shouldn't write when tired. Thanks.  I corrected it.

[ranjit]

From a slightly more advanced viewpoint music theory-wise, we are talking about chord tones and non chord tones, and which ways to use non chord tones are idiomatic. Generally, chord tones fall on the strong beats. In classical music, the 1st beat of a measure is a strong beat, and so it will almost always be a chord tone. I think in common time, the third beat is strong as well. Try to listen to the melody, play it on a keyboard if you have to. Then try and get a feel for which are the "stable" notes and which are the "unstable" ones leading to the stable ones. These will correspond to chord tones and non chord tones respectively.

To start out, the very first note will be a chord tone.

[timothy42b]

I do this pretty often, when I have to write bell accompaniments simple enough for the players. 

Look at the key signature.  Take a pencil and write the notes for the I and V7 chords up on the top of the sheet music.  Example 1 sharp, you're probably in G assuming major, so write G B D for I, D F# A C for V7.  Then go beat by beat, or measure by measure, matching the notes to the chord.  If there are moving notes against the chord they probably won't fit, don't worry about it. 

If you get good enough to do this while playing you can "sightread" and nobody will know you aren't playing all the written notes. 

[tomp86]

Thanks everyone for pointing out V7 (C7 in this case) is CEGBb. I thought it was EBbC.
The instructions in the book say the V7 is a 3 note chord so I never knew it had g



With the G also in the chord, it makes the task a little easier

Could someone please verify if my chord markings look correct

What has the book taught you before this exercise? The answer is fairly straightforward if the assumption is that there is one chord per measure

Yep, the book would like just 1 chord per measure as it has done through the previous exercises.

It'll be slightly easier to see if you are familiar with melodic devices such as suspensions and passing notes, see a brief overview here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonchord_tone

Thanks for this link it makes good night reading   

The bassline is kind of the "floor" your harmony stands on, so it has an important role in informing what the harmony is.

Good tip

Often simpler music will have a pattern of two phrases, where the first phrase feels incomplete, like "leg up in the air, ready to take another step", while the 2nd phrase feels like "now finally both feet are down and we've arrived".  Often that is done by ending the first phrase with the Dominant chord (C7 or C) - the Dominant "wants to move back home to the Tonic" - hence you "haven't arrived".  Then the "arrival" phrase will end on the Tonic chord, and if it's really "done and complete", your melody will end on the Tonic.  See if that is happening here.

Yep, I see that. I'll keep an eye out for that while I study pieces. Thanks

Generally, chord tones fall on the strong beats. In classical music, the 1st beat of a measure is a strong beat, and so it will almost always be a chord tone. I think in common time, the third beat is strong as well.
To start out, the very first note will be a chord tone.

Good point ranjit

If you get good enough to do this while playing you can "sightread" and nobody will know you aren't playing all the written notes. 

Thats a pretty cool skill. This particular piece is in f

So in summary, to find the chord we add up all the chord tones and see which chord corresponds most correctly to the set of tones, listen to them together to see how it sounds against chord possibilities, pay particular attention to the baseline tones as its the floor and we put more emphasis on the accented beats (such as the first beat of each measure on certain pieces)

[lelle]

Thanks everyone for pointing out V7 (C7 in this case) is CEGBb. I thought it was EBbC.
The instructions in the book say the V7 is a 3 note chord so I never knew it had g

That's odd that they would say that. All these chords in their simplest forms are triads that you build starting on that particular scale degree, using the notes given to you by the scale. So the I in F major is, of course, F A C, the IV, for example, is Bb D F since Bb is the fourth scale degree in F major, and the V is C E G since C is the fifth scale degree. V7 means that you add a seventh as well, so in F major the V7 = C7 which is C E G Bb. It gets a bit more nuanced than that later but that's the gist of it.

So in summary, to find the chord we add up all the chord tones and see which chord corresponds most correctly to the set of tones, listen to them together to see how it sounds against chord possibilities, pay particular attention to the baseline tones as its the floor and we put more emphasis on the accented beats (such as the first beat of each measure on certain pieces)

Pretty much. Later on there are more things you can pay attention to. In tonal music there are some very common patterns of chords, harmonic functions, that are used by the composers that you'll learn to recognize, which helps you rule out some things that wouldn't make sense within those patterns. A very common pattern, for example, is going from V or V7 to I at the end of a piece or section, you'll see it everywhere if you look, particularly in Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Chopin etc.

