Piano Forum

Topic: Ghost stories  (Read 1481 times)

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2960
Ghost stories
on: April 26, 2021, 07:57:22 PM
A suite of improvised semi-miniatures, in four movements. More dark stuff.

My website - www.andrewwrightpianist.com
Info and samples from my first commercial album - https://youtu.be/IlRtSyPAVNU
My SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/andrew-wright-35

Offline ted

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4012
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #1 on: April 27, 2021, 06:37:10 AM
It must be an almost insuperable challenge to write a ghost story these days. A really good ghost story must somehow trick the reader, leading step by step from quotidian rationality into the deep caves of the psyche, finally inducing a scurrying back in desperation, a clinging to the comforts of reason and habit. M. R. James and Arthur Machen were masters of the genre, and let us not forget Algernon Blackwood, who is inclined to be underestimated these days. Modern tales of the supernatural seem to depend more or less on explicitly horrible events, violent scenes and unpleasant descriptions after the manner of much of Stephen King; good for making graphic, blockbuster movies for the masses but in my view they are not truly frightening at all.

Can the spirit of the ghost story exist in music ? Curiously, I was discussing this with our late friend, David April, in emails a few years ago. He asserted that the music of Frank Bridge, in particular, seemed to him replete with evil. I replied that, while not going that far, I agreed that much of his piano music reminded me of a seaside town out of season with mad Uncle Charlie locked in the attic. It is recorded that both Machen and James actually believed in the external existence of the supernatural, which they considered invariably evil and took pains to discount benign ghosts altogether.

So what can the modern, scientific but also artistic mind take from all this ? Probably a good deal when we consider the undoubted presence of Jung's shadow deep in every psyche. We ignore these manifestations lurking in the deep recesses of our minds at our peril but, brought to the conscious surface of an otherwise healthy mind, they lose their power to do serious harm and may indeed lead to greater self-understanding.

So after this circumlocution, Andrew, I say carry on playing these eldritch and numinous creations for us. 
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline kalospiano

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #2 on: April 27, 2021, 10:33:02 AM
you can't get out of this scary music streak anymore huh? :)  very nice stuff, particulary enjoyed the second movement

Offline ranjit

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1452
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #3 on: April 27, 2021, 10:42:49 AM
I'm listening to this in the middle of the night with the lights turned off. If I don't get nightmares, I'm going to assume you've failed. ;D

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2960
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #4 on: April 28, 2021, 03:56:03 PM
Thanks for the comments!

I'm vaguely in a bit of a late Liszt mood here: in particular the third segment is somewhat of a nod towards things like Nuages Gris and the Lugubre gondolas. The second 'movement's is probably the most accessible. I'm trying to experiment, primarily in the middle sections, with a sort of ambivalent tonality where I can argue that eg F# min, Bb min are more closely related than we would normally find in romantic piano music, and using semitone shifts in a manner to have a "floating tonality" which Wagner used late on and I think ultimately led to the breakdown of the tonal system, historically speaking.

Anyway that's a lot of theoretical quasi-musicology and hopefully I achieved the intended emotional aim of creating something a bit unsettling..
My website - www.andrewwrightpianist.com
Info and samples from my first commercial album - https://youtu.be/IlRtSyPAVNU
My SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/andrew-wright-35

Offline ted

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4012
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #5 on: April 29, 2021, 12:00:24 AM
Here’s a thought about Andrew’s harmonic speculation. Jazz pianists often talk about “changes” rather than absolute, isolated chords. Does the mind retain a brief aural impression of a sound analogous to persistence of vision with the retina ? Perhaps differences among musicians regarding what is called functional harmony simply reflect the degree of sound persistence in the listening mind ? To take Andrew’s example, the playing of the three minor chords on the augmented triad, say F#, Bb and D, in close succession does have a peculiarly striking effect, but far less so if I leave a gap of more than a few seconds between them. The freely improvising mind, therefore, is perhaps far more influenced by rapidly transient “changes” than is the calculating, structured mind of a composer.

Whether the aesthetic or emotional effect of a specific musical feature is universal or individual and why is a tricky question. Are tremolos and augmented chords universally mysterious and ominous in some sort of archetypal fashion, and Liszt “discovered” the fact ? Or do we just impose the reaction through exposure to Liszt’s personal associations and over a hundred years of commentary about it ?

Quite frankly I haven’t a clue, but it’s fun to conjecture about these things.

