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Topic: Will learning Czerny enable you to play the hardest Chopin etudes? (Read 5168 times)

wildman

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Will learning Czerny enable you to play the hardest Chopin etudes?

on: June 28, 2021, 05:22:09 AM

I have been studying Chopin's most difficult study, the one in thirds, for around 2 months already and I am nowhere near the indicated tempo.

Frustrated, I was looking to simplify my repertoire to fix my technique.

My question is simple:

If I were to study Czerny's Op. 849, then Op. 299 then perhaps Op. 636 or Op. 740, will that make learning the hardest Chopin etudes a walk in the park?

Thanks.

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ranjit

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Re: Will learning Czerny enable you to play the hardest Chopin etudes?

Reply #1 on: June 28, 2021, 06:31:25 AM

A walk in the park? I highly doubt it. I've heard some people say that you need to learn a Chopin etude to train a Chopin etude.

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lostinidlewonder

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Re: Will learning Czerny enable you to play the hardest Chopin etudes?

Reply #2 on: June 28, 2021, 12:24:50 PM

If you had thorough mastery of all that Czerny it certainly would help you more so than not having it. The Chopin etude has specific movements in the RH which you just wont find in many peices at all. You need to play repertoire which uses similar ideas like Scrabin op8 no10, or look up exercises which target the technique like early on in Brahms 51 Exercises, or check etudes from Cramer Burlow.

I think you are setting yourself up for a world of pain if you explore the thirds technique with Chopin for the first time. You need to have thorough experience playing it successfully with other works.

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lelle

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Re: Will learning Czerny enable you to play the hardest Chopin etudes?

Reply #3 on: June 28, 2021, 11:27:01 PM

There are no guarantees that playing Czerny will inherently give you the technique needed for the Chopin Etudes. It's better to have a good foundation before tackling the Etudes than to not have it, but that foundation does not just come from playing pieces such as the Czerny Etudes - or other pieces you can develop your technique with - over many years, but from learning HOW to use your body to play efficiently. You might go through all the Czerny Etudes and still find yourself not coordinated enough to fly through the thirds Etude like a breeze. I'm also curious why you don't mention studying the easier Chopin Etudes, along with Czerny, before tackling the harder ones?

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caevon

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Re: Will learning Czerny enable you to play the hardest Chopin etudes?

Reply #4 on: June 29, 2021, 05:22:52 AM

Czerny does help to a degree, but I believe it highly depends on your situation. If you are someone who doesn't have a strong technique, Czerny might do you wonders for learning Chopin etudes. But if your technique is already mostly "there", Czerny may not do a lot for you. There's certainly no need to learn all of 849/299/636/740. If you really want to study them I would just pick some that are difficult from 740 and work on them. My teacher made me learn all of 849 and 299 when I was 10-12. It helped me a lot, but I'd say mostly because I'm a kid lol. If I was more skilled initially it probably wouldn't have improved my technique much at all.

I'd suggest working on easier Chopin etudes before the Thirds etude. That would help more than Czerny would, tbh. Besides if you're already feeling confident enough to go for Thirds then 849 and 299 is literally sightreading material at that point.

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lelle

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Re: Will learning Czerny enable you to play the hardest Chopin etudes?

Reply #5 on: July 06, 2021, 08:18:52 PM

I recall reading somewhere that even Czerny suggests that you shouldn't play all his Etudes, but rather use a few of them to develop your technique while also playing real pieces.

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ranjit

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Re: Will learning Czerny enable you to play the hardest Chopin etudes?

Reply #6 on: September 21, 2021, 05:53:58 PM

Quote from: caevon on June 29, 2021, 05:22:52 AM

Besides if you're already feeling confident enough to go for Thirds then 849 and 299 is literally sightreading material at that point.

Exactly. That's what people often don't understand, that once you have basic technique down pat, it becomes so trivially easy you don't even have to try. That said, of course there can be issues with higher level interpretation such as subtle unevenness or glaring phrasing issues which you have while playing easier material, which can surface in easier pieces even while you can play Chopin etudes.

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lelle

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Re: Will learning Czerny enable you to play the hardest Chopin etudes?

Reply #7 on: September 21, 2021, 10:16:46 PM

Quote from: ranjit on September 21, 2021, 05:53:58 PM

That said, of course there can be issues with higher level interpretation such as subtle unevenness or glaring phrasing issues which you have while playing easier material, which can surface in easier pieces even while you can play Chopin etudes.

This is more common than you might think in music universities and colleges, at least in my experience.

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