[timothy42b]

Two thoughts.

First, your March example, look at the chord structure.  These are close chord progression.  You do not play I, IV, and V in root position.  Instead, you are playing all three chords with minimum finger movement and no hand movement, by changing inversions.  This is extremely useful to practice, especially when you need to accompany or simplify.  The defect is that the lower you play close position chords the muddier they sound.  This doesn't work at all low in the bass. 

Second and more important, when I looked at your second example, the tune played in my head, and I started thinking what chord should harmonize.  The sheet music is visual but harmony is very definitely not, it is about sound.  The better way to do that is to play the melody repeatedly while trying to fit the chords to it.  You know you have only two choices, I and V7, so which sounds better?  For an easy way to practice type it into a notation program and set it to play repeatedly while you try to fit notes to it. 

Yes, to answer a quiz you need an intellectual understanding of what scale notes fit with a I chord as opposed to a V chord, but to play music you need to fit sounds to sounds, and if you can do that you may not even need to understand the theory.

[j_tour]

Yes, to answer a quiz you need an intellectual understanding of what scale notes fit with a I chord as opposed to a V chord, but to play music you need to fit sounds to sounds, and if you can do that you may not even need to understand the theory.

Thank you for that:  I was trying in the subconscious to describe the relationship between a melody and the bare harmony, which is obvious here, but I couldn't figure out how to describe it.

But the examples aren't asking for a lot of the "miniature" cadences done within the bar, that would be kind of messy to annotate. 

So it's easy to chalk those up to suspensions and such, but a lot of the texture of even just a hymn gets its texture or "juice" from including a little plagal cadence between the phrases.  Or quite a few different harmonies.  Kind of "microharmonies," really.

At least as an accompanist.

Yeah, that is odd that the first description in the book of the V7 is in the first inversion, but then again, that's the way it often is IRL.  Fragments of a V7b9 or something else:  it's not really that obvious usually, using the roots of the chords.

[tomp86]

So the I in F major is, of course, F A C, the IV, for example, is Bb D F since Bb is the fourth scale degree in F major, and the V is C E G since C is the fifth scale degree. V7 means that you add a seventh as well, so in F major the V7 = C7 which is C E G Bb. It gets a bit more nuanced than that later but that's the gist of it.

lelle your explanation is so much better than the book. Thanks very much. it's just the triad + a 7th note on the end. So simple.  I think the book excluded a note cause it doesn't want me to play 4 note chords yet 

First, your March example, look at the chord structure.  These are close chord progression.  You do not play I, IV, and V in root position.  Instead, you are playing all three chords with minimum finger movement and no hand movement, by changing inversions.  This is extremely useful to practice, especially when you need to accompany or simplify.

Are you saying this example from my text book is a good practice exercise? Also, the book only introduces 2 chords I and V7.  Good tips of listing to tones to fit chords

[timothy42b]

Are you saying this example from my text book is a good practice exercise? Also, the book only introduces 2 chords I and V7.  Good tips of listing to tones to fit chords

I'm not a piano teacher nor even a good player so this is just my opinion.

Somewhere I have an example of how to do this, but without a keyboard in front of me I can't explain it very well.  But you know you can play a C major chord in inversions, right?  You can play C E G which is root.  But move your hand to the right and play E G C and that's still a C chord, or move it even further right and play G C E and that's a C chord.

Well, it turns out that with your hand on C E G which is I, without moving your hand you can also reach C F A  which is IV, and you can reach B F G which is V7.  Now move your hand to the right to play E G C and guess what, the same thing happens.  You can play all 3 chords with hardly any movement.  Move it right again, and again all three chords, in close position. 

When I was starting in church piano I spent a lot of time drilling all three chords in all three positions, in all keys.  When all else fails those three chords will always harmonize a melody.  It won't be the right harmonization but 98% of people can't tell.  And playing from a lead sheet, which you have to do a lot of in churches that do contemporary music, that drill in just a couple of common keys will let you play above your skill level. 

[keypeg]

That's odd that they would say that. ...

These books for students often give incomplete explanations.  I've seen this particular one before.  You only need 3 of the 4 notes of a V7 chord for it to work musically, and in particular inversions, the student only needs to move the fingers of the hands a little bit for the new chord.  So the books lazily say that X "is" a given chord, which is sort of correct - but they don't state that one note has been left out, or that it's an inversion, or what inversions - or anything much really.

I already suspected this and should have written something, because in the original link, you see "V7  = E Bb C" written in pencil in the top right corner.

[ranjit]

I never had a problem understanding these after finishing the course brogers70 suggested (Write Like Mozart on coursera). I found the instructor to be very good, and he didn't gloss over the fundamentals. I still go back to that occasionally to check things such as counterpoint rules. I remember, for example, that he explicitly mentioned which notes can be left out of chords in four part harmony -- it's not that complicated, it's almost always the 5 lol

[lelle]

These books for students often give incomplete explanations.  I've seen this particular one before.  You only need 3 of the 4 notes of a V7 chord for it to work musically, and in particular inversions, the student only needs to move the fingers of the hands a little bit for the new chord.  So the books lazily say that X "is" a given chord, which is sort of correct - but they don't state that one note has been left out, or that it's an inversion, or what inversions - or anything much really.

I already suspected this and should have written something, because in the original link, you see "V7  = E Bb C" written in pencil in the top right corner.

That's so odd. When I learn things I like learning the foundational principles and building from there. Especially in this type of theory where the basics are so simple while at the same time being so necessary for understanding what comes next. Like OP's confusion could have been greatly helped just by introducing some proper foundational elements first. I don't know why anyone would start out by teaching these weirdly specific scenarios before getting into the basics. It goes against every instinct I have both as a teacher and a student.

[timothy42b]

That's so odd. When I learn things I like learning the foundational principles and building from there. Especially in this type of theory where the basics are so simple while at the same time being so necessary for understanding what comes next. Like OP's confusion could have been greatly helped just by introducing some proper foundational elements first. I don't know why anyone would start out by teaching these weirdly specific scenarios before getting into the basics. It goes against every instinct I have both as a teacher and a student.

Well..... I see your point but I think the specific can work too, depending on how it's done.

I read some of my wife's theory texts, and could understand them, but with out practical applications they didn't stick. When I ran a praise band I would review just the piece I needed and now I understood. With a teacher you could go back and forth between basic and application but that's hard on your own. Or with a bad teacher.

[tomp86]

Well, it turns out that with your hand on C E G which is I, without moving your hand you can also reach C F A  which is IV, and you can reach B F G which is V7.  Now move your hand to the right to play E G C and guess what, the same thing happens.  You can play all 3 chords with hardly any movement.  Move it right again, and again all three chords, in close position. 

When I was starting in church piano I spent a lot of time drilling all three chords in all three positions, in all keys.

Cool. I'll try this when I'm at the keyboard. Sounds very handy to know I,IV,V all close together

These books for students often give incomplete explanations.  I've seen this particular one before.  You only need 3 of the 4 notes of a V7 chord for it to work musically, and in particular inversions, the student only needs to move the fingers of the hands a little bit for the new chord.

I think the author would've kept in mind also that these teachings would be used on toddlers who are learning early and would not have the hand span to reach a four note dominant seventh

I never had a problem understanding these after finishing the course brogers70 suggested (Write Like Mozart on coursera)

Thanks for the course 

Like OP's confusion could have been greatly helped just by introducing some proper foundational elements first. I don't know why anyone would start out by teaching these weirdly specific scenarios before getting into the basics. It goes against every instinct I have both as a teacher and a student.

I agree. Or at least if they want to teach the simplified inverted way they should not have asked me to mark the chord number under each measure as I felt I did not have enough information

[ranjit]

These books for students often give incomplete explanations.  I've seen this particular one before.  You only need 3 of the 4 notes of a V7 chord for it to work musically, and in particular inversions, the student only needs to move the fingers of the hands a little bit for the new chord.  So the books lazily say that X "is" a given chord, which is sort of correct - but they don't state that one note has been left out, or that it's an inversion, or what inversions - or anything much really.

Right, I remember that Alfred's book did this. The inversion makes more sense from a voice leading perspective and is a more common pianistic configuration, which is why it's used.

Yeah, imo if you're an adult and can stomach it, don't pick up theory from a method book, check out the real deal instead.

[keypeg]

That's so odd. When I learn things I like learning the foundational principles and building from there. Especially in this type of theory where the basics are so simple while at the same time being so necessary for understanding what comes next. Like OP's confusion could have been greatly helped just by introducing some proper foundational elements first. I don't know why anyone would start out by teaching these weirdly specific scenarios before getting into the basics. It goes against every instinct I have both as a teacher and a student.