"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline goldentone

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1689
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #6 on: April 29, 2021, 09:51:44 AM
and using semitone shifts in a manner to have a "floating tonality" which Wagner used late on and I think ultimately led to the breakdown of the tonal system, historically speaking.

Ronde, on Wagner's floating tonality as you term it, how would you say that relates to Catoire's music?  His music contained, I believe, much polytonalism, and I much enjoy Catoire's music and unique idiom.
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2960
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #7 on: April 29, 2021, 09:56:44 AM
I think one difference between the harmonic structure I'm using and conventional harmonic progressions is that, eg the beginning of the second piece, while in a typical IV - V - I cadence all the voices move, I'm achieving continuity and managing to go between ostensibly unrelated chords by holding one or more voice, or by making a voice move along harmonic notes of the specific tonic the passage is nominally in. In a more non-theoretical context, I'd argue I'm getting more colour than I would with traditional fully tonal harmonies, and I like the flexibility. (Augmented chords are of course great for flexibility and modulation.)

Re tremolandi and affect: I think Liszt is mostly using them to add an orchestral sonority and the affect is probably dependent on context: Nuages Gris - ominous, Liebestod - added colour, for example. Beethoven is using them as a harmonic support and to provide the sensation of forward impetus, imo, in the Pathetique.

Augmented chords are probably more universal in their application, because the ear expects a resolution, thus they are by nature unsettling.
My website - www.andrewwrightpianist.com
Info and samples from my first commercial album - https://youtu.be/IlRtSyPAVNU
My SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/andrew-wright-35

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2960
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #8 on: April 29, 2021, 10:03:15 AM
Ronde, on Wagner's floating tonality as you term it, how would you say that relates to Catoire's music?  His music contained, I believe, much polytonalism, and I much enjoy Catoire's music and unique idiom.

I'm not really super familiar with Catoire's music. Sadly, yet another reason why we could do with Rachfan being around. We do know Catoire was a strong proponent of Wagner and from what I have heard I do sense Wagner harmonic influences.
My website - www.andrewwrightpianist.com
Info and samples from my first commercial album - https://youtu.be/IlRtSyPAVNU
My SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/andrew-wright-35

Offline ted

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4012
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #9 on: April 30, 2021, 01:47:51 AM
Re tremolandi and affect: I think Liszt is mostly using them to add an orchestral sonority and the affect is probably dependent on context: Nuages Gris - ominous, Liebestod - added colour, for example. Beethoven is using them as a harmonic support and to provide the sensation of forward impetus, imo, in the Pathetique.
Tremolos were also used a lot to good effect in stride and blues. I was playing a transcription with some in this morning and the syncopated or asynchronous ones are practically impossible to notate. You just have to listen to the recording and devise mechanisms for yourself.

Augmented chords are probably more universal in their application, because the ear expects a resolution, thus they are by nature unsettling.

My ear does not expect "resolutions" of any sort at any time so I suppose I should be wary of extrapolating generalisations in discussions like this one. My teacher did his best to impart these things to me but in the end realised it was futile. I could grasp it on the purely intellectual level, I could imitate it, that is easy, but not on the deeper personal plane of immediate aural response.

"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline goldentone

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1689
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #10 on: May 04, 2021, 09:39:20 AM
I certainly concur with you on the loss of Rachfan.

That makes sense that you would hear Wagner in Catoire's music.  Hamelin and Zassimova have promoted Catoire's music and injected him into the stream of the repertoire.

Here's a link to Hamelin playing Catoire.  I believe Rachfan played the set.

For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2960
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #11 on: May 04, 2021, 09:43:53 AM
Thanks for that: many years ago one of the finest pianists to grace this forum, ie Koji Attwood, posted this:



I really like the Etude-Fantastique.
My website - www.andrewwrightpianist.com
Info and samples from my first commercial album - https://youtu.be/IlRtSyPAVNU
My SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/andrew-wright-35

Offline kalospiano

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #12 on: May 04, 2021, 08:19:10 PM
Wow, no idea that Koji Attwood was participating in this forum! Had to think about that name for a while before finally remembering that I have his fantastic performance of Bortkiewicz's Ballade in one of my playlists.

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2960
Re: Ghost stories
Reply #13 on: May 04, 2021, 09:22:19 PM
He's not been here in ages, but indeed he did post some very memorable obscure Russian romanticism.
My website - www.andrewwrightpianist.com
Info and samples from my first commercial album - https://youtu.be/IlRtSyPAVNU
My SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/andrew-wright-35
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert