Tuning your own pianos?

[rhapsody in orange]

Hi,
Does anyone here tune your own pianos? I was thinking of doing that but firstly is there somewhere which I can learn to tune my own piano? Advices/opinions anyone?

[xvimbi]

My opinion is that doing a good job requires a lot of training. Anyway, you could start by reading books on the topic (look at amazon, for example, you'll find several).

Also, check out
https://www.affleckpianotuning.com/pianotuning.html
https://www.petesummers.com/bookcat.html

It's just a start.

[Michele Felice]

There are a couple of areas of skill (at least) that you will need to deal with: how to space the notes (setting the temperament and stretching the octaves) and settling the strings and setting the tuning pins (making a stable tuning). Both of these skill areas take lots and lots of practice before you develop any proficiency--probably several hundred tunings. When you start out, tuning is a very very slow process, taking several hours. Speed (a tuning in two hours or less) comes with lots of practice. One of the problems is that setting strings where you want them to be comes with lots of experience; unless you can set the strings very solidly were you want them, you cannot set a good temperament or stretch over the whole of the piano.

You might start by getting a tuning lever and some mutes and trying to clean up the unison tuning on your piano between professional tunings. Many pianists do this (with greater or lesser success).

Something else to keep in mind is that the more tuning you do on your own piano during the learning process, the more you will have to put up with a piano that doesn't sound very good when you want to play. So, having access to a second piano, just for tuning practice, is not a bad idea (if demanding of space and some expense). I started learning to tune on university pianos while apprenticed to an experienced technician. I could hardly make those pianos sound worse.

A great way to learn about how to tune is to attend a Piano Technicians Guild conference (many regional chapters have such conferences, and there will be a big one  in California this month) and audit a tuning class. There are many tricks to tuning, and it is a difficult skill to learn from a book.

[chickering9]

Very good advice from Michelle which saves me all that typing.  But replying to say that I am a player who does do his own tuning and regulation regularly.  There are no shortcuts to experience.  But if you have a little talent, you could learn it like anything else, by reading and doing and learning from your mistakes.  I've gone as far as restringing one and hanging a complete set of new hammers and shanks (including assembly, repinning and weighing out) on another.  My tunings now at 3 years are good and very stable (a full 6 months--but just yesterday I checked the concert grand with an ETD because it had reached six months and couldn't find a single wire in any unison measureably out!).  I didn't make any mistakes with the hammers or stringing (held my breath) and got great results.  But I did read lots beforehand and took the time to read 1,000s of posts at PTG.  But my first two tunings were NOT pretty.  Practicing on an old beater is good advice.  I worked my way up gradually from a mediocre late-model upright, to my small grands, and finally to my concert grand.  I took it up because I wasn't satisfied with the "best" tuner/tech in our area.  My neighbors on three sides still use him.  They've asked me to do theirs after playing mine, but I refuse.  It *is* substantial work and worth what you pay and every piano has it's own idiosyncracies to deal with that require a good ear and some decision making--if it's going to be done well enough to please you.  If you're in a situation like my own, the old axiom of "if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" might be true. 

[rhapsody in orange]

Thanks for the replies 
Michele you mentioned something about setting the temperament when tuning the piano. Does that mean you tune by ear? My technician has been tuning with an eletronic tuner all the while so I don't know if that is advisable. Think I shall observe the next time someone proficient tunes a piano. Nothing beats looking at the process itself. =)

[Michele Felice]

The traditional way of tuning a piano starts with a "temperament" octave, say from F3 to F4, in which the tuner spaces the notes according to his knowledge of that particular piano and its stretch requirements (stretch is the amount that intervals in a piano are tuned wide of their theoretically-correct fundamental frequencies in equal temperament). A temperment might be set by ear or with a special tuning device which can be set for each particular piano's inharmonicity characteristics.

I learned to tune by ear and after some experience started experimenting with the first electronic tuning device designed specifically for piano tuning. Anyone who tunes pianos well needs to be able to tune by ear, to a minimal skill level, in order to use an electronic tuning device. It us useless to tune a string to a precise frequency if it does not stay exactly where it was set. Without being able to check the piano to make sure no strings have slipped out of tune, the tuner cannot be sure he is producing the desired tuning. The checks have to be made "by ear"--checking and rechecking each note using a tuning device would render the tuning process endless.

Current tuning standards are substantially higher than they were thirty years ago when I learned to tune. Although tuners talk about "temperament" they no longer refer to a very precisely tuned octave in the middle of the keyboard, but essentially to the whole of the piano, with the possible exception of the lowest and highest octaves where other aesthetic considerations may apply.