It's due to twisted marketing ideas. Adults want "fast results" - go for immediate results. Give explanations that look like explanations.  If it seems to sell, go for it.  What cares what it does to actual learning. If you've written the book, you probably have never actually taught anyone.

[1piano4joe]

Hi tomp86,

Way, way back in the day I learned cadences in all the keys.

I was taught play ceg in the left hand with fingers 531. That is a root position I chord.

Next, keep your pinky on c and with fingers 21 play the notes fa. This is a 2nd inversion IV chord.

Next, go back to the I chord again.

Next, play bfg with 521. This is a V7 chord.

Then back to c again.

Repeat this over and over till you get very fast. Then do the right hand. Then do them together.

Start again with C#, do I, IV, V7. Then D, Eb, E, F, F#,G, Ab, A, Bb, B

You do not have to read these. They should feel and sound right after just doing plain old C!

I would recommend "Alfred's" book of scales, chords, arpeggios and cadences.

Eventually, you will have learned in any Major key, that there are 7 chords belonging to that key because the scale is a heptatonic scale. There are 3 major chords, 3 minor chords and 1 diminished.

1,4, and 5 are major. 2,3, and 6 minor. 7 is diminished.

The "Alfred" will then take you through the minor keys. 1 and 4 are minor, 2 and 7 are diminished, 3 is augmented, and 5 and 6 are major. This is based on the harmonic minor scale.

If this sounds really difficult or confusing, don't worry about it for now. It takes awhile depending on how much you study, practice, etc.

I hope I have been helpful, Joe.

[tomp86]

I was taught play ceg in the left hand with fingers 531. That is a root position I chord.

Next, keep your pinky on c and with fingers 21 play the notes fa. This is a 2nd inversion IV chord.

Next, go back to the I chord again.

Next, play bfg with 521. This is a V7 chord.

Then back to c again.

Repeat this over and over till you get very fast. Then do the right hand. Then do them together.

Start again with C#, do I, IV, V7. Then D, Eb, E, F, F#,G, Ab, A, Bb, B

You do not have to read these. They should feel and sound right after just doing plain old C!

I would recommend "Alfred's" book of scales, chords, arpeggios and cadences.

Hi Joe. Thanks, I'll try this for sure. Sounds like a quick way to learn I, IV and V7 for all keys.  Also Ill get myself a copy fo Afreds book.  Thanks 

[gtpiano]

"V7 means that you add a seventh as well, so in F major the V7 = C7 which is C E G Bb"

Shouldn't that read you add a [flattened seventh] as well, given the V7, in this case, is a dominant seventh chord?

See replacement entry including quoted sentence. sorry about that.

[gtpiano]

V7 means that you add a seventh as well, so in F major the V7 = C7 which is C E G Bb.

Shouldn't that read, you add the [flattened 7th as well] given the V7 = C7 is the fifth, i.e., dominant 7th chord?

[lelle]

Shouldn't that read, you add the [flattened 7th as well] given the V7 = C7 is the fifth, i.e., dominant 7th chord?

It's implied since in traditional harmony you use the flattened seventh by default to make a dominant chord more dominant-y. At least in functional analysis; I'm less conversant with roman numerals. In F major it's fairly intuitive that V7 (C7) will have a flattened seventh since that pitch is given by the scale. But unless I am mistaken I7 in F major will be a F7 chord (and not Fmaj7) by default as well.

[j_tour]

It's implied since in traditional harmony you use the flattened seventh by default to make a dominant chord more dominant-y.

Well, sure.  In fact, I think it's the tritone interval between the third and the minor 7 that makes it most dominant of all!  (Disregarding any other even more...persuasive...tensions added at the 9, 11, and 13).

But unless I am mistaken I7 in F major will be a F7 chord (and not Fmaj7) by default as well.

I've never seen a __7 notation used to mean anything but a minor seventh. 

I think it's a deeply rooted prejudice against the maj7:  very unfair! 

[lelle]

Well, sure.  In fact, I think it's the tritone interval between the third and the minor 7 that makes it most dominant of all!  (Disregarding any other even more...persuasive...tensions added at the 9, 11, and 13).

Yeah that makes sense. I now feel I need some more... persuasive... tensions in my life. 

[timothy42b]

I think it's a deeply rooted prejudice against the maj7:  very unfair! 

Tell that to James Pankow.

And now you all have an earworm, Color My World. 

You're welcome.