[jr11]

Sure, why not?

The tools will cost a few hundred dollars. Give it a try, but be prepared to be unhappy with the results. Just keep trying.

If you get frustrated, you can always call a tuner.

[pianonut]

i liked that idea of having two pianos!  one to tune and one to trash.  maybe i'll buy an old piano just to play around with sometime.  it would be handy and cost much less to concertize if you could tune your own!  to me, that's tone.  tuned-tone.  just slightly above pitch.  (by ear)

[pianonut]

i guess i meant the trashed piano is the one that is self-tuned and the other to save (from damage).

[alextryan]

I got started with a correspondence course through the American School of Piano Tuning.  They send a box with a bunch of tools and supplies, and a binder with 10 lessons.  Costs 850 bucks, and I might recommend instead that you call up your local PTG, go to a chapter meeting as a guest, and look at their instructional material.  I think the PACE program is a national thing, and costs maybe 250 all together.  Then add up the cost of basic tools, and see how the cost compares.

I tuned a few pianos of friends and relatives, and then I jumped right into doing it for money.  The going rate around here is $110, and I charge $75.  I'm still staying carefully away from any piano used for real performance, or owned by someone with a discerning ear.  This is not difficult -- families with young kids who are learning to play, nursing homes, churches, and in general any piano that is badly out of tune.  As a beginner you can always make a disaster piano sound a ton better, and that's worth $75 bucks, even if you have to go back a month later to clean up your mistakes. 

I'm having a terrific time doing the work and improving my skills.  I think you'll find PTG people very welcoming and helpful, especially when they see young blood coming into their profession.  They're all well-established, so they won't see you as a threat. 

[Danm]

You have to look at your motivations. If it's anything other than doing it for business (you want to tune pianos for a living), I wouldn't recommend it.

As others have said, it's a skill that takes a lot of time and work. But think of this, now you know how to tune, so the instrument is more than your musical instrument, it's also something you can fix. I think the tendency then is to hear it more form the standpoint of how in tune it is, how well voiced, etc., rather than how well it makes music. Compare to the guys who fix their own cars. How much time do they spend with the car pulled apart tweaking it, versus just taking it out and enjoying it on the road? I know that I would be more critical of my instrument from a technical perspective if I learned how to do this.

Also, tuning is not a particuarly enjoyable activity I think. BANG BANG BANG (to help set the string) - do you really want to do that to your ears? Not me.

Chickering9's comment about wanting the best results is interesting, not sure what I would do in his situation. I probably would have seen if I could get somebody out of the area.  Again for me the danger of it crowding out the music to some degree is too great. I'm relatively lucky to have a tuner/tech who I really like, I've met a lot of, shall we say, unsophisticated tuners in the area!

You didn't say why you want to do it, maybe to save money. If so, the most cost effective thing is to hire it out, and to install a DamppChaser and string cover. My tunings last quite long with a bit of humidity control.

Besides which, real musicians learn to not listen to their instrument anyhow ... 

[iumonito]

Turning pins is just half the process, and probably not the more artistic and aesthetically pleasing half.

A good tuner will also voice (down) your piano and it makes all the difference.  A piano "in tune" with no love to the hammers will not sound materially better than before.  Beware of anyone wanting to voice the piano up, I would not let anyone talking in terms of hardening the hammers a mile near my hammers.  the hardening of teh hammers is a natural process to be done by playing the piano, no other way.

Therefore, when you learn how to do this, learn both how to turn the pins and how to needle the hammers.  I think you'll have lots of fun.

[chickering9]

...But think of this, now you know how to tune, so the instrument is more than your musical instrument, it's also something you can fix. I think the tendency then is to hear it more form the standpoint of how in tune it is, how well voiced, etc., rather than how well it makes music. ...Also, tuning is not a particuarly enjoyable activity I think. BANG BANG BANG (to help set the string) - do you really want to do that to your ears? Not me. ...Chickering9's comment about wanting the best results is interesting, not sure what I would do in his situation. ...Again for me the danger of it crowding out the music to some degree is too great.

I think your points about a shift from hearing the music to hearing the instrument and its current status are valid ones, but if you love playing and making music more than tinkering, you'll choose to just play, even when you hear a note you'd move if you got over that inertia thing as tuning is anything but fun.  It *IS* quite tedious and very tiring.  On the other hand, if you explore other temperaments and can afford to change them from time to time without having to pay a tuner, you discover other levels of musicality of the piano even among your more familiar repertoire.  I see tuning as making me a better musician perhaps.  I'm extremely picky about good tune and regulation and I know I'm at my best performance-wise when both are good.  Since I can't afford to have a tuner in often enough to have a concert-quality tuning and regulation, I've learned to do it myself.  Because I *do* just want to make music, but the best music I can.  And the instrument is an equal partner in that effort.  If it's right, I can do the rest.  If it's not, nothing my fingers can do will make it so.  And, really, while I have picky ears, I do tune on a schedule and play constantly in between.  Sure, I notice if the thing's sharp or flat by a cent or two with weather changes.  And I know it'll be just right with more weather changes.  The sheer work tuning requires *forces* you to make the practical choice to live with those ordinary changes day to day and *not* tune every time it's a little off so you instead get about the business of getting those quintuplets in Lecuona's "Malaguena" uniform and steady or a good legato in DeBussy's "Reverie".  I'd rather know what I know and be able to tune *and* play than play a piano freshly-tuned by some "pro" who hasn't got an ear and won't use a machine and calls it "Equal" temperament and hasn't a clue about any other temperament.  I really do think most players would absolutely *hate* the work involved in tuning themselves, so I do *not* recommend it, but for those who are willing to do the work periodically, I think it makes them understand more clearly what is possible with their piano if they learn to do it well, and can help them even become better players when they can keep their piano delivering all that is possible, *more* of the time.

[chickering9]

...the hardening of the hammers is a natural process to be done by playing the piano, no other way.

If the hammers were well-chosen for the piano, I would tend to agree with this.  I'm playing in a new set of Ronsen Wurzenfelt hammers (that I installed myself as I don't stop at just tuning myself) and loving the results as they're becoming played in.  Some techs are lacquering the lowest and highest octaves of those hammers on installation, but I'm finding playing them in is entirely enough.  (But if a piano was lacking in those octaves, lacquering might be necessary in some cases.)

[Rez]

I've gone as far as restringing one and hanging a complete set of new hammers and shanks (including assembly, repinning and weighing out) on another. 

Chickering,

You Are brave.  I've read a few books about restringing and it seems like a really big job.

Just curious, how long did it take to do the restringing?   In terms if difficulty did you find that putting on new strings is about as difficult as tuning or much more complicated?  I'm thinking just in terms of the restringing alone.  Pulling out the action, etc. is a whole different matter.  Did the sound greatly improve with new strings? Were you motivated by a do-it-yourself desire, or saving the few odd thousands of dollars that job would cost if done professionally? A little of both?

[chickering9]

Just curious, how long did it take to do the restringing?   In terms if difficulty did you find that putting on new strings is about as difficult as tuning or much more complicated?  I'm thinking just in terms of the restringing alone.  Pulling out the action, etc. is a whole different matter.  Did the sound greatly improve with new strings? Were you motivated by a do-it-yourself desire, or saving the few odd thousands of dollars that job would cost if done professionally? A little of both?

Restringing was a long single day, but I tend to work straight through on a job, whatever it takes.  Restringing is no more difficult than tuning, but no easier either.  The piano I restrung was a small grand with tubby bass strings and rather metallic-sounding treble, hence the desire to improve on that.  The sound did improve, but at the same time as restringing, I did a careful tuning and regulation and voicing, so it's hard to say how much to attribute to any one aspect.  My motivation for doing it myself was purely for the purpose of learning and when I'd finished all that, I sold that piano to the first person who looked at it after I placed an ad.  I'd learned what I wanted on that one and she was immediately pleased with the results.  That little grand was one I felt I could not really hurt but that had several positive attributes that suggested a little work might make it truly respectable.  And it was when I got done with it. 

And doing work yourself is not so expensive.  A set of hammers or a set of strings are not all that pricey.  It's the labor that gets expensive--but not unfairly so.  Techs earn what they get.  But as a semi-retired with time on my hands to putter, doing things myself in learning mode is a good way to pass my time.  But, I've always been inclined to do my own work on anything mechanical or electronic, from cars to TV repair or whatever.  But I grew up with a father who encouraged me to do such things and with whom I built airplanes summers when most kids were playing baseball.  It gives me a good excuse not to finish the great American novel or or start another oil painting to collect dust unfinished in the studio.  And sometimes the tech stuff is even a welcome diversion from playing when you find yourself on one of those plateaus of learning and another day's practice doesn't promise a break out.  And if you've done the work well, you have a better piano to show for the time and still have the thousands you'd have spent on hourly tech rates to spend on travel--or yet another piano  .